Problem with gearbox on 993
Discussion
Hi all, am new to the site. So hello. Have just purchased a 993, am having a problem with I think the gearbox. when I start the car it is difficult to get into gear. Which ever gear I choose. But once the car is warmed up I have no problem & the gear selection is good.
So have had the oil changed in the gearbox. But that's not solved the problem. Any ideas??
Oh by the why it's a 93 model.
So have had the oil changed in the gearbox. But that's not solved the problem. Any ideas??
Oh by the why it's a 93 model. Schh you'll wake up Ballcock, and he'll be poring over the 'net trying to find some reference to a known knackered gearbox fault!
Barn, its not a 996, its a 993, it'll be fine..
When you say its hard to get into gear when its cold, you know you have to be very positive with these 'boxes, and also allow for warm up times don't you?
However.....
Try and change the oil to Swepco, the best for a G50 50 box Im told.
Barn, its not a 996, its a 993, it'll be fine..
When you say its hard to get into gear when its cold, you know you have to be very positive with these 'boxes, and also allow for warm up times don't you?
However.....
Try and change the oil to Swepco, the best for a G50 50 box Im told.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Friday 8th August 22:50
stuttgartmetal said:
Schh you'll wake up Ballcock, and he'll be poring over the 'net trying to find some reference to a known knackered gearbox fault!
Barn, its not a 996, its a 993, it'll be fine..
When you say its hard to get into gear when its cold, you know you have to be very positive with these 'boxes, and also allow for warm up times don't you?
However.....
Try and change the oil to Swepco, the best for a G50 50 box Im told.
Thank Stutt. Barn, its not a 996, its a 993, it'll be fine..
When you say its hard to get into gear when its cold, you know you have to be very positive with these 'boxes, and also allow for warm up times don't you?
However.....
Try and change the oil to Swepco, the best for a G50 50 box Im told.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Friday 8th August 22:50
Additives in the oil have a bad effect on 944, 968 and 993 type gearboxes - as they tend to coat the conical synchrorings and prevent them from slowing down the gears. When the car is left standing - the normal oil drips away but leaves the additives on the mating surfaces where it is then more concentrated. This can cause difficulty engaging from cold that improves as the oil circulates and warms up.
964's and 993's can pick up crown wheel and pinion noises (due to wear and increased clearances) and even if the diff is re-set it doesn't always go away (due to general wear patterns) and often the general advice when this happens is to use some special oil or an additive that is supposed to reduce noises and wear. I am not saying that this is your problem (as they are always a little stiff anyway from cold) but sometimes people think they are doing the right thing by adding some specially advertised additive to an old car they want to treasure and keep for years - and I am just generally warning people not to put additives into the oil (or use any special oil for "old gearboxes") and if they ever have a problem where the gear simply will not engage from cold - they need to flush out the old oil and probably change the oil at least twice thereafter - to get rid of the additives.
Baz
964's and 993's can pick up crown wheel and pinion noises (due to wear and increased clearances) and even if the diff is re-set it doesn't always go away (due to general wear patterns) and often the general advice when this happens is to use some special oil or an additive that is supposed to reduce noises and wear. I am not saying that this is your problem (as they are always a little stiff anyway from cold) but sometimes people think they are doing the right thing by adding some specially advertised additive to an old car they want to treasure and keep for years - and I am just generally warning people not to put additives into the oil (or use any special oil for "old gearboxes") and if they ever have a problem where the gear simply will not engage from cold - they need to flush out the old oil and probably change the oil at least twice thereafter - to get rid of the additives.
Baz
Ive stocked a few over the years and have owned 7 IMO difficulty selecting first from cold and general selection woes are the first indication of gearbox wear,a good box is again only my opinion a joy I never found a good one to be tight hot or cold,if you have to think about it it isnt right,they are not like ferraris where you cant go straight into first when cold, Ive had two with the same problem both had rebuilt boxes quite soon after these problems first appeared.What you must not do is keep trying to ram it into gear you will destroy the syncros been there done that! Sorry to say it is not normal.
My suggestion came about years ago after stripping gearboxes to repair bad cold engagement only to find nothing wrong and then discovering an additive had been added, rebuilding them with the same parts and finding they were then OK.
Similarly I have given this advice to others who had recently used an additive (or special gearbox oil) only to find engagement worse and then changed the oil on my advice - to find it better again.
I suspect many have rebuilt gearboxes with new parts, cleaned out the old additive at the same time - re-filled with the correct standard oil and yes the result was OK - but who knows then if it was just the additive that had caused the original problem and a business that has already taken the engine out and gearbox off and stripped it is unlikely to then say there is nothing wrong and put it back together again and incur arguments about payment.
So although gearbox synchros can obviously wear out - it is easier and cheaper to try an oil change or two than go straight for an expensive rebuild - but owners with this problem can choose which they think is the best approach.
Just to clarify the description, additives don't make the movement stiff they just result in the gearlever stopping half way in and the gear not engaging - as if something was physically stopping it. An experienced specialist can tell the difference under test.
Baz
Similarly I have given this advice to others who had recently used an additive (or special gearbox oil) only to find engagement worse and then changed the oil on my advice - to find it better again.
I suspect many have rebuilt gearboxes with new parts, cleaned out the old additive at the same time - re-filled with the correct standard oil and yes the result was OK - but who knows then if it was just the additive that had caused the original problem and a business that has already taken the engine out and gearbox off and stripped it is unlikely to then say there is nothing wrong and put it back together again and incur arguments about payment.
So although gearbox synchros can obviously wear out - it is easier and cheaper to try an oil change or two than go straight for an expensive rebuild - but owners with this problem can choose which they think is the best approach.
Just to clarify the description, additives don't make the movement stiff they just result in the gearlever stopping half way in and the gear not engaging - as if something was physically stopping it. An experienced specialist can tell the difference under test.
Baz
hartech said:
My suggestion came about years ago after stripping gearboxes to repair bad cold engagement only to find nothing wrong and then discovering an additive had been added, rebuilding them with the same parts and finding they were then OK.
Similarly I have given this advice to others who had recently used an additive (or special gearbox oil) only to find engagement worse and then changed the oil on my advice - to find it better again.
I suspect many have rebuilt gearboxes with new parts, cleaned out the old additive at the same time - re-filled with the correct standard oil and yes the result was OK - but who knows then if it was just the additive that had caused the original problem and a business that has already taken the engine out and gearbox off and stripped it is unlikely to then say there is nothing wrong and put it back together again and incur arguments about payment.
So although gearbox synchros can obviously wear out - it is easier and cheaper to try an oil change or two than go straight for an expensive rebuild - but owners with this problem can choose which they think is the best approach.
Just to clarify the description, additives don't make the movement stiff they just result in the gearlever stopping half way in and the gear not engaging - as if something was physically stopping it. An experienced specialist can tell the difference under test.
Baz
I agree but am of the opinion that with a virgin fault, ie difficultys as posted by the op ,in the absense of any additives it is a warning sign of a rebuild, problems that occur like this in my experiance dont just go away,but do agree with a performance car like this you cannot add stuff to expensive parts and expect to fix any problems,may just get you out of trouble with a part exchange with a cheapy prior to auction at best.
Similarly I have given this advice to others who had recently used an additive (or special gearbox oil) only to find engagement worse and then changed the oil on my advice - to find it better again.
I suspect many have rebuilt gearboxes with new parts, cleaned out the old additive at the same time - re-filled with the correct standard oil and yes the result was OK - but who knows then if it was just the additive that had caused the original problem and a business that has already taken the engine out and gearbox off and stripped it is unlikely to then say there is nothing wrong and put it back together again and incur arguments about payment.
So although gearbox synchros can obviously wear out - it is easier and cheaper to try an oil change or two than go straight for an expensive rebuild - but owners with this problem can choose which they think is the best approach.
Just to clarify the description, additives don't make the movement stiff they just result in the gearlever stopping half way in and the gear not engaging - as if something was physically stopping it. An experienced specialist can tell the difference under test.
Baz
I agree but am of the opinion that with a virgin fault, ie difficultys as posted by the op ,in the absense of any additives it is a warning sign of a rebuild, problems that occur like this in my experiance dont just go away,but do agree with a performance car like this you cannot add stuff to expensive parts and expect to fix any problems,may just get you out of trouble with a part exchange with a cheapy prior to auction at best.
Gary - I am not interested in arguing about a car I cannot test or the difference in what you may have found and what I have found - they all depend upon different experiences and circumstances with different cars - but I do feel that you don't understand 2 things that I would like to clarify.
(1) aA additive added to a 993 gearbox can make the engagement much worse especially after leaving it to cool and trying it from cold - so if you don't know if it is in the gearbox or not - it might be worth trying.
(2) I don't know how to test a used gear oil for additives but I do know how the gearbox feels if it is in there and that every time I have either felt the gearbox and diagnosed that as the problem or adivised others over the phone - (usually when a customer has recently put in an additive or a special oil and then gradually found the problem occuring) the return to std oil has eventually cured it.
I hope readers do try this first as I have nothing to gain from giving this advice - as it actually can do me out of a potential rebuild and solve a potential problem cheaply and is something a customer can do for themselves. I am only advising it because if the gearbox has had additives in the oil - that can often be the only problem and I don't invent work when a simpler alternative may be the cause.
Baz
(1) aA additive added to a 993 gearbox can make the engagement much worse especially after leaving it to cool and trying it from cold - so if you don't know if it is in the gearbox or not - it might be worth trying.
(2) I don't know how to test a used gear oil for additives but I do know how the gearbox feels if it is in there and that every time I have either felt the gearbox and diagnosed that as the problem or adivised others over the phone - (usually when a customer has recently put in an additive or a special oil and then gradually found the problem occuring) the return to std oil has eventually cured it.
I hope readers do try this first as I have nothing to gain from giving this advice - as it actually can do me out of a potential rebuild and solve a potential problem cheaply and is something a customer can do for themselves. I am only advising it because if the gearbox has had additives in the oil - that can often be the only problem and I don't invent work when a simpler alternative may be the cause.
Baz
Also the customer is new to the car (so probably doesn't know what oil is in there) and he has the problem in all gears (so it is unlikely that they all failed on the synchros at the same time) - but it is entirely possible that the seller tried to reduce a noise before selling and added something that has made it worse.
Of course you could also be right but surely it must be worth trying such a relatively inexpensive possibility out first before stripping the gearbox.
Baz
Of course you could also be right but surely it must be worth trying such a relatively inexpensive possibility out first before stripping the gearbox.
Baz
hartech said:
Gary - I am not interested in arguing about a car I cannot test or the difference in what you may have found and what I have found - they all depend upon different experiences and circumstances with different cars - but I do feel that you don't understand 2 things that I would like to clarify.
(1) aA additive added to a 993 gearbox can make the engagement much worse especially after leaving it to cool and trying it from cold - so if you don't know if it is in the gearbox or not - it might be worth trying.
(2) I don't know how to test a used gear oil for additives but I do know how the gearbox feels if it is in there and that every time I have either felt the gearbox and diagnosed that as the problem or adivised others over the phone - (usually when a customer has recently put in an additive or a special oil and then gradually found the problem occuring) the return to std oil has eventually cured it.
I hope readers do try this first as I have nothing to gain from giving this advice - as it actually can do me out of a potential rebuild and solve a potential problem cheaply and is something a customer can do for themselves. I am only advising it because if the gearbox has had additives in the oil - that can often be the only problem and I don't invent work when a simpler alternative may be the cause.
Baz
Hi baz(1) aA additive added to a 993 gearbox can make the engagement much worse especially after leaving it to cool and trying it from cold - so if you don't know if it is in the gearbox or not - it might be worth trying.
(2) I don't know how to test a used gear oil for additives but I do know how the gearbox feels if it is in there and that every time I have either felt the gearbox and diagnosed that as the problem or adivised others over the phone - (usually when a customer has recently put in an additive or a special oil and then gradually found the problem occuring) the return to std oil has eventually cured it.
I hope readers do try this first as I have nothing to gain from giving this advice - as it actually can do me out of a potential rebuild and solve a potential problem cheaply and is something a customer can do for themselves. I am only advising it because if the gearbox has had additives in the oil - that can often be the only problem and I don't invent work when a simpler alternative may be the cause.
Baz
not trying to argue with you for a minute,and understand for you the difference in income betwixt oil change and rebuild,all I am trying to say,obviously badly is,if you have owned a car for a few years and its a nice thing with opc history and it starts to baulk into gear ect as a motor dealer of 25yrs experiance also,my initial gut feeling would be clutch or gear box,not "I wonder if someone has put any additives in box or not",I dont think someone would but one of these additives in a box for the sake of it,it normaly IMO gets put in for a reason,I cannot imagine the fault that existed which warranted application of additives, I dont feel would dissapear just by removing it and refilling with fresh oil of the correct spec,not doubting your experiance or knowledge of the marque,which is probably far superior to mine,I was making what I feel to be a valid point but NOT discrediting what you say,or trying to steer people away from your point of view,sorry if I offended you,
Gary
ETA a bit more waffle!
Edited by gary11 on Sunday 10th August 12:59
I experienced a similar issue with my 993. When cold it would not go into gear. When the car warmed up (after 10 mins or so) the problem disappeared altogether. The solution to the problem was much more straight forward and was totally cost free to fix. Most people, like me, press the clutch when they start the engine. In the case of my car, the clutch pedal remained partially depressed and would not fully release until the oil had warmed up - although this was almost impossible to notice. To fix, as soon as you have started the engine, simply reach down and pull the pedal back to the normal position by hand. I had to do this once and haven't experienced the problem since.
Probably not the solution to most causes of this issue, but given the ease, it has to be worth a try.
Probably not the solution to most causes of this issue, but given the ease, it has to be worth a try.
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