Porsche Baby seat/airbag deactivation system dongles.
Discussion
Right I'm a lot further down the road to sorting out a work around for the Porsche airbag system allowing use of an alternative make baby seat in a Porsche by turning off the airbag on the passenger side to avoid squashed child syndrome!
However I have hit a problem, the original plan was just to turn out a buckle to plug in to the original Porsche socket, however it struck me that these buckles aren't cheap to manufacture and for about the same price we could make a complete system to plug in to the under seat wiring thus removing the need for the £100 Porsche airbag deactivation buckle adaptor. Therefore if you didn't have it it would save you £100 and if you did have it you could sell it to pay for our system.
Here comes the fun bit.
Made a unit to serve the same purpose as the Porsche adaptor.
Plugged it in to test and the airbag light flashes on and stays on. However in the manual it states it should flash 10 times and then stay on. No ten times here.
So I plug a standard Porsche airbag buckle adaptor in and then a buckle unit.
Same story.
I know our buckle works as A) The buckle is a purely mechanical object. B) It has been tested by a kind PHer and reported to work perfectly.
So why doesn't my car flash? It obviously is deactivating the airbag as the light coming on under any circumstances turns off the airbag system, however I also want to make sure it only knocks off the passenger airbag. I suspect the fault lies with my car as it does the same with the Original Porsche parts too. I also know it isn't harming the airbag system or throwing a fault code up as when you unplug the unit (either) the airbag light goes off and stays off. Which enforces my belief we have succeeded but our car is the fault.
Does anyone with the proper seat and adaptor have the same non flashing airbag light on startup?
However I have hit a problem, the original plan was just to turn out a buckle to plug in to the original Porsche socket, however it struck me that these buckles aren't cheap to manufacture and for about the same price we could make a complete system to plug in to the under seat wiring thus removing the need for the £100 Porsche airbag deactivation buckle adaptor. Therefore if you didn't have it it would save you £100 and if you did have it you could sell it to pay for our system.
Here comes the fun bit.
Made a unit to serve the same purpose as the Porsche adaptor.
Plugged it in to test and the airbag light flashes on and stays on. However in the manual it states it should flash 10 times and then stay on. No ten times here.
So I plug a standard Porsche airbag buckle adaptor in and then a buckle unit.
Same story.
I know our buckle works as A) The buckle is a purely mechanical object. B) It has been tested by a kind PHer and reported to work perfectly.
So why doesn't my car flash? It obviously is deactivating the airbag as the light coming on under any circumstances turns off the airbag system, however I also want to make sure it only knocks off the passenger airbag. I suspect the fault lies with my car as it does the same with the Original Porsche parts too. I also know it isn't harming the airbag system or throwing a fault code up as when you unplug the unit (either) the airbag light goes off and stays off. Which enforces my belief we have succeeded but our car is the fault.
Does anyone with the proper seat and adaptor have the same non flashing airbag light on startup?
Hi
Im new to PH and entered a topic you had repled to with reference to you making up a buckle for the air bag deactivator. As im getting my 996 on Tuesday i need to sort something out ASAP. I have not yet purchased the deactivation bar so am really interested in your design, i would be more than happy to help out with testing etc if this helps? Cheers
Im new to PH and entered a topic you had repled to with reference to you making up a buckle for the air bag deactivator. As im getting my 996 on Tuesday i need to sort something out ASAP. I have not yet purchased the deactivation bar so am really interested in your design, i would be more than happy to help out with testing etc if this helps? Cheers
Thats Great!, I collect my car tomorow so if you can keep me posted? I want one as soon as you feel happy with your design. This should mean i can use my existing seat for my 2 year old and get an appropriate seat for the rear for the boy! Hopefully you will be able to talk me through the installation process. I look forward to hearing from you. PS......lopsang87 in the other thread refering to this topic?.......its me, have changed my profile name. Someone told me not to use my real name?......B*ll*cks......Cheers Charlie
wildoliver said:
Does anyone with the proper seat and adaptor have the same non flashing airbag light on startup?
Hi Oliver, I have a Porsche passenger airbag deactivation thingy in my car. I`ve never even tried to use it. What do you need me to do, to test what happens for you? Cheers...Hi David I have totally stopped work for xmas now, what I really need is someone with the buckle installed (like you) to try the deactivation clip which I have made (and know works 100%) and then try the dongle I have made instead and see if it produces exactly the same response. It does in my car but we need to be sure. If the system can be perfected then it will save everyone a lot of money (indeed will actually work out free for anyone with the existing buckle in place).
wildoliver said:
Hi David I have totally stopped work for xmas now, what I really need is someone with the buckle installed (like you) to try the deactivation clip which I have made (and know works 100%) and then try the dongle I have made instead and see if it produces exactly the same response. It does in my car but we need to be sure. If the system can be perfected then it will save everyone a lot of money (indeed will actually work out free for anyone with the existing buckle in place).
How tight do you need to be to drive a 911 but to try to improvise with your childrens safety?bennno said:
wildoliver said:
Hi David I have totally stopped work for xmas now, what I really need is someone with the buckle installed (like you) to try the deactivation clip which I have made (and know works 100%) and then try the dongle I have made instead and see if it produces exactly the same response. It does in my car but we need to be sure. If the system can be perfected then it will save everyone a lot of money (indeed will actually work out free for anyone with the existing buckle in place).
How tight do you need to be to drive a 911 but to try to improvise with your childrens safety?nah, the porsche seat is especially shaped so it turns off the airbag, but also if you remove the insert in the base that it fits in the rear of the car perfectly - when you remove the base seat.
if you are talking about the bucket then i would not propose that this is replaced with anything shonky as if the airbag goes off it could be fatal for the child
all to save £100 - anybody who needs to do that is probably running around on remoulds and shouldnt be driving a 911
bennno
if you are talking about the bucket then i would not propose that this is replaced with anything shonky as if the airbag goes off it could be fatal for the child
all to save £100 - anybody who needs to do that is probably running around on remoulds and shouldnt be driving a 911
bennno
What bucket? And the shape of the seat has nothing to do with the airbag. Are you just trolling for the sake of it?
The baby seat is just a seat. The airbag is turned off purely by a buckle clip which is attached to the seat. This is a flat piece of metal, no electronics, nothing elaborate. Using an alternative to this clip is 100% safe. And saves far more than £100.
Maybe everybody isn't as considerably rich as yow.
The baby seat is just a seat. The airbag is turned off purely by a buckle clip which is attached to the seat. This is a flat piece of metal, no electronics, nothing elaborate. Using an alternative to this clip is 100% safe. And saves far more than £100.
Maybe everybody isn't as considerably rich as yow.
wildoliver said:
What bucket? And the shape of the seat has nothing to do with the airbag. Are you just trolling for the sake of it?
The baby seat is just a seat. The airbag is turned off purely by a buckle clip which is attached to the seat. This is a flat piece of metal, no electronics, nothing elaborate. Using an alternative to this clip is 100% safe. And saves far more than £100.
Maybe everybody isn't as considerably rich as yow.
just put the child in the rear if you want to save moneyThe baby seat is just a seat. The airbag is turned off purely by a buckle clip which is attached to the seat. This is a flat piece of metal, no electronics, nothing elaborate. Using an alternative to this clip is 100% safe. And saves far more than £100.
Maybe everybody isn't as considerably rich as yow.
wildoliver said:
The airbag is turned off purely by a buckle clip which is attached to the seat. This is a flat piece of metal, no electronics, nothing elaborate. Using an alternative to this clip is 100% safe.
Safety critical systems like these quite rightly undergo very complex Engineering analysis and lengthy and expensive development tests. No criticism intended to your fettling abilities but it is not something you can knock up at home. That sort of approach is fine for making brackets to hold number plates etc but not for an item that could potentially cause the death of a child.
As an Engineer (and a father of two young sprogs) that specialises in vehicle airbag systems, seats and seat belts my advice would be put your kids in the back seat. If you don't have a back seat, then, and only then put them in the front and invest in the properly Engineered seating system.
It's got nothing to do with being richer than anybody else. I buy petrol from Tesco. However, I don't take unnecessary risks with safety of mine or anybody else's children.
pp
Considering it is made of the same material as the Porsche buckle, follows the identical design, and every one is hand checked (which I imagine the Porsche ones won't be) then yes I can happily say I am 100% confident in the system, in fact of the 2 components (the Porsche airbag buckle adaptor which plugs in to the car and the buckle I produce to plug in to it) the one likely to give issues is in fact the Porsche part, not due to poor quality workmanship but the fact that is the only part with moving parts and electronics to go wrong. The beauty of the system is it is precisely the same as buying a Porsche seat off ebay and cutting the buckle off to use with your own seat. I do understand peoples concern and can assure you I have the same concerns which is precisely why I won't release the ideal solution as discussed a few posts previously until it has been totally tested as that is more complex than a flat piece of metal with a shape stamped out of it.
There are some things in life that is isn't worth risking and kids safety is one of them, consequently the only time I will sell any of these products is when I am totally confident in them, I'm there with one of them but not the other. Hence only starting production of one.
It does however beg the question while we are talking about the morals of producing a work around to this problem of the actual reason for the work around, that being why Porsche would break the convention of a simple key switch fitted at a cost of next to nothing per car in favour of a system requiring the purchase of £500 of Porsche baby seat. Far be it from me to suggest it was a cynical way to earn more money from Porsche owners with babies essentially blackmailing them in to spending another £500 on top of an already expensive car just to carry their child in safety.
There are some things in life that is isn't worth risking and kids safety is one of them, consequently the only time I will sell any of these products is when I am totally confident in them, I'm there with one of them but not the other. Hence only starting production of one.
It does however beg the question while we are talking about the morals of producing a work around to this problem of the actual reason for the work around, that being why Porsche would break the convention of a simple key switch fitted at a cost of next to nothing per car in favour of a system requiring the purchase of £500 of Porsche baby seat. Far be it from me to suggest it was a cynical way to earn more money from Porsche owners with babies essentially blackmailing them in to spending another £500 on top of an already expensive car just to carry their child in safety.
No one is suggesting that Porsche offer good value for money. Their system is however, thoroughly developed, validated and safe.
Let's look at the two extreme scenarios;
Made in a shed solution, checked and verified by a bloke of the internet - Best case you save 500 notes - Worst case your child is killed or seriously injured.
Like I said your approach is fine for the odd bracket or accessory but seriously flawed for a safety critical application.
pp
Let's look at the two extreme scenarios;
Made in a shed solution, checked and verified by a bloke of the internet - Best case you save 500 notes - Worst case your child is killed or seriously injured.
Like I said your approach is fine for the odd bracket or accessory but seriously flawed for a safety critical application.
pp
I'm sorry to be blunt here PP but you are wrong.
Was I offering a load bearing home designed baby seat for instance I would be inclined to agree. But a seatbelt clip (which doesn't carry any load all it has to do is clip in to switch an airbag off) is a different matter. It either clips in and works (in which case a light comes on the dash) or it doesn't in which case the light doesn't come on. It's a pretty simple thing and there is no black magic about the Porsche part, in fact it isn't even made by Porsche but by/for BMW and adapted to the Porsche application, the system was never designed to turn off an airbag indeed the original buckle unit is the rear centre buckle from a 3/5 series rear seat. So lets not get too excited about the development.
There is no doubt the Porsche unit goes well beyond the build quality needed as they use load bearing components (seatbelt clips) in a non load bearing environment, so they should well last forever, however at the same time the unit I am making while not capable of being load bearing (as no means for fastening a belt has been designed in to it) is of equal quality and far far in excess of what is needed to effectively press a switch.
I'm not trying to defend my "product" here as at the end of the day if I make anything out of the process I will be shocked, it has been an interesting way to put my skills to the test and help some PHers out, in fairness I wouldn't really mind if no-one bought one. But I suspect people will vote with their feet and see beyond the initial thought which is my god you shouldn't be doing that.
On a serious note if you have the system in your car have a look at it yourself, it is a very strange (and frankly illogical) system using a mish mash of parts. The part to be worried about is that buckle unit not the clip as if the switch ever goes inside it will be useless. There is nothing else in the system to fail.
Was I offering a load bearing home designed baby seat for instance I would be inclined to agree. But a seatbelt clip (which doesn't carry any load all it has to do is clip in to switch an airbag off) is a different matter. It either clips in and works (in which case a light comes on the dash) or it doesn't in which case the light doesn't come on. It's a pretty simple thing and there is no black magic about the Porsche part, in fact it isn't even made by Porsche but by/for BMW and adapted to the Porsche application, the system was never designed to turn off an airbag indeed the original buckle unit is the rear centre buckle from a 3/5 series rear seat. So lets not get too excited about the development.
There is no doubt the Porsche unit goes well beyond the build quality needed as they use load bearing components (seatbelt clips) in a non load bearing environment, so they should well last forever, however at the same time the unit I am making while not capable of being load bearing (as no means for fastening a belt has been designed in to it) is of equal quality and far far in excess of what is needed to effectively press a switch.
I'm not trying to defend my "product" here as at the end of the day if I make anything out of the process I will be shocked, it has been an interesting way to put my skills to the test and help some PHers out, in fairness I wouldn't really mind if no-one bought one. But I suspect people will vote with their feet and see beyond the initial thought which is my god you shouldn't be doing that.
On a serious note if you have the system in your car have a look at it yourself, it is a very strange (and frankly illogical) system using a mish mash of parts. The part to be worried about is that buckle unit not the clip as if the switch ever goes inside it will be useless. There is nothing else in the system to fail.
£25.
Anyhow guys it's Christmas, I've shelved all my work (and this is a hell of a long way down priorities anyway) till after xmas, lets reopen the conversation after Christmas when were all a bit more rested and probably more capable of a tolerant debate lol.
On a serious note I would after xmas welcome the input of the chaps who are "anti" this development, working on the theory at least one of you has experience in this sector if we can make them to your satisfaction then I think all people concerned would be happy.
Till then I hope everyone has a merry Christmas I won't be on much till New Year as I'm spending it with family, it's the first xmas we have all been off from work together.
Anyhow guys it's Christmas, I've shelved all my work (and this is a hell of a long way down priorities anyway) till after xmas, lets reopen the conversation after Christmas when were all a bit more rested and probably more capable of a tolerant debate lol.
On a serious note I would after xmas welcome the input of the chaps who are "anti" this development, working on the theory at least one of you has experience in this sector if we can make them to your satisfaction then I think all people concerned would be happy.
Till then I hope everyone has a merry Christmas I won't be on much till New Year as I'm spending it with family, it's the first xmas we have all been off from work together.
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