Prices - 996 C4S v 996TT v 997C2S

[Adam B]

I am considering the pros and cons of jumping back to Pork and thinking about the relative value of these 3 lovely cars.

Just wanted to get your views of whether my thinking is similar to consensus or way out as prices are all over the place these days.

(I am not interested in which is the better buy or debates about "all cheaps ones are dogs" so for my purposes please assume all 3 are good nick, decent colour and spec with 30k miles, private sale with a transferable OPC warranty)

03/04 996 C4S - lovely looking, justifies premium over std 996

03/04 996 TT - C4S with much better performance - is worth 3-5k more than a C4S

04/05 997 C2S - nicer looking than vanilla 996, newer model, much improved interior IMO - value similar to 996TT maybe bit less. IMHO the floor for a good clean C2S would be the ceiling for a 996C4S.

So I make it approx. £35k for C4S / £38k for C2S / £40k for TT for the sort of car I am after.

Good examples here (asking price so you may be able to knock a bit off any or all)

C4S - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/724069.htm

TT - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/722602.htm

C2S - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/714064.htm
(or even better http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/724725.htm )

What I am struggling to understand are some of the 996 C4S pricing at higher than a TT or 997S. I am not knocking them as they are very nice cars but for anywhere near similar money the C2S seesm a better bet let alone a TT.

eg http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/654407.htm

what do others think? Does my thinking seem reasonable?

[Callughan]

Here's my 2 cent buddy.

I think because the C4S has clean lines(no spoiler, no air vents), it will age less compared to say the 996tt, the rear red strip, turbo brakes suspension combined with a PSE makes an attractive proposition.

The 996tt, has simply stunning performance with all the useability of a regular 911, in addition it has the ability to be tuned without to much difficulty if that is the direction you want to go, imo do a straight pipe on it and you will be set.

997S has classic Porsche looks with the latest advancements(maybe too much?), as you know well, sports chrono and PSE are essential. I think a black one would defiantely suit you.

Good luck

Edited by Callughan on Thursday 2nd October 18:37

[Callughan]

It your lucky day the Callughan mobile mk 2
http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/uk/clients.show_ca...

[guyvert1]

Callughan said:

Here's my 2 cent buddy.

I think because the C4S has clean lines(no spoiler, no air vents), it will age less compared to say the 996tt, the rear red strip, turbo brakes suspension combined with a PSE makes an attractive proposition.

The 996tt, has simply stunning performance with all the useability of a regular 911, in addition it has the ability to be tuned without to much difficulty if that is the direction you want to go, imo do a straight pipe on it and you will be set.

997S has classic Porsche looks with the latest advancements(maybe too much?), as you know well, sports chrono and PSE are essential. I think a black one would defiantely suit you.

Good luck

Edited by Callughan on Thursday 2nd October 18:37

+1.. C4s if you're not bothered about performance, but the 996TT is a no brainer if you do want performance

[Adam B]

Callughan said:

lots of reasonable stuff

I know you are a little biased but do you think a C4S should ever be worth more than an equivalent age/mileage/spec TT or C2S?

Hard to be specific with examples but its the relative value I am curious about.

I see these depreciating realtively equally from the figures I quoted too - people agree?

[Adam B]

Callughan said:

It your lucky day the Callughan mobile mk 2
http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/uk/clients.show_ca...

It must be the guy who specced yours moving on to a cab - surely there can't be 3 people alive with that taste

[98C4S]

996 TT all the way.

You simply need to drive them all to realise it's in a league of its own.

The one you have in your link (04/04 Black 996 Turbo) has pretty much the perfect spec you could ask for:

Sports seats
Sat Nav
Heated Seats
Phone Module
Sunroof

If I was in a position, that car would be mine! 04 too!!

go get it

go go go











Still here?

[Adam B]

98C4S said:

You simply need to drive them all to realise it's in a league of its own.

I have, and you're right (about performance). Appreciate your enthusiasm buddy but that was not my question

[Callughan]

Adam B said:

Callughan said:

lots of reasonable stuff

I know you are a little biased but do you think a C4S should ever be worth more than an equivalent age/mileage/spec TT or C2S?

Hard to be specific with examples but its the relative value I am curious about.

I see these depreciating realtively equally from the figures I quoted too - people agree?

It's hard to say those are the factors I considered when buying mine. I'm not going to say anything about the year or model as that will start of the 993 brigade.

The turbo was an £86k car at one point so is superb value, but on the same note my car invoiced at £78K with options.

For the amount I paid I could have bought a nice 996tt but it was the unusual spec(not relevant in your case), the look and the sound the car made. I knew I wanted it as it felt right for me.

I would say look at each of the three cars on an individual merit, you will know when you see it and drive which example of that model is best for you.

Edited by Callughan on Thursday 2nd October 19:38

[Callughan]

I remember you liked Miras's turbo when we met, his car is a clean example that can be had for reasonable value now?(straight pipe/sports exhaust required though)

[98C4S]

Adam B said:

98C4S said:

You simply need to drive them all to realise it's in a league of its own.

I have, and you're right (about performance). Appreciate your enthusiasm buddy but that was not my question

Im like a puppy in a park!

Sorry!

I know this is not answering your question, but I was considering a 996 TT or a Wide body 993, I went for the latter as I have a daily drive, and the porker sits in the garage most of the time.

But what I did learn, is that the mechanics out there swear by the TT Engine - reliability etc.

I'll get my coat

[freedman]

TT best and quickest (By a distance), daily driver if you want

C4S looks great but in reality its looks over substance, slower than a standard C4 (like all the turbo look cars irrespective of series) let alone a TT

Edited by freedman on Thursday 2nd October 20:12

[gilford]

It is a very arguable point that the standard C4 is a fraction quicker

My handbook says 0-60 takes 4.9 seconds and 320bhp and stats for the standard C4 say 5.1 to 60 and 300bhp

I will not start the argument because where ever you look the stats are different

All I can say is I'd believe my Porsche handbook over the back of a magazine, and we all know narrow bodied 911's are fugly

[freedman]

gilford said:

All I can say is I'd believe my Porsche handbook over the back of a magazine, and we all know narrow bodied 911's are fugly

There is no doubt at all that the wide bodied cars are lovely looking, indeed the C4S is arguably the best looking 996 variant

[Junior Bianno]

I was faced with this decision about a year ago (jesus - it's a lot cheaper decision now!)

4S is a fantastic looking car, and sounds great with PSE, but that's about all it's going for it in comparison to the other two.

The Turbo practically has it all, but coming from a 986 Boxster S, sitting in the Turbo felt like I hadn't even changed cars. The performance is all there but it is a little too 4wd perfect for my liking.

997 C2S actually does have it all IMO - it looks amazing (paint the wheels black or grey - makes it look special!). Performance is as I much as I need frankly, for now. The interior is a completely different world to the 996, and if you do the miles I do you'll appreciate it.

That's my 2p

(BTW - I cannot believe that link with the geezer wanted £41k for a C4S in a private sale - it like an ad I was looking a year ago)

[gilford]

When I was looking back in May I test drove a few turbo's before finally deciding on the C4s

I was coming from a CSL and thought that the Turbo would be the next progressive step in the performance car world but after having the luxury of an extended test drive in one I just felt it very boring

Dont get me wrong it is quick, very quick, but it lacks the soundtrack for a performance car and the spoiler and side vents are very "demon tweeks" in my opinion.

You do really need to drive all 3 to make your mind up, but I found the C4s to be the best compromise, and believe me it took me long enough to make up my mind!

Yes, all cars have taken a dip in the present market but I think the C4s will fair quite well, it will always be a very desirable car for the reasons that have been mentioned in this thread but to name a few.

Owning a 911 is a dream to most people and just having sat on the drive to look at is some people's dream. I bought on looks with the 911 and dont find the cabin dated, have you sat in a 993 recently! The interior in the 997 is basically the same, just squarer buttons

All are extremely good cars, the Turbo is bd quick, the C4s has stunning looks and the 997 is the newer shape, you have a very hard choice my friend!

[ttdan]

reletive values are what they are, is the question "what will they be?" ?

I have a turbo & totally disagree about the "lack of invlovement" or "it's too easy to drive fast" nonesense, christ, it's 420 bhp, how much more involvement do you want?

the turbo is easy to mod, a pipe will get you a nice sound, not as great as a n/a car granted but still fun. Floor one of these things away from any junction and you have to do your best to hang on, then when you get a little used to it (bored)you can have it re mapped and start adjusting your perspective all over again. Sorry, but a C4S will never thrill in the same way, horses for courses and all that.

I love the sheer drama of the turbo, it looks like it's gonna eat you up.

Then, add to all this no RMS issues & a seriously endurance race derived engine........

it was any easy choice for me, and at today's value..........

[Thunderfoot]

gilford said:

It is a very arguable point that the standard C4 is a fraction quicker

My handbook says 0-60 takes 4.9 seconds and 320bhp and stats for the standard C4 say 5.1 to 60 and 300bhp

I will not start the argument because where ever you look the stats are different

All I can say is I'd believe my Porsche handbook over the back of a magazine, and we all know narrow bodied 911's are fugly

A 996 C4 and C4S both have 320bhp. A MK1 (97-01) 996 C4 would have 300bhp. The C4S is the slowest of all the 996 range, but arguably the prettiest.

[ZeroH]

I also just can't agree with anyone that says the turbo is "boring"... boring compared to what ? A yamaha R1 maybe !! Agree it lacks noise, but how can a turbo be boring but a C4S or a C2S not be ?

Get an X50 & get an exhaust (on my list !)... spec can certainly make a difference, essentials imo are nav (standard on 04's), heated seats, sports seats, and you can never go wrong with a black/black combo.... red/yellow belts really lift the interior as does carbon/alum bits & dials.

Happy to take you out in my car if you need convincing

[toby tucker]

Adam B said:

I am considering the pros and cons of jumping back to Pork and thinking about the relative value of these 3 lovely cars.

Just wanted to get your views of whether my thinking is similar to consensus or way out as prices are all over the place these days.

(I am not interested in which is the better buy or debates about "all cheaps ones are dogs" so for my purposes please assume all 3 are good nick, decent colour and spec with 30k miles, private sale with a transferable OPC warranty)

03/04 996 C4S - lovely looking, justifies premium over std 996

03/04 996 TT - C4S with much better performance - is worth 3-5k more than a C4S

04/05 997 C2S - nicer looking than vanilla 996, newer model, much improved interior IMO - value similar to 996TT maybe bit less. IMHO the floor for a good clean C2S would be the ceiling for a 996C4S.

So I make it approx. £35k for C4S / £38k for C2S / £40k for TT for the sort of car I am after.

Good examples here (asking price so you may be able to knock a bit off any or all)

C4S - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/724069.htm

TT - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/722602.htm

C2S - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/714064.htm
(or even better http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/724725.htm )

What I am struggling to understand are some of the 996 C4S pricing at higher than a TT or 997S. I am not knocking them as they are very nice cars but for anywhere near similar money the C2S seesm a better bet let alone a TT.

eg http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/654407.htm

what do others think? Does my thinking seem reasonable?

An earlier 01/02 face lifted TT @ ~£5k cheaper should give you a shallower depreciation curve over next 2-3 years as the prices for later models will depreciate faster.