911S and proper wet weather driving advice
Discussion
OK folks, I have been running my 911s for 4 or 5 months now and have got the hang of most of its (road going) limits for dry weather and the occasional shower. I know that in the dry it is nigh on neutral on road with a very faint tendency to oversteer at the limits. I have yet to even have the faintest inkling of understeer, and I have yet to have any brown trouser moments that were not expected or partially provoked on my part.
HOWEVER, I am now approaching monsoon season and am starting to get a bit nervous.
Given that this is my daily driver and only car, and that I am in Singapore, so I am being serious when I say “Monsoon Season” (we had 12 inches of rain in 24 hours one day last year) I am starting to wonder if I shouldn’t have gone for a more sensible choice (amphibious duck perhaps)
My questions –
• What sort of wet weather tricks should I be expecting from the old girl?
• What changes should I be making to my driving style?
• Are their any old hands tricks to improve handling in wet (cement bag in the front or other)?
About the car – 1970’s 2.7 with a dyno’ed 228 Shaft BHP. Bridgestone Potenza tires, 205 /17” r40’s on front and 295 / 17” r40’s on back (from memory). Lightweight car and lower than standard ride height. Very “firm” suspension. (or so my rev limiter keeps moaning on about)
bluespanner's "i've just spun my car" thread on GG and recolections of an aquaplaining incident of my own got me thinking ....
advice greatly appreciated to keep me out of them hedges.
HOWEVER, I am now approaching monsoon season and am starting to get a bit nervous.
Given that this is my daily driver and only car, and that I am in Singapore, so I am being serious when I say “Monsoon Season” (we had 12 inches of rain in 24 hours one day last year) I am starting to wonder if I shouldn’t have gone for a more sensible choice (amphibious duck perhaps)
My questions –
• What sort of wet weather tricks should I be expecting from the old girl?
• What changes should I be making to my driving style?
• Are their any old hands tricks to improve handling in wet (cement bag in the front or other)?
About the car – 1970’s 2.7 with a dyno’ed 228 Shaft BHP. Bridgestone Potenza tires, 205 /17” r40’s on front and 295 / 17” r40’s on back (from memory). Lightweight car and lower than standard ride height. Very “firm” suspension. (or so my rev limiter keeps moaning on about)
bluespanner's "i've just spun my car" thread on GG and recolections of an aquaplaining incident of my own got me thinking ....
advice greatly appreciated to keep me out of them hedges.
First off, I'd get some narrower tyres to avoid aquaplaning. What's a 70's 2.7 doing on 17" rims with fat tyres anyway? I'd look for a set of original spec 15" rims with something like 195/65 fronts and 215/60 rears. These will improve the ride massively too. Otherwise, just drive it slowly and you'll be fine. Driving on the limit in the wet is just going to be a matter of time before it bites.
I'm surprised by what you say about your car's characteristics. The natural tendancy, wet or dry, should be 'understeer'.
It won't naturally 'oversteer' as some people think. 'Oversteer' usually only occurs as a secondary action when the car has been put out of shape (deliberately or otherwise).
The only way to practice is on a wet handling circuit, where you get used to destabilising the rear end and then catching it. Interestingly, even on ice, it's can be quite hard to go from understeer to oversteer as the front end often can't find enough grip.
It won't naturally 'oversteer' as some people think. 'Oversteer' usually only occurs as a secondary action when the car has been put out of shape (deliberately or otherwise).
The only way to practice is on a wet handling circuit, where you get used to destabilising the rear end and then catching it. Interestingly, even on ice, it's can be quite hard to go from understeer to oversteer as the front end often can't find enough grip.
Just dont end up in a storm drain , they are useless as boats ! Just remember the downhill corner in the wet scenario, air under light front end, detracts from steering , hence course in weight transfer handy ............with enough water to aquaplane a modicum of common sense helps LIKE SLOW DOWN...........ITS THE SAME THEORY WITH WATER INSTEAD OF AIR SO RESULT MORE DRAMATIC ......tendency to carry straight on whatever trajectory was control will return depends when !!!!!!!!
For the amount of water ur talking abt u just HAVE to slow down or buy a Cayenne!
For the amount of water ur talking abt u just HAVE to slow down or buy a Cayenne!
Narrower wheels .. not really an option .. will take 2 months just to find and get a set shipped out here, never mind the cost.
As to why its got such boots on it ... its on RUF BTR Wheels with a big turbo arse, how it was restored by the previous owner (it was re-engined from 2.4 to 2.7 then too)
Regarding skid pan training ... again, I think i am probably about 3000 miles from the nearest public access one of them.
The dry weather handling may be getting a bit queered compared to what you guys back home are used to due to the extra "grip' that you get out of the roads here ... sun generally gets the surface temps up to about 40c by morning rush hour, increasing to 50c by lunchtime so the road and the tires get nice and sticky.
I may well find that as soon as the rain cools the ground down that i will experience initial understeer. (then again, I may not have been trying hard enough ... )
As to why its got such boots on it ... its on RUF BTR Wheels with a big turbo arse, how it was restored by the previous owner (it was re-engined from 2.4 to 2.7 then too)
Regarding skid pan training ... again, I think i am probably about 3000 miles from the nearest public access one of them.
The dry weather handling may be getting a bit queered compared to what you guys back home are used to due to the extra "grip' that you get out of the roads here ... sun generally gets the surface temps up to about 40c by morning rush hour, increasing to 50c by lunchtime so the road and the tires get nice and sticky.
I may well find that as soon as the rain cools the ground down that i will experience initial understeer. (then again, I may not have been trying hard enough ... )
uktrailmonster said:
First off, I'd get some narrower tyres to avoid aquaplaning. What's a 70's 2.7 doing on 17" rims with fat tyres anyway? I'd look for a set of original spec 15" rims with something like 195/65 fronts and 215/60 rears. These will improve the ride massively too. Otherwise, just drive it slowly and you'll be fine. Driving on the limit in the wet is just going to be a matter of time before it bites.
From painful (financially) experience - I concur with this.
... at $300,000 ++ the cayenne option is out, think i will slow down.uktrailmonster said:
First off, I'd get some narrower tyres to avoid aquaplaning. What's a 70's 2.7 doing on 17" rims with fat tyres anyway? I'd look for a set of original spec 15" rims with something like 195/65 fronts and 215/60 rears. These will improve the ride massively too. Otherwise, just drive it slowly and you'll be fine. Driving on the limit in the wet is just going to be a matter of time before it bites.
Agree - 195/65 and 215/60s will fit 15x6s&7s or 15x7s&8s. But only a few manufacturers make matching tyres in these sizes.Best tyres that will fit, IME, are Good Year Eagle NCTs - much better than Pirelli P6000s.
Mind you, your car sounds highly modified, so it's a bit difficult to say what will look and perform best.
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