How to change the behaviour of a tiptronic box
Discussion
2006 997C4S Tip
My car is feeling a bit sluggish!! The tiptronic box has started to change up into higher gears earlier than previously.
I understand that these boxes try to learn the driving style of the owner, but seriously, I am NOT a minicab drivier who wants to change into top gear at 20mph. How do I get my gearbox to realise this?
I spend part of the week in London in traffic followed by motorway and A road driving at weekends.
My car is feeling a bit sluggish!! The tiptronic box has started to change up into higher gears earlier than previously.
I understand that these boxes try to learn the driving style of the owner, but seriously, I am NOT a minicab drivier who wants to change into top gear at 20mph. How do I get my gearbox to realise this?
I spend part of the week in London in traffic followed by motorway and A road driving at weekends.
How long is the learning process? Do I need to teach the 'bpx' over the course of 10 minutes or 10 hours?
How long will the new settings last before the tiptronic box starts to learn new behaviour? For example, I spend part of the week in traffic in London, and I'm quite happy to have a relax drive there. But then I spend part of the week on A roads. Will I have to complete this reset every time that I've been in London traffic for a few days?
How long will the new settings last before the tiptronic box starts to learn new behaviour? For example, I spend part of the week in traffic in London, and I'm quite happy to have a relax drive there. But then I spend part of the week on A roads. Will I have to complete this reset every time that I've been in London traffic for a few days?
markjo said:
Nope you don't need to disconnect the battery
You do need to disconnect the battery on the 996 (making sure you have the radio code!)leaving the key in is to avoid the alarm screaming (via its battery back up).Ref the Tips, if you look at your average speed in the OBC you will soon see that most of our driving ends up in traffic, hence Tip ends up using that driving map most of the time, having said that it should still adapt once you start pressing on for a decent period, or can't you just use those fiddly tip buttons in manual.
Edited to add.......Ref your question about how quickly it is supposed to adapt, it is claimed to choose the most suitable map for each given driving style on demand, so should adapt within a very short time.............
An active gearshift mode moving the shift points immediately into the dynamic engine control map as soon as the driver moves the gas pedal quickly and forcefully. ......... but in reality it does appear that over time the engine management gets stuck in some sort of rut & sulks about coming out, hence the re-set technique that was used on the 996 to great effect!
Maybe time for manual or PDK me thinks
Edited by Grant3 on Friday 24th July 09:37
I think PSM makes more difference on your Cayenne as it has a lot more torque, I haven't noticed too much difference tbh.
The box is designed to constantly adapt to your driving style, with 250 shift patterns. I've noticed once you've gone into kickdown a couple of times it then adjusts.
Agree PDK is a big move forward for auto shifting!
The box is designed to constantly adapt to your driving style, with 250 shift patterns. I've noticed once you've gone into kickdown a couple of times it then adjusts.
Agree PDK is a big move forward for auto shifting!
Callughan said:
I think PSM makes more difference on your Cayenne as it has a lot more torque, I haven't noticed too much difference tbh.
The box is designed to constantly adapt to your driving style, with 250 shift patterns. I've noticed once you've gone into kickdown a couple of times it then adjusts.
Agree PDK is a big move forward for auto shifting!
The main difference is that it uses the revs rather than upshifting when an old lady might. To be honest no idea if performance much better, but my god it sounds good.The box is designed to constantly adapt to your driving style, with 250 shift patterns. I've noticed once you've gone into kickdown a couple of times it then adjusts.
Agree PDK is a big move forward for auto shifting!
From what I've read it's doesn't makes it faster, whether you use tip or man or psm on or off, however power delivery would be different as would reaction time? I really use tip for cornering, PSM rarely comes on, where as on my Benz's it was always coming on.
I had a few runs with a white Cayenne Turbo last night with Zorst and sounded great, similar to a SL55 imo.
I had a few runs with a white Cayenne Turbo last night with Zorst and sounded great, similar to a SL55 imo.
Edited by Callughan on Saturday 25th July 15:48
Ignition on / off process described above is the throttle stop adaption, not tiptronic related. The driving map actively adapts relative to throttle, steering and G inputs - the real decisive factor for the box is the speed at which the throttle is opened, not the amount.
Try stabbing the throttle when you back off at a roundabout - it should drop one / two gears instantly, preparing to howl out the other side. The upshift block should occur during spirited cornering too - holding a gear for better acceleration.
You need to be deliberate with the throttle, gently rolling it on / off, though smooth, will encourage the box to be more comfortable.
Try stabbing the throttle when you back off at a roundabout - it should drop one / two gears instantly, preparing to howl out the other side. The upshift block should occur during spirited cornering too - holding a gear for better acceleration.
You need to be deliberate with the throttle, gently rolling it on / off, though smooth, will encourage the box to be more comfortable.
Interesting thoughts. I find the tip gearbox in the other halfs 993C2S very lazy. In top at less than 40mph. If I want to make a definate overtake I flick it over into manual mode so I know what I am getting. Yet the gearbox in my auto american truck which probably never tries to think for you just works brilliantly. In seven years of driving F150 lightning's I have never felt the need to bu**er about with the column change auto. The gearbox does exactly what I want at the prescibed time and does not try and second guess what I am thinking. Thats the trouble with most modern day cars. They try and build a car that can think for you. Utter bo**cks. I don't want a gearbox that thinks it knows better than me or a braking system (mercedes) that over brakes because it thinks you are about to have an accident and believes in a panic you will realease the brake pedal. Modern day car manufacturers just have not got a clue. They are to influenced by university muppets that could not drive their way out of a paper bag. Give me nothing else other than a decent abs package and I'm happy.
Edited by graeme36s on Saturday 25th July 22:19
The throttle 'response' is directly associated with the gear ratio selected, the engine / throttle stays the same, just that at a given ratio the torque or power is / isn't available at a certain revs - the whole reason for a gearbox. ie: an engine rated at 400Nm of torque @ 2000rpm will respond far better in 2nd gear @ 2000rpm than it would in 6th @ 2000rpm.
With 996> tiptronic, the comfort / economy map changes ratios early, giving a smooth change with good economy and a relatively 'lazy' drive, great for cruising the country side without a care in the world, not great for setting up the entry for a fast, tight set of bends.
The sport map allows full use of the engine rev range, holding gears for longer - up to the limiter - and allowing engine braking / blocking upshifts when decelerating as the torque load drops coming into bends
The early 996 had 5 maps spread from warm-up to full sport, the later system has 256 IIRC and 997's are infinitely variable and will change faster and more intuitively. Certain system also link to the PSM to give brake pre filling on a quick lift off and downshifts during cruise control to maintain speed (eg: down hills). However the system cannot anticipate the next move, the driver must induce a map change prior to needing it - it could it be likened to turbo lag?
The 964/993 box was a robotised 4 speed auto with a dual step lock up on 2nd gear and very widely spaced ratios, it doesn't have an adaptive system.
With 996> tiptronic, the comfort / economy map changes ratios early, giving a smooth change with good economy and a relatively 'lazy' drive, great for cruising the country side without a care in the world, not great for setting up the entry for a fast, tight set of bends.
The sport map allows full use of the engine rev range, holding gears for longer - up to the limiter - and allowing engine braking / blocking upshifts when decelerating as the torque load drops coming into bends
The early 996 had 5 maps spread from warm-up to full sport, the later system has 256 IIRC and 997's are infinitely variable and will change faster and more intuitively. Certain system also link to the PSM to give brake pre filling on a quick lift off and downshifts during cruise control to maintain speed (eg: down hills). However the system cannot anticipate the next move, the driver must induce a map change prior to needing it - it could it be likened to turbo lag?
The 964/993 box was a robotised 4 speed auto with a dual step lock up on 2nd gear and very widely spaced ratios, it doesn't have an adaptive system.
Edited by Pope on Saturday 25th July 22:46
Pope said:
Ignition on / off process described above is the throttle stop adaption, not tiptronic related. The driving map actively adapts relative to throttle, steering and G inputs - the real decisive factor for the box is the speed at which the throttle is opened, not the amount.
Try stabbing the throttle when you back off at a roundabout - it should drop one / two gears instantly, preparing to howl out the other side. The upshift block should occur during spirited cornering too - holding a gear for better acceleration.
You need to be deliberate with the throttle, gently rolling it on / off, though smooth, will encourage the box to be more comfortable.
Pope,Try stabbing the throttle when you back off at a roundabout - it should drop one / two gears instantly, preparing to howl out the other side. The upshift block should occur during spirited cornering too - holding a gear for better acceleration.
You need to be deliberate with the throttle, gently rolling it on / off, though smooth, will encourage the box to be more comfortable.
on the 993 tip, I believe it has in essence 5 main driving patterns; could you elaborate on what they are, in technical terms.
How the shift characteristics are selected: 964/993
When driving away with the selector in the auto gate, the journey always commences in the lowest of five (5) shift characteristics (SK1) – very comfortable and economical.
If the driver now accelerates rapidly, thus choosing a more sporty style by rapidly pressing and releasing the accelerator the Tiptronic CU changes from shift characteristic to shift characteristic until SK5 is reached for a very sporty driving style (eg: circuit use). The change from SK1 to SK5 can be achieved in a minimum of approx. 60 seconds.
If the driving style becomes considerably quieter or more careful as a result of road influences for example, this is also detected by the CU and it initiates shifting back to the lower more comfortable characteristics. The CU is programmed so that the low shift characteristics are automatically selected where possible – default position.
When driving away with the selector in the auto gate, the journey always commences in the lowest of five (5) shift characteristics (SK1) – very comfortable and economical.
If the driver now accelerates rapidly, thus choosing a more sporty style by rapidly pressing and releasing the accelerator the Tiptronic CU changes from shift characteristic to shift characteristic until SK5 is reached for a very sporty driving style (eg: circuit use). The change from SK1 to SK5 can be achieved in a minimum of approx. 60 seconds.
If the driving style becomes considerably quieter or more careful as a result of road influences for example, this is also detected by the CU and it initiates shifting back to the lower more comfortable characteristics. The CU is programmed so that the low shift characteristics are automatically selected where possible – default position.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff