Intercoolers for 996tt/GT2

[GT Two]

I have read some quite interesting threads on this forum about intercooler upgrades

Is there anyone with experience that can give me their view?

I am looking at the vivid racing/agency power item or spending a bit more on some Evo M's items... possibly something from Forge also.

I would love to hear from some one with a tuned 996TT or GT2 that has done this.

Thanks

[TB993tt]

GT Two said:

Is there anyone with experience that can give me their view?

I am looking at the vivid racing/agency power item or spending a bit more on some Evo M's items... possibly something from Forge also.

The problem is finding some real proof that the new intercoolers work better than stock and how much better (ie worth the ££)
Most of these "tuners" will bang on about end tanks and pressure drops which are really red herrings - it is delta between ambient temperature and IAT which is all that practically matters - they never have this data.

And when someone tells you their intercooler gives xxhp "on the dyno" it is time to run

Having said all that, the EVO ones are used on their mega boost fast cars so they must do something, just hard to get concrete data (they must have it as I can't believe they have never datalogged any of their record breaking runs !)

[GT Two]

TB993tt said:

GT Two said:

Is there anyone with experience that can give me their view?

I am looking at the vivid racing/agency power item or spending a bit more on some Evo M's items... possibly something from Forge also.

The problem is finding some real proof that the new intercoolers work better than stock and how much better (ie worth the ££)
Most of these "tuners" will bang on about end tanks and pressure drops which are really red herrings - it is delta between ambient temperature and IAT which is all that practically matters - they never have this data.

And when someone tells you their intercooler gives xxhp "on the dyno" it is time to run

Having said all that, the EVO ones are used on their mega boost fast cars so they must do something, just hard to get concrete data (they must have it as I can't believe they have never datalogged any of their record breaking runs !)

Thanks, there seems to be so much mystery with these products and no real substance or proof for the difference in price.

[_gez_]

I'm sure your Durametric will show your IAT's. I haven't got one but a mate's ELM327 would display them on my car so I'd be surprised if the Durametric won't. I was surprised at how quick the intake temps dropped once you were off the gas.

I'd be surprised if you would need to spend on i/c's even with your hybrids. Not unless you are planning on doing regular vmax's! I guess what we need to know is what is an acceptable maximum IAT?

Edited by _gez_ on Saturday 9th January 15:34

[ZeroH]

TB993tt said:

GT Two said:

Is there anyone with experience that can give me their view?

I am looking at the vivid racing/agency power item or spending a bit more on some Evo M's items... possibly something from Forge also.

The problem is finding some real proof that the new intercoolers work better than stock and how much better (ie worth the ££)
Most of these "tuners" will bang on about end tanks and pressure drops which are really red herrings - it is delta between ambient temperature and IAT which is all that practically matters - they never have this data.

And when someone tells you their intercooler gives xxhp "on the dyno" it is time to run

Having said all that, the EVO ones are used on their mega boost fast cars so they must do something, just hard to get concrete data (they must have it as I can't believe they have never datalogged any of their record breaking runs !)

Are your i/c's being retailed anywhere Toby ?

[TB993tt]

_gez_ said:

I guess what we need to know is what is an acceptable maximum IAT?

I undertsand the timing begins to be retarded from optimum at 55degC intake on the 997tt (probably similar on the 996tt) an IAT which can easily be reached in a standard turbo on a summer's day...

Zero: Not being retailed but built to order, too expensive for most pallettes

Edited by TB993tt on Saturday 9th January 16:18

[996TT_STEVO]

Lee... you shouldn't have started this thread... lol

[ZeroH]

TB993tt said:

_gez_ said:

I guess what we need to know is what is an acceptable maximum IAT?

I undertsand the timing begins to be retarded from optimum at 55degC intake on the 997tt (probably similar on the 996tt) an IAT which can easily be reached in a standard turbo on a summer's day...

Zero: Not being retailed but built to order, too expensive for most pallettes

Edited by TB993tt on Saturday 9th January 16:18

will check my iat and timing next time im on track and can get some heat into it

[Badjwa]

TB993tt said:

_gez_ said:

I guess what we need to know is what is an acceptable maximum IAT?

I undertsand the timing begins to be retarded from optimum at 55degC intake on the 997tt (probably similar on the 996tt) an IAT which can easily be reached in a standard turbo on a summer's day...

Zero: Not being retailed but built to order, too expensive for most pallettes

Edited by TB993tt on Saturday 9th January 16:18

No demand or use is probably a more realistic reason for non retail.

[996TT_STEVO]

Badjwa said:

TB993tt said:

_gez_ said:

I guess what we need to know is what is an acceptable maximum IAT?

I undertsand the timing begins to be retarded from optimum at 55degC intake on the 997tt (probably similar on the 996tt) an IAT which can easily be reached in a standard turbo on a summer's day...

Zero: Not being retailed but built to order, too expensive for most pallettes

Edited by TB993tt on Saturday 9th January 16:18

No demand or use is probably a more realistic reason for non retail.

[TB993tt]

996TT_STEVO said:

Badjwa said:

TB993tt said:

_gez_ said:

Zero: Not being retailed but built to order, too expensive for most pallettes

No demand or use is probably a more realistic reason for non retail.

Agree entirely, very limited demand at these prices, if 996/7 turbos were raced extensively like the 993 GT2s these intercoolers would be used by all the teams who wanted to be competative (just as they all purchased the crazy money Porsche MS Secan units)

[markcoznottz]

The 996GT2 and x50 intercoolers are bigger than the normal 996tt ones is that right. Are the 997tt intercoolers the same size or bigger still?.

[hog 1]

997T & 997T are same size / p/n.
I just ordered a pair of i/c from Evoms with the Swain coating, should be nice to try if we ever get any warmer weather.
Also just ordered a new set of water rads from PWR, after the old ones rotted away - again.
Will post when its all done.

[EvoSlayer]

GT Two said:

I have read some quite interesting threads on this forum about intercooler upgrades Is there anyone with experience that can give me their view?I am looking at the vivid racing/agency power item or spending a bit more on some Evo M's items... possibly something from Forge also.I would love to hear from some one with a tuned 996TT or GT2 that has done this.Thanks

As I understand it the Evoms Clubsport I/Cs are reputed to be fairly effective from what I've read but require the use of the Evoms hoses adding more expense. I was considering the AP ones but not sure of the quality or managed to find many views on these yet...Or it could be that I'm just bored due to crappy weather and itching to take something to bits, (see IPD thread!)

[charge]

I would at least check out these guys. http://www.ctrdevelopments.com/intercoolers.html
Spoke to them in the week, and they seem to be getting coolers made that perform beter than secan coolers which are rated and proved as the best money can buy! (And a lot of money they are too!)
Another bonus is that they are considerably cheaper than the secan coolers.
Ultra Violent rates these people, and he strikes me as a guy not to suffer fools gladly.

[anonymous-user]

to be honesti don't understand why intercoolers are so contentious. the old $20k porsche motorsport 'secans' obviously worked efficiently even massively heat soaked in 24hr a race. now give a set to a decent fabricator they should be able to knock you up a copy for a tiny fraction of the cost. secans arn't magic. its only a bunch of square section tubes welded up in a big fin sandwich. unless tuned 996's and 997's need vastly different amounts of airflow than the old 993gt2r's why don't the tuners just make secan replicas?

Edited by fbrs on Sunday 10th January 18:05

[996TT_STEVO]

fbrs said:

to be honesti don't understand why intercoolers are so contentious. the old $20k porsche motorsport 'secans' obviously worked efficiently even massively heat soaked in 24hr a race. now give a set to a decent fabricator they should be able to knock you up a copy for a tiny fraction of the cost. secans arn't magic. its only a bunch of square section tubes welded up in a big fin sandwich. unless tuned 996's and 997's need vastly different amounts of airflow than the old 993gt2r's why don't the tuners just make secan replicas?

Edited by fbrs on Sunday 10th January 18:05

: : no doubt Toby will be along soon

[charge]

I was told that the cores CTR are using are even slighly better than secans, and they are in talks with people to supply them.
On top of that they do the thermodynamics equations to get flow, surface area ect right. They really do seem to be on the cutting edge of stuff through the continued development of race cars Inc. Their 935.

[anonymous-user]

charge said:

I was told that the cores CTR are using are even slighly better than secans, and they are in talks with people to supply them.
On top of that they do the thermodynamics equations to get flow, surface area ect right. They really do seem to be on the cutting edge of stuff through the continued development of race cars Inc. Their 935.

no doubt. how old are secans? i agree modern cfd, newer alloys and manufacturing processes must be able to improve on the design, as toby tb said; if there was demand. my point was simply why all these other tuners bother to make their own with different numbers of cores, depths, fin count, cross sections etc..etc.. why not just copy the proven design porsche motorsports/secan probably spent $$$ and years on trial by error development?

[996TT_STEVO]

The bottom line, is anything is better than the stock TT/GT2 units.