How do 993 & 964 compare to ealier 911's to drive?
Discussion
Hi,
Just trying to decide between the following:
1. Exige S for weekend road use & occasional track day
2. 911 (not sure what model, prob 964) + cheap Westfield so that I can use the 911 for road & have a 'track slag' in order not to risk the 911 on track.
If going the 911 route I would want to buy a really nice example & take a longer term view re ownership, hence not wanting to risk it on track.
I test drove an early ('79) 911 today that has had a lot of money spent turning it into a 964 RS replica - all new genuine panels, 3.6 engine (late 964 type - rebuilt 30k ago), single mass flywheel etc. nice coil-over suspension set up, all new 993 turbo brakes.
-looked like a really nice example, & drove very nicely too. I really loved the non assisted steering - absolutely sublime feedback through the wheel. Lots of communication, but without 'kick back'. It had a (new) 964 RS clutch, which was REALLY heavy - that was the only thing I wasn't too keen on.
Engine had lots of torque & the car was 'fairly quick' + sounded fantastic, as all air cooled 911's do.
However, I have not yest driven any newer variants e.g. 'proper' 964s & 993s with power steering etc. How do the later cars 'feel' to drive compared to the early cars? I have been in a 996 which in my opinion was too refined. At the moment, I'm thinking that what I'm after ideally is a lightweight trim 911 -either 3.2 carrera (G50) or 964 C2.
I suppose I'm really hankering after a genuine 964 RS, but can't quite afford one (+ not too keen on LHD).
Anyway, now I've driven an early car can anyone tell me:
-How different is the clutch in the 'normal' 964 + 993s? - is the 993 clutch a lot lighter? I found the 964RS clutch v.heavy
-How different is the power steering in the 964 & 993 compared to the early cars. Personally I didn't find the non assisted steering heavy, thought it was spot on.
-How different is the gear change in the 6 speed 993 compared to early cars? Personally I found the G50 box a little notchy, but 'ok'.
-Are the 993's much more refined than the early cars? (don't want anything too refined!)
I will try & drive a 993 C2 (6 speed) when I get a chance, but just interested in peoples opinions on here...
BTW, also drove an Exige N/A & Exige S today - liked the super charged version - very fast & 'lively'! - so light weight combined with wide tyres that it tramlined badly on 'non perfect' roads - I would imagine quite a full on track day car. Maybe I should get one of these for the next couple of years & then sell it/buy a nice 911 for a 'keeper'
Just trying to decide between the following:
1. Exige S for weekend road use & occasional track day
2. 911 (not sure what model, prob 964) + cheap Westfield so that I can use the 911 for road & have a 'track slag' in order not to risk the 911 on track.
If going the 911 route I would want to buy a really nice example & take a longer term view re ownership, hence not wanting to risk it on track.
I test drove an early ('79) 911 today that has had a lot of money spent turning it into a 964 RS replica - all new genuine panels, 3.6 engine (late 964 type - rebuilt 30k ago), single mass flywheel etc. nice coil-over suspension set up, all new 993 turbo brakes.
-looked like a really nice example, & drove very nicely too. I really loved the non assisted steering - absolutely sublime feedback through the wheel. Lots of communication, but without 'kick back'. It had a (new) 964 RS clutch, which was REALLY heavy - that was the only thing I wasn't too keen on.
Engine had lots of torque & the car was 'fairly quick' + sounded fantastic, as all air cooled 911's do.
However, I have not yest driven any newer variants e.g. 'proper' 964s & 993s with power steering etc. How do the later cars 'feel' to drive compared to the early cars? I have been in a 996 which in my opinion was too refined. At the moment, I'm thinking that what I'm after ideally is a lightweight trim 911 -either 3.2 carrera (G50) or 964 C2.
I suppose I'm really hankering after a genuine 964 RS, but can't quite afford one (+ not too keen on LHD).
Anyway, now I've driven an early car can anyone tell me:
-How different is the clutch in the 'normal' 964 + 993s? - is the 993 clutch a lot lighter? I found the 964RS clutch v.heavy
-How different is the power steering in the 964 & 993 compared to the early cars. Personally I didn't find the non assisted steering heavy, thought it was spot on.
-How different is the gear change in the 6 speed 993 compared to early cars? Personally I found the G50 box a little notchy, but 'ok'.
-Are the 993's much more refined than the early cars? (don't want anything too refined!)
I will try & drive a 993 C2 (6 speed) when I get a chance, but just interested in peoples opinions on here...
BTW, also drove an Exige N/A & Exige S today - liked the super charged version - very fast & 'lively'! - so light weight combined with wide tyres that it tramlined badly on 'non perfect' roads - I would imagine quite a full on track day car. Maybe I should get one of these for the next couple of years & then sell it/buy a nice 911 for a 'keeper'
I've only driven 964s, so can't really comment on differences between this and other models. However, the clutch should not feel heavy, particularly on a standard C2 (I had a RHD C2, now a LHD RS Cup Car) - even in the cup car I don't think it's that bad. This is usually a sign that the clutch is going, or something wrong in the clutch hydraulics.
The power steering is very unobtrusive, you still get the feedback etc., but just don't have to work so hard at low speed. At times, I'd get out of the cup and into the C2 and be glad of the PS!
The G50 box is pretty good, but you can't rush the shifts - not like a modern Jap box.
A 993 and 964 should feel pretty similar to drive - main differences are the rear suspension, slightly nore power and one more gear.
The power steering is very unobtrusive, you still get the feedback etc., but just don't have to work so hard at low speed. At times, I'd get out of the cup and into the C2 and be glad of the PS!
The G50 box is pretty good, but you can't rush the shifts - not like a modern Jap box.
A 993 and 964 should feel pretty similar to drive - main differences are the rear suspension, slightly nore power and one more gear.
Thanks for that Ian.
Hmm, the car I have been looking at is supposed to have had a new RS clutch. I'll have to see if there is any proof as to how recently...
The biting point was fine & the action smooth + no slip, or judder.
The car has been sitting for quite some time, so maybe could be to do with this?
Hmm, the car I have been looking at is supposed to have had a new RS clutch. I'll have to see if there is any proof as to how recently...
The biting point was fine & the action smooth + no slip, or judder.
The car has been sitting for quite some time, so maybe could be to do with this?
The 964 RS clutch is not heavy! It is hydraulic so not heavy at all.
The Pre 87 911s used a diret cable clutch and spring. The 915 box as it is know is very heavy in comparison to newer g50 cars.
I suspect you are being told porkies. It may be a old cable clutch fitted. The RS clutch is sigle flywheel rather than the dual type fitted to C2 & C4s. This means you have to be more careful in traffic as it is a bit less forgiving on take up.
The Cup car may have a sintered clutch fitted like the Moo3 cars. Then it would be very difficult to slip the clutch in traffic.
I have driven all of the above and if the clutch is heavy it is not genuine RS.
The Pre 87 911s used a diret cable clutch and spring. The 915 box as it is know is very heavy in comparison to newer g50 cars.
I suspect you are being told porkies. It may be a old cable clutch fitted. The RS clutch is sigle flywheel rather than the dual type fitted to C2 & C4s. This means you have to be more careful in traffic as it is a bit less forgiving on take up.
The Cup car may have a sintered clutch fitted like the Moo3 cars. Then it would be very difficult to slip the clutch in traffic.
I have driven all of the above and if the clutch is heavy it is not genuine RS.
Yes, that's the one in the pic - is v.nice condition.
Hmm, perhaps I'll buy an Exige S for a couple of years & do some more track days etc. & then when I've had enough, sell it & spend some time tracking down the right 911 for me then... Probably a late 964 C2/low miles etc. or an '88/'89 Clubsport if one were to come up. But more time to think about it, & perhaps drive a few between now & then to build up an exact picture of what I want. With a 911, I want to 'buy the right one, & buy once'/keep it for some years, rather than buying perhaps the wrong one/throwing loads of money at it & then realising it's not exactly what I want.
Hmm, perhaps I'll buy an Exige S for a couple of years & do some more track days etc. & then when I've had enough, sell it & spend some time tracking down the right 911 for me then... Probably a late 964 C2/low miles etc. or an '88/'89 Clubsport if one were to come up. But more time to think about it, & perhaps drive a few between now & then to build up an exact picture of what I want. With a 911, I want to 'buy the right one, & buy once'/keep it for some years, rather than buying perhaps the wrong one/throwing loads of money at it & then realising it's not exactly what I want.
Bog standard 964s are quite boring (relatively speaking). I owned a genuine 964RS and that was a whole different animal. Hard to believe it's the same car. From your earlier comments I think you'd be disappointed with a standard 964 C2 too.
I wouldn't go near that bastardised earlier car, unless you can buy it for less than £10K. It doesn't matter how much the previous owner spent on it, it's not worth any more than that. You can buy a mint 3.2 Carerra for under £20K, which is a much better long term investment and bags of fun to drive.
I can't comment on 993s, as I haven't driven one. I thought they looked great when they came out, but they're starting to date badly, especially the front end. Whereas the older cars are timeless.
I wouldn't go near that bastardised earlier car, unless you can buy it for less than £10K. It doesn't matter how much the previous owner spent on it, it's not worth any more than that. You can buy a mint 3.2 Carerra for under £20K, which is a much better long term investment and bags of fun to drive.
I can't comment on 993s, as I haven't driven one. I thought they looked great when they came out, but they're starting to date badly, especially the front end. Whereas the older cars are timeless.
uktrailmonster said:
I can't comment on 993s, as I haven't driven one. I thought they looked great when they came out, but they're starting to date badly, especially the front end. Whereas the older cars are timeless.
uh? On more than one occasion my car has been thought to have been a new 911 (997) exactly because of the front end. The 997's front end is very similar to the 993's unlike the 996 which was vastly different.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff