Harnesses in a standard 993 Carrera

[tertius]

I've decided I'd like to put a harness into my standard 993 Carrera, for track days and the 'ring basically.

I already have a bucket seat, however, the challenge is the rear mounting points.

From what I've read you shouldn't go straight from the seat to the rear seatbelt points as they are well below shoulder level, but you need a harness guide bar.

Or alternatively one of these, the delightfully named Brey-Krause Harness Truss, which will allo me to attach the harness directly to this thing (I can't bring myself to say it again) and not mess about with either a guide bar, or the back seat belts (which I need to keep, btw).

The bad news, its £395 + VAT! so before I shell out does anyone have any experience with these?

Also what harness should I buy? Does it matter? Are all FIA/MSA approved harnesses the same?

[poon]

harness bar or rollcage is the only way to go.

there is a brey krause for sale in the classifieds I think

[clubsport]

Here it is;

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/220934.htm

Personally I would not install a harness and buucket in a car without some form of cage....a; you might get trapped in the car if it flips and b; you will no doubt be driving the car quicker with a harness etc...so perhaps there is more chance a cage may be needed than when you were previously using just seatbelts....Also note the reason the guy is selling the harness bar.

[graeme36s]

clubsport said:

Here it is;

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/220934.htm

Personally I would not install a harness and buucket in a car without some form of cage....a; you might get trapped in the car if it flips and b; you will no doubt be driving the car quicker with a harness etc...so perhaps there is more chance a cage may be needed than when you were previously using just seatbelts....Also note the reason the guy is selling the harness bar.

Any view on just how strong they are. I know Fearnsy would like me to be drilling and welding with Tony Littlejohn's help but I really do not think I could bring myself to do it.

[tertius]

But that ad is for a harness guide bar, not a harness truss. The guide bar is only for routing the harnesses appropriately to the mount points in the rear, you shouldn't actually attach the harnesses to it.. The B-K harness truss (follow my link to the Brey Krause website) is strong enough to attach the harnesses to directly, and has been certified as such ... not quite sure what the certification entails, but there you go ...

[ACEparts_com]

graeme36s said:

Any view on just how strong they are. I know Fearnsy would like me to be drilling and welding with Tony Littlejohn's help but I really do not think I could bring myself to do it.

Bit off topic but for some reason I was thinking about Tony Littlejohn today! Where is he? What's he up to? He took me for my first fast trip in my Porker

Edited by ACEparts_com on Friday 17th August 01:47

[robh964]

I attached my harnesses in the 964 to the rear seat belt mounting points and bought a harness 'guide' bar from a place in the states called stable energies. It fixes to the b pillar in place of the original belts (these can then be hung from the bar)

As previously posted this only guide the harnesses into the correct position for putting through/over the seats and should not be used to attach the harnesses to.

Paid roughly around £110 including shipping.

Rob

[robmug]

I use the Brey-Krause Harness Truss (the more expensive option, but the one that the harnesses attach to.)

I've found it to be excellent. Positions the harnesses perfectly, and because they are attahed to the truss, installing & removing is very easy. 10 mins really before each trackday.

Interesting point about the full cage though; but it seems counter-intuitive; it IS safer with harnesses; it's safer still with a cage, but not having a cage soyld not be the reason to not fit harnesses.

[dumbfunk]

The "no harnesses without a roll cage" rule really applies the most to convertible vehicles right?


dumbfunk

[clubsport]

dumbfunk said:

The "no harnesses without a roll cage" rule really applies the most to convertible vehicles right?


dumbfunk

most?....you are right, if the car were to flip, it would be a luxury to have a metal roof cave in on you while you were strapped in as opposed to your head meeting the tarmac in a droptop....Personally I would prefer to increase my chances of survival in either scenario.

Edited by clubsport on Friday 17th August 11:51

[tertius]

robmug said:

I use the Brey-Krause Harness Truss (the more expensive option, but the one that the harnesses attach to.)

I've found it to be excellent. Positions the harnesses perfectly, and because they are attahed to the truss, installing & removing is very easy. 10 mins really before each trackday.

Interesting point about the full cage though; but it seems counter-intuitive; it IS safer with harnesses; it's safer still with a cage, but not having a cage soyld not be the reason to not fit harnesses.

Where did you get it?

Having looked around and mailed some suppliers I can get it in the US for c. USD550 (incl. US shipping) which makes GBP395+shipping+VAT a bit extortionate ...

Re. the safety question, it doesn't seem quite black and white to me: in many situations you will be better with harnesses than a standard 3-point belt; in some (I would estimate smaller percentage) situations you may be worse off - but I would have thought in most cases you will be safer with than without.

[robh964]

In many situations yes, you would be safer with a harness. ie front and rear impact.
As clubsport said, if you rolled the car the roof could cave in and you would be strapped upright in the car with a harness with a lot less room for movement on the point of rolling than with a 3 point belt.

[robmug]

I got mine from Brey Krause in the USA.

Ignoring the safety aspect for a moment - the big advantage of wearing harnesses is that you can concentrate on driving rather than on hanging on. It makes a huge difference, especially under braking. Allows you to relax the grip on the steering wheel too.

[graeme36s]

ACEparts_com said:

graeme36s said:

Any view on just how strong they are. I know Fearnsy would like me to be drilling and welding with Tony Littlejohn's help but I really do not think I could bring myself to do it.

Bit off topic but for some reason I was thinking about Tony Littlejohn today! Where is he? What's he up to? He took me for my first fast trip in my Porker

Edited by ACEparts_com on Friday 17th August 01:47

I reckon the proper harness bracketry is the way to go. Did not realise that it was to guide the harnesses only. From what I understand the 993 GT2 does not have the normal seat belt mounts etc. in the rear so they cannot be utilised. I can't bring myself to put a cage in it although that is the most sensible thing to do but it is really out of the question. Cannot even fit six point harnesses with the standard factory leather race seats as there is no provion for the crutch strap and I'm not going to cut a hole in the seat base. Clubsport's point is valid but if I manage to stick the thing on its roof I better well be dead in the car as the missus will defo make bloody sure I was soon after.
Not really sure what Tony is up to other than if you want a cage fabricated and fitted I am told he really is the man to do the job. I knew him when he used to race a 924S in Class 3 of the Cup. He hit so many people that year we all swore blind it was because he could not see over the steering wheel