944 rear suspension advice
Discussion
I have just purchased my first 994, it is a 1990 S2 Convertable. I picked up the car on Tuesday gone and drove it home. The has only covered a genuine 45,000. Having taking the car out of the garage yesterday for the first time to have a real good look around it, I have noticed, when looking at the rear end from a distance that one side is lower than the other. Having then measure height of each rear end to the top of the rear wheel arch on flat ground, the offside is 22mm lower than the nearside. Could any one give me an idea of what it could be, could it be as simple as a failed rear shocker?
Regards
Paul
Regards
Paul
The rear of a 944 is suspended on torsion bars, rather than conventional coil springs. The bars are housed in the black tubes running out from the centre of the car in front of the transmission. They are fixed on their inboard ends and the spring plates attached on the outboard ends 'twist' the bar as load is applied by the wishbone assemblies / wheels. The bars each have an adjustable spring plate to enable a small amount of height adjustment to get the car level -adjustment area shown in red:
The bars may just be incorrectly set but they can weaken, sag or break as well.
The bars may just be incorrectly set but they can weaken, sag or break as well.
Edited by Pope on Sunday 21st February 08:57
Yes, the priciple is the same as the Beetle and it was used until around 1989 when the 964 came out (lived on with 968 til later)
Remove the wheels and compare the two-piece spring plate to wishbone attitude side to side - if they seem markedly different, you might be able to bring the car level by adjusting the plates to an equal side to side appearance - I'd advise you get it set by someone with the necessary adjustment and measuring tools though.
If the bar is broken, there will be no or very little 'springing' action available at the plate in question - though to be honest, a fracture usually results in a complete, clean break rather than gradual increased sag.
Remove the wheels and compare the two-piece spring plate to wishbone attitude side to side - if they seem markedly different, you might be able to bring the car level by adjusting the plates to an equal side to side appearance - I'd advise you get it set by someone with the necessary adjustment and measuring tools though.
If the bar is broken, there will be no or very little 'springing' action available at the plate in question - though to be honest, a fracture usually results in a complete, clean break rather than gradual increased sag.
Next I would measure the ride height using each end of the sill not the height to the rear wheel arches. The reason why is that the rear quarters on each side of the car are not always the same, on my S2 I thought this was because the car had been in an accident at some point (it had) and the repair created this oddity. However someone over on the PCGB forum reckoned this odd difference was on all of the series 2 944 shells back then. Basically if you look closely the nearside wheel will appear further out and the arch slightly higher, on the drivers side the other way round. Crazy I know and I thought this was just my car but I have seen the same on a few 944's now.
If the car is 'twisted' a little on the suspension due to torsion bar sag you can spot it easily as typically the front nearside wheel arch will have a huge gap, the rear offside one a small gap and the front offside arch a smaller gap then the front nearside. Pretty much every stock S2 I have seen in the past 5 years that hasn't had the suspension corrected/renovated looks like this (I am not a dealer/repairer just cars you see out and about).
If the car is 'twisted' a little on the suspension due to torsion bar sag you can spot it easily as typically the front nearside wheel arch will have a huge gap, the rear offside one a small gap and the front offside arch a smaller gap then the front nearside. Pretty much every stock S2 I have seen in the past 5 years that hasn't had the suspension corrected/renovated looks like this (I am not a dealer/repairer just cars you see out and about).
Not knocking Ted & Co but there's a much better source of info for us 944 owners, this forum is more focussed on the newer models. http://forums.rennlist.com/
I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
hibbertp said:
In essence the gap between the N/S rear tyre and arch is 20mm bigger than the offside. Not had a chance to look at it today due to the snow, to see if there is any difference in treh spring plates on either side.
So you say this could be normal????
No but its fairly common to see S2's that look twisted because the torsion bars sag over time, so its normal in as much as a lot of cars by this age have a combination of incorrect ride height, incorrect geometry and generally tired suspension. If your car has any inconsistencies in the panel work you can check the ride heights using the straight line along the sill, at the front the stone chip on the wing lines up nicely with the bottom of the door, you can trace this line back across the rear arch as well. This isn't the factory manual method but lets put it this way, if the floor pan of the car is not straight then your pretty well stuffed. TBH though its a real struggle to get accurate meaningful measurements working from home. You need a perfectly flat garage floor for a start. It may be best to get the car into one of the Porsche specialists who can do 4 wheel alignment etc. someone like Centre Gravity / Promax / JZ Machtech etc. if anything else if as I suspect your torsion bars have sagged the car will need a full alignment as soon as the rear adjusters are touched anyway.So you say this could be normal????
I should add I wouldn't recommend spending £3K on suspension mods just to fix a car that needs fettling, these cars handle really nicely even on bone stock suspension as long as everything is spot on including the tyres OK not mega sharp and grippy like a modern sports car but do you really need that feeling? or are you going to do lots of track days in it? if not then why bother spanking money on suspension upgrades.
BTW I used to be on the rennlist mailing list 10 years ago but very rarely bother to check now. Very little of relevance unless you want to tune up a turbo.
BTW I used to be on the rennlist mailing list 10 years ago but very rarely bother to check now. Very little of relevance unless you want to tune up a turbo.
peterpsg said:
Not knocking Ted & Co but there's a much better source of info for us 944 owners, this forum is more focussed on the newer models. http://forums.rennlist.com/
I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
{Pedant mode on} Think you mean a 951, which was the factory designation for the 944 Turbo. 952 refers to some parts for RHD cars, not the car itself.I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
I had a '91 944T and that was most definitely a 951 according to the VIN!
appletonn said:
peterpsg said:
Not knocking Ted & Co but there's a much better source of info for us 944 owners, this forum is more focussed on the newer models. http://forums.rennlist.com/
I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
{Pedant mode on} Think you mean a 951, which was the factory designation for the 944 Turbo. 952 refers to some parts for RHD cars, not the car itself.I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
I had a '91 944T and that was most definitely a 951 according to the VIN!
blade7 said:
appletonn said:
peterpsg said:
Not knocking Ted & Co but there's a much better source of info for us 944 owners, this forum is more focussed on the newer models. http://forums.rennlist.com/
I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
{Pedant mode on} Think you mean a 951, which was the factory designation for the 944 Turbo. 952 refers to some parts for RHD cars, not the car itself.I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
I had a '91 944T and that was most definitely a 951 according to the VIN!
appletonn said:
blade7 said:
appletonn said:
peterpsg said:
Not knocking Ted & Co but there's a much better source of info for us 944 owners, this forum is more focussed on the newer models. http://forums.rennlist.com/
I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
{Pedant mode on} Think you mean a 951, which was the factory designation for the 944 Turbo. 952 refers to some parts for RHD cars, not the car itself.I have a 952, i.e 944 Turbo S, and I'd recommend it if you can spare the money, that you get a new all round coil over set up to replace what is has now, my car has a complete set of 'KW Variant 3 Suspension', with 'Weltmeister' rollbars, and it handles pretty nicely as a result...
I had a '91 944T and that was most definitely a 951 according to the VIN!
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