Discussion
Folks,
I have a question.
Looking at the latest Porsche offerings: Cayenne, C4S and Turbo Cabs. It's obvious that they believe hugely in their brand and wish to extend, as rightfully they should.
How much of your Porsche zest is for the brand and how much of it is for the cars themselves?
Me? I'm 60% car 40% Brand Kudos (History).
Yep, I know, non-puritan. 911Fan.
what brand is that then?
seriously, how do you split them? I bought a 996 because I wanted a reliable, quick, sportscar with good dynamics and looks. I picked a Porsche because of its reputation/brand for delivering these checkpoints.
Nothing in the world would induce me (obviously excepting Kylie) to buy a Cayenne regardless of the badge cos it doesn't deliver the checkpoints (obviously, just in my opinion).
Do people really buy dull or ugly or unreliable cars just because it has a desirable badge on the bonnet?
seriously, how do you split them? I bought a 996 because I wanted a reliable, quick, sportscar with good dynamics and looks. I picked a Porsche because of its reputation/brand for delivering these checkpoints.
Nothing in the world would induce me (obviously excepting Kylie) to buy a Cayenne regardless of the badge cos it doesn't deliver the checkpoints (obviously, just in my opinion).
Do people really buy dull or ugly or unreliable cars just because it has a desirable badge on the bonnet?
Subconsciously I must admit to a degree of 'heritage influence' (as opposed to mindless brandissimo) when I jumped into the 911 maelstrom but overwhelmingly, it was a decision made on the 'feck me' factor following Cerbera whambammanship.
Only the Turbo delivered a slug of grolsch sufficient to stand comparison with Blackpool's contemporarily lairiest rocker.
The twin effect of these factors congeal to affirm a powerful sense of a very high level of honedness.
Only the Turbo delivered a slug of grolsch sufficient to stand comparison with Blackpool's contemporarily lairiest rocker.
The twin effect of these factors congeal to affirm a powerful sense of a very high level of honedness.
IMO - the ratios would be dependant upon the 3 types of punter.
1) The majority of Joe Public including some people who really should know better - 90% Brand, 9% reputation/heritage and 1% car (if you were lucky). These ratios would change slightly depending on who you talked to, but the majority would see a Porsche as an accessory to their dream 36ft SunSeeker, Mansion in the country, Flat in Chelsea , Gucci handbag, Rolex watch, Jimmy Choo shoes, 0.5kg of pure Columbian, etc, etc. I.e. people who have little understanding of anything other than image and what they read in Hello, or are the people who buy Vauxhall's, Fords, etc.
2) For car enthusiasts, but who have never actually driven a Porsche these ratios would improve slightly to something like
25% Brand, 74% reputation/heritage and 1% car. Up to 4 months ago I would have put myself in this category simply because I could not get my head around all the B******ks Porsche owners talked about "attention to detail", "engineering excellence", "over engineered",, blah, blah, blah - Something which I became infected with about 4 minutes of Porsche ownership - must be something they put into the air conditioning - or not, if you have a 964 or 993
3) For those lucky enough to have owned a Porsche, the ratios would be different again 2% Brand (you could slap a Skoda badge on a 550, 911 TT, GT3 or a GT1 and it would still be the dogs danglies - not sure about a VW badge on a KN.........................Hmmm sorry - that has sort of happened already with the V6 - hence one Porsche which would not be for me - 9% on reputation/heritage (lest we forget - but do we really care about past Porsche glories - especially as most of us are already plotting our next Porsche which will be faster, better, etc) and the remaining 89% on the car itself.
JMO you understand.
1) The majority of Joe Public including some people who really should know better - 90% Brand, 9% reputation/heritage and 1% car (if you were lucky). These ratios would change slightly depending on who you talked to, but the majority would see a Porsche as an accessory to their dream 36ft SunSeeker, Mansion in the country, Flat in Chelsea , Gucci handbag, Rolex watch, Jimmy Choo shoes, 0.5kg of pure Columbian, etc, etc. I.e. people who have little understanding of anything other than image and what they read in Hello, or are the people who buy Vauxhall's, Fords, etc.
2) For car enthusiasts, but who have never actually driven a Porsche these ratios would improve slightly to something like
25% Brand, 74% reputation/heritage and 1% car. Up to 4 months ago I would have put myself in this category simply because I could not get my head around all the B******ks Porsche owners talked about "attention to detail", "engineering excellence", "over engineered",, blah, blah, blah - Something which I became infected with about 4 minutes of Porsche ownership - must be something they put into the air conditioning - or not, if you have a 964 or 993
3) For those lucky enough to have owned a Porsche, the ratios would be different again 2% Brand (you could slap a Skoda badge on a 550, 911 TT, GT3 or a GT1 and it would still be the dogs danglies - not sure about a VW badge on a KN.........................Hmmm sorry - that has sort of happened already with the V6 - hence one Porsche which would not be for me - 9% on reputation/heritage (lest we forget - but do we really care about past Porsche glories - especially as most of us are already plotting our next Porsche which will be faster, better, etc) and the remaining 89% on the car itself.
JMO you understand.
Unfortunatly, if you talk to the "Brand People" its absolutely 100% brand.
We all buy Porsche because of the strength of the brand. The brand is made up of all of the values that Porsche stand for, contributing to the overall. I dont know what Porsche`s current brand values are...but I would guess that they are something like: performance, engineering, engaging, desirable, realiable, stylish and heritage. If Porsche`s products live up to any of these qualities they will sell cars to us!
Ask 100 current new Porsche owners what car they drive and I`ll bet over 90% will say "a Porsche", forget which model it is, it the brand that counts. And that`s what Porsche do so well these days.
For those of us in pre-Boxster, 996 and Cayenne models,
we have cars from an era that was less brand oriented.
In those days it was the specifics that mattered...
"911" was a brand all on its own, and so were the water cooled cars in their own right. Ask current owners of the older cars what car they drive and their answer will be much more model specific: 911, 968, 928 etc,.
The brand folks have done great things for car sales over the last 6-8 years. They make more people aspire to Porsche ownership, they make Porsche a much more accessable brand. They make the dealerships much more approachable. And that is why the things cost so much and why Porsche keep posting major profit figures.
In years gone by a Porsche showroom was a much more intimidating place, you needed to know what you were looking for.
I am going on now, but point is all about the way the car manufacturers are using the "brand thing" to change the way we think about the products.
Its much stronger than we all think!
We all buy Porsche because of the strength of the brand. The brand is made up of all of the values that Porsche stand for, contributing to the overall. I dont know what Porsche`s current brand values are...but I would guess that they are something like: performance, engineering, engaging, desirable, realiable, stylish and heritage. If Porsche`s products live up to any of these qualities they will sell cars to us!
Ask 100 current new Porsche owners what car they drive and I`ll bet over 90% will say "a Porsche", forget which model it is, it the brand that counts. And that`s what Porsche do so well these days.
For those of us in pre-Boxster, 996 and Cayenne models,
we have cars from an era that was less brand oriented.
In those days it was the specifics that mattered...
"911" was a brand all on its own, and so were the water cooled cars in their own right. Ask current owners of the older cars what car they drive and their answer will be much more model specific: 911, 968, 928 etc,.
The brand folks have done great things for car sales over the last 6-8 years. They make more people aspire to Porsche ownership, they make Porsche a much more accessable brand. They make the dealerships much more approachable. And that is why the things cost so much and why Porsche keep posting major profit figures.
In years gone by a Porsche showroom was a much more intimidating place, you needed to know what you were looking for.
I am going on now, but point is all about the way the car manufacturers are using the "brand thing" to change the way we think about the products.
Its much stronger than we all think!
Interesting topic. I bought my first Porsche (and old 911) years ago based on its performance but when I think back I was very clearly affected by the brand.
I bought my next Porsche (BoxS) many years later because I wanted a two seater roadster that went as well as my TVR (as closely as available anyway) but that would be no fuss to own...I test drove an Audi TT which failed on quality, a Tuscan which was fantastic and I nearly bought it, but the Porsche won due to its fantastic build quality.
I bought my third Porsche (another BoxS) because the previous one was so utterly splendid as a driver's car I couldn't think of a two seater roadster that could be "better".
I will buy my next Porsche 100% on what the car delivers.
I bought my next Porsche (BoxS) many years later because I wanted a two seater roadster that went as well as my TVR (as closely as available anyway) but that would be no fuss to own...I test drove an Audi TT which failed on quality, a Tuscan which was fantastic and I nearly bought it, but the Porsche won due to its fantastic build quality.
I bought my third Porsche (another BoxS) because the previous one was so utterly splendid as a driver's car I couldn't think of a two seater roadster that could be "better".
I will buy my next Porsche 100% on what the car delivers.
I bought mine because it was the best all round sports car in terms of cost, performance, handling, reliability, running costs and looks. The fact that it had a Porsche badge was a bonus as I'd always admired the motorsport heritage and yes it is nice to say 'I think I'll take the Porsche today...' 
Plotloss said:
My first Porsche will be purchased on the back of the fact that they are complete and utter appliances.
Never liked 'em (based on brand) and then I went in one, a rather nice one at that.
Can you say about face?
So which Porsche made you a convert then, Matt? My BoxS is certainly an "appliance". Its a "fun" appliance.
Formative moments in the honing (that's honing, not hooning...) of a Porschephile?
Ride in a Turbo in Deutschland at age 15; trying to sketch a blut orange Targa in der Vaterland in winter '72 and finding it impossible to get the rear three quarter line right....
Nothing, but nothing else has held a candle to my Porsche desires since knee high to the proverbial marlin spike (and before I opened the Merkin farm, Dom....)
Melv
Ride in a Turbo in Deutschland at age 15; trying to sketch a blut orange Targa in der Vaterland in winter '72 and finding it impossible to get the rear three quarter line right....
Nothing, but nothing else has held a candle to my Porsche desires since knee high to the proverbial marlin spike (and before I opened the Merkin farm, Dom....)
Melv
Ah, the power of the brand. If we are to believe the marketing industry, we are all but fodder to their influences. We buy the brand they want us to buy.
Well, almost. In the case of a car such as Porsche the power of brand is important in terms of winning over those people who, shall we say, want to project something of themselves through the key fob they carry.
The enthusiast is less easily coerced, however. While brand and heritage count for something, capability and character count the most.
As evidence I give you the Noble. Minimal brand value ( Lee Nobles impressive resume notwithstanding) but a car which is respected and purchased on its abilities.
Noble owners care not that many will not recognise the key fob in the bar room banter.
So brand only goes so far. But Porsche need it to bring in the new blood.
Well, almost. In the case of a car such as Porsche the power of brand is important in terms of winning over those people who, shall we say, want to project something of themselves through the key fob they carry.
The enthusiast is less easily coerced, however. While brand and heritage count for something, capability and character count the most.
As evidence I give you the Noble. Minimal brand value ( Lee Nobles impressive resume notwithstanding) but a car which is respected and purchased on its abilities.
Noble owners care not that many will not recognise the key fob in the bar room banter.
So brand only goes so far. But Porsche need it to bring in the new blood.
toppstuff said:
Ah, the power of the brand. If we are to believe the marketing industry, we are all but fodder to their influences. We buy the brand they want us to buy.
Well, almost. In the case of a car such as Porsche the power of brand is important in terms of winning over those people who, shall we say, want to project something of themselves through the key fob they carry.
The enthusiast is less easily coerced, however. While brand and heritage count for something, capability and character count the most.
As evidence I give you the Noble. Minimal brand value ( Lee Nobles impressive resume notwithstanding) but a car which is respected and purchased on its abilities.
Noble owners care not that many will not recognise the key fob in the bar room banter.
So brand only goes so far. But Porsche need it to bring in the new blood.
Porsche needed it (the brand) to "up the volume" of sales and drag in the punters. They wanted to be the most profitable sports car maker ever. The strongest marketing thing they had to attract volume sales from all areas and all types of potential purchasers, was without any shadow of doubt was "that badge"
It`s all "Badge Engineering" I am afraid! Many of us enthusiasts will make our respective purchases based on knowledge, research and emotion. But we are not the volume!
Ecomomically, Porsche in 2003 and beyond, has to shift volume and I have no doubt that the product will become more and more main-stream as a result!
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