Why don't 928s sell?
Discussion
I've owned a black 928S4 Auto for seven years and loved every minute. Sleek, fast, fabulous looks, immensely powerful, comfortable and it's NOT expensive to run - so my only reason for changing to a 993 was the 7-year itch.
The 928 is in great condition, with very low miles, 2 owners, full working condition etc etc - but no one wants it, even at a silly 7950 quid. I'd have thought an aspiring Porsche owner would jump at the chance - it's motoring in a marque that's at the top of the heap for peanuts.
There's got to be a simple answer, but I'm darned if I can see what it is! It can't be that it's water-cooled (like 996 etc), or heavy on fuel (average 22 mpg), and servicing is cheaper than most modern Porsches. Parts can be expensive but seldom needed - they're bullet-proof.
I note that there are fans - I've enjoyed Dogshark's posts in this forum - but are they all in the States??
I think its simply to do with the fact that hardly anyone wants them - they`re in the badland between being a modern car and being a classic - they`re perceived to be just an "old" car. Consequently the socially aspirational aren`t interested and the normal enthusiast is frightened off by the financial risk.
Most non-911 porches don`t seem to do that well when they get older (if we ignore the 356)but the 928 is a fine car. I just think it will take a few years before it gets the recognition it deserves...
Most non-911 porches don`t seem to do that well when they get older (if we ignore the 356)but the 928 is a fine car. I just think it will take a few years before it gets the recognition it deserves...
ettore said:
8< and the normal enthusiast is frightened off by the financial risk.
Yup, that sums it it for me at least. I did think about getting a 928 before I went for the 968 but purely on the fact that when I asked garages about them, I was advised I'd be better off digging a large hole, chucking my money into it and setting it alight!
Hardly fair but frightening for one on a 'normal' salary. I think the problem is finding a good one which probably puts many off after seeing a fair few rough ones. I'd still like to drive one but would be afraid I like it too much! I can't have both - only 1 garage :-)
BTW, a mate of mine has a new RX-8 and he dreams of getting 22mpg!
Cheers,
Steve
I think you're right about the perceived "financial risk" however when you think what depreciation is costing your RX-8 owning mate every year, £3.5k-ish say (based on £22k new, Which Car forecast of 52% retained value after three years), that would cover an awful lot of unforeseen maintenance on a ready-depreciated 928.
And which would you rather drive?
Chris
And which would you rather drive?
Chris
I think it is (and I don't mean this in a snobbish way) a matter of education. I think people view the 928 with their own "perception" of what they "think" the car is. Many people think it is an overweight car that can't get out of it's own way, and they are just misinformed. The car has a heavier feel to it, because it was the flagship of the line, meant to have performance and luxury too. It has a "feel" of being heavy, but all you have to do it turn the steering wheel and it goes. Once people put a hundred miles under their belt, I think they would be all smiles, because the 928 suspension is an absolutely superb piece of equipment, and literally every automotive journalist that ever wrote an article simply raves about the stability and solid feel at speed.
There is a myth about the 928 being complicated, but in reality, it costs no more to do (some of the) similar functions on a 944.
I agree they are bulletproof. They have a very robust engine and drivetrain. The main issue one must look after is the timing belt, and if this is done, you can generally drive the car with great reliability. Of course, there are a few electrical relays that must be changed out from time to time, but this is the case with all Porsche cars.
The 928 automatic may give some the impression that the car is like a 450-SL Mercedes or something. That is not the case. The 928 uses a Mercedes transmission, but it is fitted into a Porsche casing, located over the rear axle, and the result is a perfectly balanced car capble of almost unmatched stability at speed. As a matter of fact, I can't name one car that the automotive journalist community has embraced so firmly with regards to unanimous "unmatched stability at speeds up to 170 mph". In this car, the automatic transmission works beautifully. It's almost a "point and shoot" situation. Some people think an automatic 928 isn't a true performance car, but there sure are a lot of them here in the US that are being driven daily in a performance mode. In just about every case, the manual 5-speed will provide a couple of additional MPH on top end, but many times the published speeds are the same.
I think it's a matter of education. Those who have the information will view the 928 as one of the best high performance values money can buy, as their value has traditionally been down. This is good for the enthusiast, like me. I purchased my '83 for $8500 and have been delighted with it ever since, even with the nearly $3000 recent transaxle rebuild (which I knew I would have to do at the time I bought the car). Either way, auto or manual, they are fantastic drivers.
Dogsharks
There is a myth about the 928 being complicated, but in reality, it costs no more to do (some of the) similar functions on a 944.
I agree they are bulletproof. They have a very robust engine and drivetrain. The main issue one must look after is the timing belt, and if this is done, you can generally drive the car with great reliability. Of course, there are a few electrical relays that must be changed out from time to time, but this is the case with all Porsche cars.
The 928 automatic may give some the impression that the car is like a 450-SL Mercedes or something. That is not the case. The 928 uses a Mercedes transmission, but it is fitted into a Porsche casing, located over the rear axle, and the result is a perfectly balanced car capble of almost unmatched stability at speed. As a matter of fact, I can't name one car that the automotive journalist community has embraced so firmly with regards to unanimous "unmatched stability at speeds up to 170 mph". In this car, the automatic transmission works beautifully. It's almost a "point and shoot" situation. Some people think an automatic 928 isn't a true performance car, but there sure are a lot of them here in the US that are being driven daily in a performance mode. In just about every case, the manual 5-speed will provide a couple of additional MPH on top end, but many times the published speeds are the same.
I think it's a matter of education. Those who have the information will view the 928 as one of the best high performance values money can buy, as their value has traditionally been down. This is good for the enthusiast, like me. I purchased my '83 for $8500 and have been delighted with it ever since, even with the nearly $3000 recent transaxle rebuild (which I knew I would have to do at the time I bought the car). Either way, auto or manual, they are fantastic drivers.
Dogsharks
It's good to see that there are some folk out there who know a good thing when they see it! Dogshark's remarks are spot-on.
As I said at the start of this correspondence, my only reason for changing was an itch to try something different, and I couldn't garage (or fund!) two Porsches, sad as I was to see the 928 go. It has done me proud for seven years, and has cost little more in depreciation and running costs than our family runabout, though that's partly down to doing less mileage, of course.
As for performance, it's interesting to compare it with the 993 Targa Tip I've just bought. The newer car has rather more 'nervous' steering and is definitely quicker in answering pedal pressure. However, in terms of real acceleration, there's not a lot that compares with a 928 if you push the loud pedal hard, and it just keeps on, way into the scary speeds, with no sign of effort or change in comfort levels. It goes round corners as if it were on rails - I've never had a sign of a slide - and the brakes are typically Porsche, stopping the car even more dramatically than that amazing acceleration.
I must regard it all as water under the bridge now - someone made an offer for my car today, the garage wanted it off the forecourt, so it went. I hope the new owner appreciates what he's got for silly money! I shall always have a soft spot for 928s - especially 928S4 models - and I'd simply like to commend them to anyone looking for a stunning car. Just make sure you find one that has been looked after!
As I said at the start of this correspondence, my only reason for changing was an itch to try something different, and I couldn't garage (or fund!) two Porsches, sad as I was to see the 928 go. It has done me proud for seven years, and has cost little more in depreciation and running costs than our family runabout, though that's partly down to doing less mileage, of course.
As for performance, it's interesting to compare it with the 993 Targa Tip I've just bought. The newer car has rather more 'nervous' steering and is definitely quicker in answering pedal pressure. However, in terms of real acceleration, there's not a lot that compares with a 928 if you push the loud pedal hard, and it just keeps on, way into the scary speeds, with no sign of effort or change in comfort levels. It goes round corners as if it were on rails - I've never had a sign of a slide - and the brakes are typically Porsche, stopping the car even more dramatically than that amazing acceleration.
I must regard it all as water under the bridge now - someone made an offer for my car today, the garage wanted it off the forecourt, so it went. I hope the new owner appreciates what he's got for silly money! I shall always have a soft spot for 928s - especially 928S4 models - and I'd simply like to commend them to anyone looking for a stunning car. Just make sure you find one that has been looked after!
The trouble is guv`nor no one wants these anymore. Hmm - not sure if it`s really one for us he says kicking the tyres and thumbing through a 2 month old Glass`s guide. Can you give her a rev for me buddy, hmm, another quick toe punt of the tyres. Best I could do would be a couple of grand mate and I`m not even sure if I want it at that !
There is a lot of dross around with 928`s where people simply haven`t spent the money on them and I suspect potential buyers start looking around, see 2 or 3 knackers and give up assuming they are all going to be crap.
They are indeed a remarkable car, especially for the money. I`ve had much pleasure and covered many thousands of miles in them over the years.
If you get stuck there`s always those villans near Uxbridge !!
One final thought, what are you wearing when you show punters the motor ? If you `aven`t got the pork pie hat, sheepskin coat, thick chain and Gold Sov`s you won`t get no respect from `em an` they`ll think you`re pony !
The Honest Mr Firman.
There is a lot of dross around with 928`s where people simply haven`t spent the money on them and I suspect potential buyers start looking around, see 2 or 3 knackers and give up assuming they are all going to be crap.
They are indeed a remarkable car, especially for the money. I`ve had much pleasure and covered many thousands of miles in them over the years.
If you get stuck there`s always those villans near Uxbridge !!
One final thought, what are you wearing when you show punters the motor ? If you `aven`t got the pork pie hat, sheepskin coat, thick chain and Gold Sov`s you won`t get no respect from `em an` they`ll think you`re pony !
The Honest Mr Firman.
I'm sure you're right, Henry - I'll get the right clobber next time!
But the various points made in this thread point to the fact that the 928 has gained a bad reputation among the uninformed, simply because there have been problems with the cars that haven't been looked after. Add on to that the fact that the 928 line has stopped and you have the beginnings of a downward spiral, helped on by the activities of the cowboy element.
It was a true flagship in its day and, given decent care and attention, it will last for ever - those svelte lines are still eye-catching nearly thirty years after introduction.
Dogshark's pictures of the transaxle elsewhere in this forum show how well-engineered the machinery is!
Anyway, enough from me on this - just wanted to give the old girl a decent send-off by recommending her and her sisters to those who have never given them credit for the stunning machines they are!
Ken
Regarding parts and technology information, in the US there are several large 928 specialty houses, Devek, 928 International, and 928 Specialists, just to name three, who can get virtually any part needed on these cars.
As for the valuation of the car, the downward depreciation spiral stopped for all but the very latest models (1994 and 1995)quite a while ago, and they are (finally) appreciating in value, albeit rather slowly.
I do think, for any automotive enthusiast who appreciates the best and is a bit technically inclined, even if it is for the information knowledge only (information is power, and it can save you a lot of money) the 928 represents one heck of a lot of very fine machinery for a very low price.
regards,
Dogsharks
As for the valuation of the car, the downward depreciation spiral stopped for all but the very latest models (1994 and 1995)quite a while ago, and they are (finally) appreciating in value, albeit rather slowly.
I do think, for any automotive enthusiast who appreciates the best and is a bit technically inclined, even if it is for the information knowledge only (information is power, and it can save you a lot of money) the 928 represents one heck of a lot of very fine machinery for a very low price.
regards,
Dogsharks
What Katim doesn't say is that his is a 2 owner car (no.1 for 9 years, no.2 for 6 years), is black/black, 68,000 miles with FSH and polished wheels and aircon which works. Clearly been pampered and IMHO had it been advertised at that price in the right places, should have flown. (Apologies Katim, if you did indeed try advertising it on PH etc, BTW). By way of example, there are similar cars, with similar miles out there for a smidge under £10k.
Someone has indeed got a bargain!
Someone has indeed got a bargain!
Even 'people in the know' could be put off by facts like the engine management sometimes breaks down and costs £1000 to replace, some series of 32V engines had problems with porous blocks, sometimes porous heads.
As far as I've heard from 928-owning friends, 32V cars from the early days which have been put very few miles on are to be generally avoided unless their is evidence of motor exchange ("Austausch", letters "AT" being subsequently engraved near the block serial number).
These cars cost much money when new and people looking for buying them just tend to forget it.
Anyway since I've test driven both an '89 GT and an '87 S4 with Tech Art bits I have come to the obvious that the 928 is the only car which could do 'more' than my 944 S2
>> Edited by Thhom on Friday 23 January 12:51
As far as I've heard from 928-owning friends, 32V cars from the early days which have been put very few miles on are to be generally avoided unless their is evidence of motor exchange ("Austausch", letters "AT" being subsequently engraved near the block serial number).
These cars cost much money when new and people looking for buying them just tend to forget it.
Anyway since I've test driven both an '89 GT and an '87 S4 with Tech Art bits I have come to the obvious that the 928 is the only car which could do 'more' than my 944 S2
>> Edited by Thhom on Friday 23 January 12:51
355f said:I soooo don't agree with that! But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
I think the problem is that the 928 - good a car as it was in its day just looks, well in the nicest possible way, past it.
I think the 928 looks pretty timeless, although certain details will betray it's age...such as the wipers and non flush windows.
P.S. there's an advert in my local Friday-Ad:
Porsche 928S 4.7 manual, in need of some restoration, 1981, 65k miles, lots of Porsche history, worth several thousands with little work (hmmm?) will sell for £1000
Somebody hold me back!
It is indeed a strange one.
On a simple level, for the current UK punter, £10-£20k is awash with a veritable plethora of dynaimc alternatives:
A pukka E34 M5 (3.8) is at least as fast, built as well and more practical.
A rally special from the Banzai Bros will kill any standard 928 incarnation up to serious autobahn velocities and reasonably Nismo'd R32/33 Skylines will always administer a good beating even thereafter.
At the end of the day, a pensioned 911 or very early Boxster has indeed the (questionably motivated) cachet suggested above, insofar as the first time buyer is concerned.
But hey - what the hell do they know, right?
What we all know is that the old girl serves up an automotive cocktail more befitting an Americam legend than perhaps a more effete, European pedigree.
Georg Kacher's late 80's review of the hugely rare S4 Clubsport will live with me forever...as will my memories of a sustained blast one long night from Freiburg to Calais.
More dead bunnies than you could shake a stick at.
On a simple level, for the current UK punter, £10-£20k is awash with a veritable plethora of dynaimc alternatives:
A pukka E34 M5 (3.8) is at least as fast, built as well and more practical.
A rally special from the Banzai Bros will kill any standard 928 incarnation up to serious autobahn velocities and reasonably Nismo'd R32/33 Skylines will always administer a good beating even thereafter.
At the end of the day, a pensioned 911 or very early Boxster has indeed the (questionably motivated) cachet suggested above, insofar as the first time buyer is concerned.
But hey - what the hell do they know, right?
What we all know is that the old girl serves up an automotive cocktail more befitting an Americam legend than perhaps a more effete, European pedigree.
Georg Kacher's late 80's review of the hugely rare S4 Clubsport will live with me forever...as will my memories of a sustained blast one long night from Freiburg to Calais.
More dead bunnies than you could shake a stick at.
I think the 928 looks dated in the same way as the Ferrari 355 looks dated - y'know - the pop-up headlights sooooo '80s, the non-flush windows, the design of the buttons for the electric windows....
see what I mean?
In reality, for me, both cars are timeless designs.
Katim's car sold for £5400 - does this set a new benchmark for the value of s/h 928s?
see what I mean?
In reality, for me, both cars are timeless designs.
Katim's car sold for £5400 - does this set a new benchmark for the value of s/h 928s?
I think the 928 looks dated in the same way as the Ferrari 355 looks dated - y'know - the pop-up headlights sooooo '80s, the non-flush windows, the design of the buttons for the electric windows....
see what I mean?
In reality, for me, both cars are timeless designs.
Katim's car sold for £5400 - does this set a new benchmark for the value of s/h 928s?
see what I mean?
In reality, for me, both cars are timeless designs.
Katim's car sold for £5400 - does this set a new benchmark for the value of s/h 928s?
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