993 Turbo S v 997GT3

[997GT3]

Chalk and cheese or not?

How would prices compare?

How does performances compare?

Which is more desirable?

Personal preferences are bound to come into the equation but does anyone wish to start the ball rolling on comparing these two Porsche icons?

[Silver993tt]

well, for me the 997 GT3 will be attractive in about 2 years time when prices are around £40k. That would be 50% depreciation after 3 years which would be the norm for a modern Porsche. I think the current bubble for the GT3 as a new model has burst. It's a great car but there'll be quite a few for sale in about 12 months time IMO.

[anonymous-user]

Silver993tt said:

well, for me the 997 GT3 will be attractive in about 2 years time when prices are around £40k. That would be 50% depreciation after 3 years which would be the norm for a modern Porsche. I think the current bubble for the GT3 as a new model has burst. It's a great car but there'll be quite a few for sale in about 12 months time IMO.

Yes becasue all 996 MK2 GT3's are 40k

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 23 August 07:12

[Silver993tt]

Paul_D_996RS said:

Silver993tt said:

well, for me the 997 GT3 will be attractive in about 2 years time when prices are around £40k. That would be 50% depreciation after 3 years which would be the norm for a modern Porsche. I think the current bubble for the GT3 as a new model has burst. It's a great car but there'll be quite a few for sale in about 12 months time IMO.

Yes becasue all 996 MK2 GT3's are 40k

Edited by Paul_D_996RS on Thursday 23 August 07:12

Well, clearly not all GT3s will be around £40k (and I never stated that they would) but there are a few and with a bit of haggling they will be close. You can even get a MK1 in the £30s

http://www.carandclassic.com/car/C22763?pt=pf
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/224449.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/224949.htm

Why won't the 997 GT3 be the same in a couple of years? Are they making less of them?

[Rob_R]

OK, lets start off by saying which one I'd rather have; the 997 GT3. Hands down.

The 993 has its plus points, exciting power, usability, looks, residual value. But, in terms of driving experience the GT3 is the better of the two. It has a nicer engine note, better chassis, a far better driving position, brakes that just won't quit and it would be more fun on track. Tyres are costly for GT3 though.

[7357]

Paul_D_996RS said:

Silver993tt said:

well, for me the 997 GT3 will be attractive in about 2 years time when prices are around £40k. That would be 50% depreciation after 3 years which would be the norm for a modern Porsche. I think the current bubble for the GT3 as a new model has burst. It's a great car but there'll be quite a few for sale in about 12 months time IMO.

Yes becasue all 996 MK2 GT3's are 40k

Edited by Paul_D_996RS on Thursday 23 August 07:12

I can't see GT3's MK1-2 going under 40k (nice RHD's) ever !


As fot the topic, money must come into it.. GT3 997 - 100k+
993 TT - 60-70k (for a nice one)

As well as use of the car !

Edited by 7357 on Thursday 23 August 09:33

[oola]

Silver993tt said:

Paul_D_996RS said:

Silver993tt said:

well, for me the 997 GT3 will be attractive in about 2 years time when prices are around £40k. That would be 50% depreciation after 3 years which would be the norm for a modern Porsche. I think the current bubble for the GT3 as a new model has burst. It's a great car but there'll be quite a few for sale in about 12 months time IMO.

Yes becasue all 996 MK2 GT3's are 40k

Edited by Paul_D_996RS on Thursday 23 August 07:12

Well, clearly not all GT3s will be around £40k (and I never stated that they would) but there are a few and with a bit of haggling they will be close. You can even get a MK1 in the £30s

http://www.carandclassic.com/car/C22763?pt=pf
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/224449.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/224949.htm

Why won't the 997 GT3 be the same in a couple of years? Are they making less of them?

Sorry but thats garbage!! The Mk1 GT3's in their £30k's are actually almost £40k (as you say, with haggling £35k) and that is taking into consideration that those cars were registered around 1999 - 2000, so are now 7 or 8 years old. So I dont see that early 997 GT3's will be worth half of their original value (you stated £40k) in just two years time at which point they'll be 3 years old (at the very most)?

If were to take the Mk1 GT3 and how its retained its value, then the cheapest early cars will be £40k-ish in another 7 or 8 years time .... 2013 - 2014...

[7357]

oola said:

If were to take the Mk1 GT3 and how its retained its value, then the cheapest early cars will be £40k-ish in another 7 or 8 years time .... 2013 - 2014...

And by then the MK1 will be 65k+..

[oola]

7357 said:

oola said:

If were to take the Mk1 GT3 and how its retained its value, then the cheapest early cars will be £40k-ish in another 7 or 8 years time .... 2013 - 2014...

And by then the MK1 will be 65k+..

Yep!

[nbetts]

Wot no KayC???

any second now.... surely...?

[kayc]

nbetts said:

Wot no KayC???

any second now.... surely...?

Not a lot to add ..997 gt3 lovely car built by a mass produced manafacturer that makes bigger profits than any other maker(by cutting quality and increasing production)..993tt built by a company hell-bent at producing the best car they could to the detriment of the company(nearly going bust)..simple question..does the 997gt3/997tt trounce its competitors now like the 993tt did when it was launched 12 years ago?In its day the 993tt was a revelation considering the technology available ,imo the 997gt3/997tt's are not a huge step forward,and in some respects(e.g build quality) a step backwards.

[flemke]

997GT3 said:

Chalk and cheese or not?

How would prices compare?

How does performances compare?

Which is more desirable?

Personal preferences are bound to come into the equation but does anyone wish to start the ball rolling on comparing these two Porsche icons?

Have driven >50,000 mi in both.

Chalk and cheese is putting it mildly.

T-S is really a sporty GT.

Performance-wise, the lower weight and superior suspension of the GT3 make it quicker around a circuit.
In a straight line, the T-S feels quicker, but there's not a lot in it. The power delivery of the two is different: the GT3's is edgier, whilst the T-S's has more depth to it, perhaps as a result of the heavier rotating masses.

Ride quality of both isn't the greatest, although the GT3's is probably a bit worse.

T-S has some conveniences that the GT3 lacks, and there is the odd time when it's good to have a simulacrum of a rear seat.

GT3's steering is more communicative.

GT3's interior is rubbish, whilst the T-S's is lovely - one of the nicest things about the car.

T-S is good in the wet, although the stiffness of suspension compromises that some. GT3 in the wet you probably know about already.

Build quality of T-S is proper, bank vault-style Porsche. Build quality of GT3 is a Wedeking Special, although they rarely break down.

Being the more modern, the GT3 is the "better" car relative to its purpose, but the T-S always feels a somewhat special.
When was the last time that you saw a T-S on the road? I think that 31 were sold in the UK in RHD.
In contrast, how many hundreds of GT3s have been brought in already?

[IMI A]

kayc said:

nbetts said:

Wot no KayC???

any second now.... surely...?

Not a lot to add ..997 gt3 lovely car built by a mass produced manafacturer that makes bigger profits than any other maker(by cutting quality and increasing production)..993tt built by a company hell-bent at producing the best car they could to the detriment of the company(nearly going bust)..simple question..does the 997gt3/997tt trounce its competitors now like the 993tt did when it was launched 12 years ago?In its day the 993tt was a revelation considering the technology available ,imo the 997gt3/997tt's are not a huge step forward,and in some respects(e.g build quality) a step backwards.

After a 959 the 993tt S is my favourite car by a mile but its not better made than any 997. See all the £10k + engine rebuilds 993 tt owners regularly go through at circa 50-60k miles and generally v.high servicing costs. In terms of performance to frugality 997GT3/TT light years ahead of competition. In fact Porsche is using 997 Gt2 comparitive frugality to competition as one of its main selling points! In terms of performance i can promise you that an F430, Gallordo, Murcielago, 993tt, DB9, Vantage won't stay in the same picture as a 997tt from A to B. There were japanese cars around in 1995 scooby, Mits Evo xi, Skyline R33 and various Fezzas that would have stayed in touch with a 993 tt hence not sure how light years anhead you think it was. If you mentioned the 959/F40 from 10 yrs previously being light years ahead I'd understand but 993 tt not such a revelation. Trick is to have all of them in your garage!

[thegoose]

IMI A said:

Trick is to have all of them in your garage!

See Flemke, above...

[graeme36s]

+1
just would not want the 4WD

[997GT3]

Some interesting replies here, thanks chaps.

AFAIK there will be 230 ish 997 GT3 Mk1's, around half the number compared to the 996 GT3. So I agree that values may stay strong for some time (hopefully).

With only 31 RHD Turbo 4S's what values are they at the moment?

I wasn't aware of the engine rebuild problems with Turbo 4's - I thought ALL 993 engines were near bullet-proof!

My thinking was that one could have a 993 Turbo S for the same price as a 997GT3 or have a standard Turbo 4 + £20-30k cash for a 997GT3.

So then a Turbo 4 may be the more popular choice if performances are similar to that of the GT3.

Which would you have?

[kayc]

IMI A said:

kayc said:

nbetts said:

Wot no KayC???

any second now.... surely...?

Not a lot to add ..997 gt3 lovely car built by a mass produced manafacturer that makes bigger profits than any other maker(by cutting quality and increasing production)..993tt built by a company hell-bent at producing the best car they could to the detriment of the company(nearly going bust)..simple question..does the 997gt3/997tt trounce its competitors now like the 993tt did when it was launched 12 years ago?In its day the 993tt was a revelation considering the technology available ,imo the 997gt3/997tt's are not a huge step forward,and in some respects(e.g build quality) a step backwards.

After a 959 the 993tt S is my favourite car by a mile but its not better made than any 997. See all the £10k + engine rebuilds 993 tt owners regularly go through at circa 50-60k miles and generally v.high servicing costs. In terms of performance to frugality 997GT3/TT light years ahead of competition. In fact Porsche is using 997 Gt2 comparitive frugality to competition as one of its main selling points! In terms of performance i can promise you that an F430, Gallordo, Murcielago, 993tt, DB9, Vantage won't stay in the same picture as a 997tt from A to B. There were japanese cars around in 1995 scooby, Mits Evo xi, Skyline R33 and various Fezzas that would have stayed in touch with a 993 tt hence not sure how light years anhead you think it was. If you mentioned the 959/F40 from 10 yrs previously being light years ahead I'd understand but 993 tt not such a revelation. Trick is to have all of them in your garage!

Not better made than a 997?Sorry i think you need to look at both cars back-to-back...i would suggest that a 997 has poorer build quality than an Audi or BMW,i dont recall ANY manafacturer in 1995/6/7 producing a better made car than Porsche!

[flemke]

997GT3 said:

Some interesting replies here, thanks chaps.

AFAIK there will be 230 ish 997 GT3 Mk1's, around half the number compared to the 996 GT3. So I agree that values may stay strong for some time (hopefully).

With only 31 RHD Turbo 4S's what values are they at the moment?

I wasn't aware of the engine rebuild problems with Turbo 4's - I thought ALL 993 engines were near bullet-proof!

My thinking was that one could have a 993 Turbo S for the same price as a 997GT3 or have a standard Turbo 4 + £20-30k cash for a 997GT3.

A 993 Turbo S will definitely cost you less than a 997 GT3.

[IMI A]

kayc said:

IMI A said:

kayc said:

nbetts said:

Wot no KayC???

any second now.... surely...?

Not a lot to add ..997 gt3 lovely car built by a mass produced manafacturer that makes bigger profits than any other maker(by cutting quality and increasing production)..993tt built by a company hell-bent at producing the best car they could to the detriment of the company(nearly going bust)..simple question..does the 997gt3/997tt trounce its competitors now like the 993tt did when it was launched 12 years ago?In its day the 993tt was a revelation considering the technology available ,imo the 997gt3/997tt's are not a huge step forward,and in some respects(e.g build quality) a step backwards.

After a 959 the 993tt S is my favourite car by a mile but its not better made than any 997. See all the £10k + engine rebuilds 993 tt owners regularly go through at circa 50-60k miles and generally v.high servicing costs. In terms of performance to frugality 997GT3/TT light years ahead of competition. In fact Porsche is using 997 Gt2 comparitive frugality to competition as one of its main selling points! In terms of performance i can promise you that an F430, Gallordo, Murcielago, 993tt, DB9, Vantage won't stay in the same picture as a 997tt from A to B. There were japanese cars around in 1995 scooby, Mits Evo xi, Skyline R33 and various Fezzas that would have stayed in touch with a 993 tt hence not sure how light years anhead you think it was. If you mentioned the 959/F40 from 10 yrs previously being light years ahead I'd understand but 993 tt not such a revelation. Trick is to have all of them in your garage!

Not better made than a 997?Sorry i think you need to look at both cars back-to-back...i would suggest that a 997 has poorer build quality than an Audi or BMW,i dont recall ANY manafacturer in 1995/6/7 producing a better made car than Porsche!

decent interior on audi or bmw does not mean decent build quality. Porsche has made the 997 everything the 996 wasn't (not that 996 is a bad car). If 993tt is so bullet proof why the crazy running costs? why rear window shattering on wide body cars for absolutely no reason? why the rattling from bits and pieces inside the roof etc etc. come on do me a favour 90's tech v 2007. you're kidding!?

Edited by IMI A on Friday 24th August 19:44

Edited by IMI A on Friday 24th August 19:46

[flemke]

IMI A said:

If 993tt is so bullet proof why the crazy running costs? why rear window shattering on wide body cars for absolutely no reason? why the rattling from bits and pieces inside the roof etc etc. come on do me a favour 90's tech v 2007. you're kidding!?

Which must be why a 993GT2 is worth twice what a 996GT2 is worth. It's not only about tech, you know.
If you think that the 997 GT3 or RS is destined to be a classic, you might want to think again. They are very effective but very charmless machines.

The next time that you're telling Wedeking how great his new technology is, would you ask him why he was so mean that he couldn't even put door pockets in the 997GT3?