944 Turbo BROKEN!!! It won't start :( :(
Discussion
Hi everyone
My 944 Turbo (1987) has died today despite my having spent a couple of thousand on things like belts, pulleys, oil seals and the like in the last month... typical.
It has had a slight issue starting sometimes recently and a vacuum leak had caused it to miss sometimes under acceleration but was in good enough health to fly up and down motorways and play at Bedford open pit a week or so ago. Today it was fine then randomly after having been parked for 5 minutes it struggled to start then missed and stuttered down the road then stopped. Tried to restart it and it just cranks over but doesn't even try to fire anymore.
I tried the DME Relay trick of linking 87 87b and 30 together but still no joy so towed it home. When I do that I can definitely hear the fuel pump going but still won't fire. Where is the main ECU as I read somewhere that it can become water damaged, any one know!???
I will check the sparks and dizzy cap over the weekend but am not convinced it is that since it went from fine to NO attempt to spark at all!
Also removed the MAF to see if it was gunked up and there is a bit of oil but nothing bad. I did find evidence that the top of the bit has been removed and stuck down at some point so wondering if a dead MAF could cause this issue?
Another thought was that the stupid Clifford alarm and Immobiler might be causing chaos but I have no clue how to diagnose that.
I cant see any vac hoses or wires loose and the car is in pretty good order and I am a bit stumped.
Please help me as I want to make it to the Bovington Track Day on the 7th!!!
My 944 Turbo (1987) has died today despite my having spent a couple of thousand on things like belts, pulleys, oil seals and the like in the last month... typical.
It has had a slight issue starting sometimes recently and a vacuum leak had caused it to miss sometimes under acceleration but was in good enough health to fly up and down motorways and play at Bedford open pit a week or so ago. Today it was fine then randomly after having been parked for 5 minutes it struggled to start then missed and stuttered down the road then stopped. Tried to restart it and it just cranks over but doesn't even try to fire anymore.
I tried the DME Relay trick of linking 87 87b and 30 together but still no joy so towed it home. When I do that I can definitely hear the fuel pump going but still won't fire. Where is the main ECU as I read somewhere that it can become water damaged, any one know!???
I will check the sparks and dizzy cap over the weekend but am not convinced it is that since it went from fine to NO attempt to spark at all!
Also removed the MAF to see if it was gunked up and there is a bit of oil but nothing bad. I did find evidence that the top of the bit has been removed and stuck down at some point so wondering if a dead MAF could cause this issue?
Another thought was that the stupid Clifford alarm and Immobiler might be causing chaos but I have no clue how to diagnose that.
I cant see any vac hoses or wires loose and the car is in pretty good order and I am a bit stumped.
Please help me as I want to make it to the Bovington Track Day on the 7th!!!
Andy
I would start here
http://www.clarks-garage.com/
look in the garage shop manual - troubleshooting - engine. That gives you the best chance of going through thing systematically.
I was about to do this tonight as I have (or had) a non-starting 944 turbo - the bloody thing started first time! - so now I'm left wondering when it will decide to fail on me again as I haven't found the problem yet.
I would start here
http://www.clarks-garage.com/
look in the garage shop manual - troubleshooting - engine. That gives you the best chance of going through thing systematically.
I was about to do this tonight as I have (or had) a non-starting 944 turbo - the bloody thing started first time! - so now I'm left wondering when it will decide to fail on me again as I haven't found the problem yet.
Start with the very basic: how's the battery?
I went through 3 on my 944 Turbo. It might be good enough to run the fuel pump, but not turn the engine round. Put the lights on then try to start. Do they dim? Try a jump start/ other battery
The ecu is under the passenger footplate. Remove the carpet, remove the wooden board and you can see the ecu. Be careful, but you should be able to see if it is damp.
Let us know how you get on
I went through 3 on my 944 Turbo. It might be good enough to run the fuel pump, but not turn the engine round. Put the lights on then try to start. Do they dim? Try a jump start/ other battery
The ecu is under the passenger footplate. Remove the carpet, remove the wooden board and you can see the ecu. Be careful, but you should be able to see if it is damp.
Let us know how you get on
Its not the battery, I have re charged the one in there which is fairly new and tried it with the powerful one from my Landrover which has more than enough juice!!
I will get to the ECU tomorrow and inspect that as well, cheers for telling me where it is. See if its damp or non standard. Same principle with the MAF and will re check the dizzy and leads etc.
Will get it up on the axle stands and check th fuel and vac lines under the car as well. Really want it to work!!
I will get to the ECU tomorrow and inspect that as well, cheers for telling me where it is. See if its damp or non standard. Same principle with the MAF and will re check the dizzy and leads etc.
Will get it up on the axle stands and check th fuel and vac lines under the car as well. Really want it to work!!
When you turn it over does the rev counter bounce off the stop? Yes then the flywheel sensors are OK, check to see of the coil is switching 12Volts from the ECU. If no then the crank sensors are knackered. I had intermittent start problems which turned out to be an intermittant flywheel sensor connection.
AndyCowman said:
Cheers for that, I will investigate the coil later. Are the crank sensors accessible?
Cheers
Andy
Fairly, on the 2.5 NA the connectors are on a metal arm at the back of the cam cover, just over towards the passenger side. The sensors are further down on the bell housing.Cheers
Andy
Might sound silly but check you have fuel, I have s2 and after having it for 8 months using it
every day, I now have a company car and only use it at weekends, last week it didn't start,
first time ever.
Drove it the previous weekend, knew it was short on fuel, bought 5 litres put it in, and all
was ok
every day, I now have a company car and only use it at weekends, last week it didn't start,
first time ever.
Drove it the previous weekend, knew it was short on fuel, bought 5 litres put it in, and all
was ok
AndyCowman said:
Hi everyone
My 944 Turbo (1987) has died today despite my having spent a couple of thousand on things like belts, pulleys, oil seals and the like in the last month... typical.
It has had a slight issue starting sometimes recently and a vacuum leak had caused it to miss sometimes under acceleration but was in good enough health to fly up and down motorways and play at Bedford open pit a week or so ago. Today it was fine then randomly after having been parked for 5 minutes it struggled to start then missed and stuttered down the road then stopped. Tried to restart it and it just cranks over but doesn't even try to fire anymore.
I tried the DME Relay trick of linking 87 87b and 30 together but still no joy so towed it home. When I do that I can definitely hear the fuel pump going but still won't fire. Where is the main ECU as I read somewhere that it can become water damaged, any one know!???
I will check the sparks and dizzy cap over the weekend but am not convinced it is that since it went from fine to NO attempt to spark at all!
Also removed the MAF to see if it was gunked up and there is a bit of oil but nothing bad. I did find evidence that the top of the bit has been removed and stuck down at some point so wondering if a dead MAF could cause this issue?
Another thought was that the stupid Clifford alarm and Immobiler might be causing chaos but I have no clue how to diagnose that.
I cant see any vac hoses or wires loose and the car is in pretty good order and I am a bit stumped.
Please help me as I want to make it to the Bovington Track Day on the 7th!!!
I would check the immobiliser first some times you get a bad contact, you should be able to short out the wires accros the relay if its a old unit take it apart and its obviouse how it works My 944 Turbo (1987) has died today despite my having spent a couple of thousand on things like belts, pulleys, oil seals and the like in the last month... typical.
It has had a slight issue starting sometimes recently and a vacuum leak had caused it to miss sometimes under acceleration but was in good enough health to fly up and down motorways and play at Bedford open pit a week or so ago. Today it was fine then randomly after having been parked for 5 minutes it struggled to start then missed and stuttered down the road then stopped. Tried to restart it and it just cranks over but doesn't even try to fire anymore.
I tried the DME Relay trick of linking 87 87b and 30 together but still no joy so towed it home. When I do that I can definitely hear the fuel pump going but still won't fire. Where is the main ECU as I read somewhere that it can become water damaged, any one know!???
I will check the sparks and dizzy cap over the weekend but am not convinced it is that since it went from fine to NO attempt to spark at all!
Also removed the MAF to see if it was gunked up and there is a bit of oil but nothing bad. I did find evidence that the top of the bit has been removed and stuck down at some point so wondering if a dead MAF could cause this issue?
Another thought was that the stupid Clifford alarm and Immobiler might be causing chaos but I have no clue how to diagnose that.
I cant see any vac hoses or wires loose and the car is in pretty good order and I am a bit stumped.
Please help me as I want to make it to the Bovington Track Day on the 7th!!!
Edited by gt2russ on Friday 22 May 22:48
Still no joy 
Checked the Coil and I get spark and voltage
Checked Fuel and its pumping
Checked DME Relay and it doesn't appear to be that
Could it be the rota arm / dizzy cap? I can't see anything that would cause no attempt to fire on them.
Going to try and find the DME now and see if it looks wet.
The alarm / immobiliser is a Clifford and I have no idea how to tinker with that.
Checked the Coil and I get spark and voltage
Checked Fuel and its pumping
Checked DME Relay and it doesn't appear to be that
Could it be the rota arm / dizzy cap? I can't see anything that would cause no attempt to fire on them.
Going to try and find the DME now and see if it looks wet.
The alarm / immobiliser is a Clifford and I have no idea how to tinker with that.
Update
Tested Coil and it provides a spark (not sure how big it should be but I could see it and it went in time with me tapping my improvised earth wire)
Tested MAF using voltmeter and 9v battery and it works fine
Tested the DME relay and it passed also
Located the DME and other brain and they look ok. Not shiny but I can't see obvious damage. Also found a big clifford box down there with VBC3830X8GB stamped on it. Not sure how to test if the immobiliser is causing the issue.
Checked for fuel and its there and under pressure although I have no fuel pressure gauge so can't test that.
I tested a spark plug by unplugging it and then cranking the engine, could not see any spark. Looked closely at the dizzy and its not in great looking shape. Nor is rota arm (although it doesn't spin round). I have seen worse though on Landys that ran. Are there any other tests to do to confirm? Probably can't hurt to swap out the plugs and cap/rota.
ANyone got any thoughts?
Tested Coil and it provides a spark (not sure how big it should be but I could see it and it went in time with me tapping my improvised earth wire)
Tested MAF using voltmeter and 9v battery and it works fine
Tested the DME relay and it passed also
Located the DME and other brain and they look ok. Not shiny but I can't see obvious damage. Also found a big clifford box down there with VBC3830X8GB stamped on it. Not sure how to test if the immobiliser is causing the issue.
Checked for fuel and its there and under pressure although I have no fuel pressure gauge so can't test that.
I tested a spark plug by unplugging it and then cranking the engine, could not see any spark. Looked closely at the dizzy and its not in great looking shape. Nor is rota arm (although it doesn't spin round). I have seen worse though on Landys that ran. Are there any other tests to do to confirm? Probably can't hurt to swap out the plugs and cap/rota.
ANyone got any thoughts?
Well i have the brains on my table and I cant see any evidence of water damage. The PCBs look ok and I can't see any split solder connections. Also the car has standard chips so if its ever working again I can change them!!
Think that leaves the Dizzy & Rota or the alarm set up which is not the standard so not sure how to bypass it.
Is there anything specific I should look for in the ECUs?
Think that leaves the Dizzy & Rota or the alarm set up which is not the standard so not sure how to bypass it.
Is there anything specific I should look for in the ECUs?
Well I am off to Eurocarparts to collect new Bosch plugs, dizzy and rota in the hope that it will cure the car.
If not then its back to the DME and KLR themselves, or as you say Sebastian something that joins them to everything else!! Or its the speed and crank sensors which have been suggested. Or its the stupid Clifford....
Not such a fan of all these "Or it is"
I didn't think dead 944 Turbos were this common!!
If not then its back to the DME and KLR themselves, or as you say Sebastian something that joins them to everything else!! Or its the speed and crank sensors which have been suggested. Or its the stupid Clifford....
Not such a fan of all these "Or it is"
I didn't think dead 944 Turbos were this common!!
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