Discussion
If you are looking at the C2 versions of both cars, then the 993 does have better handling. It depends what you are looking to use it for?
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Arguable that a 993 handles better.....
993 and 964 are very similar cars, other than the cosmetic parts you will get:
Different rear suspension.
6 speed box.
Varioram on later models.
As a rule better wheels, and cup mirrors, smooth door handles out of the box.
Slightly updated interior, bit late LHD 964's had the same dash, only difference is door cards and seats.
Hood on cabrio slightly different (no better just different)
Slightly different spoiler (flat as opposed to kicked up)
Sure I've missed something but they are the big differences, reliability is a nonsense both cars are excellent, 964's are of course older now, but then again 993's are no spring chickens, 964's don't seem to knock out suspension like 993's, both cars will leak oil unless you are really really lucky as they both share the same engine and oil system design, the 964 is slightly more expensive to service due to manual tappets, apparently the engine is stronger though due to this (I really don't think it makes enough of a difference unless tuning the car).
I guess it comes down to which look you prefer and budget, you will get an amazing 964 for the price of a rough/average 993, and get more or less as much for your money, but if you love the 993 look buy a 993, personally when I bought my 964 I wanted a car with the 911 looks, but modern refinements and it has been perfect for me, 20-40k per year with no breakdowns, I didn't see the point in spending an extra 10K for a 6 speed box and updated rear suspension, but you see the 993 looks didn't do it for me.
If I was to do it all again in the current climate a 993 would be more tempting than last time, not due to upgrades over 964 or looks per say but age and mileage, but you must remember I need a car to be a daily driver, so mileage and age are a bit more important to me.
Incidentally on track the two cars are pretty well matched, it's down to driver at that sort of level.
Oh and by the way the 993 is not easier or cheaper to fix at all as most parts are the same/similar between both cars. The commonly quoted problems from anti 964 people are: DME relay, Dual Mass flywheel, Oil Leaks, Cylinder head gaskets.
DME relay is suffered from all cars of same age including 993, I have never had one fail but keep a spare anyway (£20 and 30 secs to change in fuse box)
Dual mass flywheel they sorted this problem out, I doubt there is a car out there with a dodgy one anymore, they do wear out with age and mileage but so does the 993, and any other car with them fitted, they don't fail early anymore.
Oil leaks, 993 and 964 both suffer. Probably 993 is slightly better, but then again having tightened up my unions my 964 doesn't leak at all, go figure.
Head gaskets, only affect the very early cars, just look out for plastic inlet manifolds, most cars have been sorted under warranty anyway.
993 and 964 are very similar cars, other than the cosmetic parts you will get:
Different rear suspension.
6 speed box.
Varioram on later models.
As a rule better wheels, and cup mirrors, smooth door handles out of the box.
Slightly updated interior, bit late LHD 964's had the same dash, only difference is door cards and seats.
Hood on cabrio slightly different (no better just different)
Slightly different spoiler (flat as opposed to kicked up)
Sure I've missed something but they are the big differences, reliability is a nonsense both cars are excellent, 964's are of course older now, but then again 993's are no spring chickens, 964's don't seem to knock out suspension like 993's, both cars will leak oil unless you are really really lucky as they both share the same engine and oil system design, the 964 is slightly more expensive to service due to manual tappets, apparently the engine is stronger though due to this (I really don't think it makes enough of a difference unless tuning the car).
I guess it comes down to which look you prefer and budget, you will get an amazing 964 for the price of a rough/average 993, and get more or less as much for your money, but if you love the 993 look buy a 993, personally when I bought my 964 I wanted a car with the 911 looks, but modern refinements and it has been perfect for me, 20-40k per year with no breakdowns, I didn't see the point in spending an extra 10K for a 6 speed box and updated rear suspension, but you see the 993 looks didn't do it for me.
If I was to do it all again in the current climate a 993 would be more tempting than last time, not due to upgrades over 964 or looks per say but age and mileage, but you must remember I need a car to be a daily driver, so mileage and age are a bit more important to me.
Incidentally on track the two cars are pretty well matched, it's down to driver at that sort of level.
Oh and by the way the 993 is not easier or cheaper to fix at all as most parts are the same/similar between both cars. The commonly quoted problems from anti 964 people are: DME relay, Dual Mass flywheel, Oil Leaks, Cylinder head gaskets.
DME relay is suffered from all cars of same age including 993, I have never had one fail but keep a spare anyway (£20 and 30 secs to change in fuse box)
Dual mass flywheel they sorted this problem out, I doubt there is a car out there with a dodgy one anymore, they do wear out with age and mileage but so does the 993, and any other car with them fitted, they don't fail early anymore.
Oil leaks, 993 and 964 both suffer. Probably 993 is slightly better, but then again having tightened up my unions my 964 doesn't leak at all, go figure.
Head gaskets, only affect the very early cars, just look out for plastic inlet manifolds, most cars have been sorted under warranty anyway.
Edited by wildoliver on Friday 24th August 10:50
Deutscher said:
993 is:
- better looking
- better handling
- more reliable
- easier and cheaper to fix (for most things)
- an appreciating classic
No contest.
1 - No- better looking
- better handling
- more reliable
- easier and cheaper to fix (for most things)
- an appreciating classic
No contest.
2 - Yes
3 - Can't see why that is
4 - Servicing is cheaper for the 993 but have you seen the bill for getting a beard removed from the electric window mechanism?
5 - Both are.
tobster said:
The 964 will normally cost double to service than a 993. I think this is due to it being more labour intensive due to the 964 not having self adjusting valves or some other milarky !!
Untrue; the only difference is valve clearances, so this is about £50-100 more (depending on labour rates)every 12,000 miles. Everything else is pretty much the same.Edited by robmug on Friday 24th August 10:54
Deutscher said:
993 is:
- better looking
- better handling
- more reliable
- easier and cheaper to fix (for most things)
- an appreciating classic
No contest.
993 is also- better looking
- better handling
- more reliable
- easier and cheaper to fix (for most things)
- an appreciating classic
No contest.
- Over priced
- Over rated
- Looks like the b**tard child of a 968 and a proper 911
Funny how we all have different tastes. Agree with no contest, 964 everytime
Don't think insults are required......
We all like different things, I mean come on I'm considering changing to a coxster!
Fact is the 993 is basically an updated 964, they improved the car but also at the end of the day a 993 won't do anything a 964 won't, sure the 6 speed box is nice to have and the door cards are a bit nicer, the rear suspension doesn't do anything for me at all as I think 964's handle very well, and the 993 engine only sticks out 22 horse more.
Go and look at a load of cars and decide if the differences are worth the mark up.
By the way if you are off on a test drive mission include a LHD in your selection, you may well like it, they have a much nicer seating position than RHD.
We all like different things, I mean come on I'm considering changing to a coxster!
Fact is the 993 is basically an updated 964, they improved the car but also at the end of the day a 993 won't do anything a 964 won't, sure the 6 speed box is nice to have and the door cards are a bit nicer, the rear suspension doesn't do anything for me at all as I think 964's handle very well, and the 993 engine only sticks out 22 horse more.
Go and look at a load of cars and decide if the differences are worth the mark up.
By the way if you are off on a test drive mission include a LHD in your selection, you may well like it, they have a much nicer seating position than RHD.
Bluey Green said:
Interesting how anti-993 comments from 996 and 964 owners tend to be quite bitter yet it rarely happens the other way round.
Its simple really..all the air cooled Porsches drive badly compared to modern cars..the 993 the least of a bad bunch..after that Porsche decided to compete with run-of-the mill companies and produce shitloads of easy to drive averagely built cars at inflated prices.Bottom-line is the newer a Porsche is the better/easier it is to drive...and the worse it is made.
kayc said:
Bluey Green said:
Interesting how anti-993 comments from 996 and 964 owners tend to be quite bitter yet it rarely happens the other way round.
Its simple really..all the air cooled Porsches drive badly compared to modern cars..the 993 the least of a bad bunch..after that Porsche decided to compete with run-of-the mill companies and produce shitloads of easy to drive averagely built cars at inflated prices.Bottom-line is the newer a Porsche is the better/easier it is to drive...and the worse it is made.Firstly I will say I like 993's, just not 100% I see the advantage for the extra cash.
While I agree a 996 is an easier car to drive quickly than a 964/993 or other air cooled Porsche, to infer they drive badly is boll*cks!!! Not being funny but you must be the only person out there who thinks air cooled cars drive badly? They are noiser yes, a bit harsher maybe, no harder for every day driving though, handling, acceleration, braking are all awesome, bad driving? I suggest you look at the driver sir not the car.
I do freely agree however build quality probably hit its peak on the 993 and has been on freefall since, but thats where the profit is coming from.
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