Discussion
How are you all?
A 1983 928, I've been offered one. Are there areas I should be particularly looking at? Apart from routine checks? I don't know much about it other than it's done about 105,000. Oh, and the MOt's just expired! The 928 does rank in my top twenty so I am slightly tempted.
Would this be the 4.7?
Cheers.
GlennO
A 1983 928, I've been offered one. Are there areas I should be particularly looking at? Apart from routine checks? I don't know much about it other than it's done about 105,000. Oh, and the MOt's just expired! The 928 does rank in my top twenty so I am slightly tempted.
Would this be the 4.7?
Cheers.
GlennO
Hi Glenn
Personally I would run away, as it is LIKELY to be heavy maintenance wise. The 928 is an old car now. If you really love 928s or you're handy with the spanners it's worth a second look. Otherwise do the AA a favour and keep the 1500 GBP (or whatever it is up for) in your pocket.
Sorry I can't be more positive. You're a brave man even thinking about it
Domster
Personally I would run away, as it is LIKELY to be heavy maintenance wise. The 928 is an old car now. If you really love 928s or you're handy with the spanners it's worth a second look. Otherwise do the AA a favour and keep the 1500 GBP (or whatever it is up for) in your pocket.
Sorry I can't be more positive. You're a brave man even thinking about it
Domster
If you want good advice on the 928 you may not be in the right forum. Here's what I recommend:
http://members3.boardhost.com/928s4vr/
This is a "928 only" forum, and it is the most informed one I know of. Very good action too.
On this forum my identification is "P", and both I and "M21" have the '83 928S. Mine is a 5-speed, his is an automatic, and between the two of us we've done it all, including timing belts and transaxles.
The '83 was the fastest car sold in North America, and this includes any turbocharged car built by Porsche or anyone else. The Euro was considerably faster.
The '83, with a few options, cost more in 1983 than a new Boxster or Corvette costs today off the showroom floor. It was, and always will be Porsche's flagship. Cost was no object for some of the build, including the use of aluminum body panels and expensive castings on the suspension, motor, and transaxle. (
Some people may resent this, but the car has perfect balance, and this is more than many Porsche owners can claim. Despite the attempt to paint it as a heavy and poor responding car, it is actually a superb handling car. I can assure you, anyone would have to be "the devil himself" to outrun me on a back road here in Tennessee, in any car. Yes, it can be done, but I wouldn't want to be strapped in "his" passenger seat, ha ha.
The 928 has a very large racing following here in the US, and those of us lucky enough to have put considerable milage on such a beast just smile when we hear tales of fear and terror.
Relax. The 928 has no real weakness. Yes, it may be an old car, and it can be expensive to fix, but I drive mine to work every other week and I park it next to a Vanden Plas, a couple new 5 and 600 Mercedes, a new Audi, a new BMW, and some fancy new Japanese car I care not to mention. Given the choice, money being no object, I would chose the 928 over any of those cars for pure driving enjoyment. I would feel like an old man in any of the others.
My 5-speed is a bear. The shift linkage is far more stiff than a 944 series car, and the pattern is a bit of a challenge too. Once underway it can be shifted fast. The 0-60 dash requires a shift from lower left up and over to the right. Most other cars start upper left, and second is straight down to the lower left.
Since the manual is a bear, most people like the auto. The auto is very good, being a Mercedes unit adapted into a Porsche transaxle. Yes, there are things that can go wrong, but hey, it's not as if you have a twin-plug Aston DB series, sheesh, these cars have a large tech and parts following.
I would toss all the old relays and install new ones. The fuel injection relay, if it fails, can leave you stranded. This is no different than any computerized fuel injected 911 series car, as they all use the (same) relays. The timing belt must be changed unless you have proof positive it was changed within 5-years or 40 or 50,000 miles. Other than that, the temp-II sensor, thermo time switch, both controlling the cold start valve, could cause some drivability problems, but those are both easy to reach from the front of the motor.
With only 100,000 or so miles, a 928 is barely broken in. There are many tales of these cars running 300,000 miles. Tales of their demise are greatly overesaggerated.
Having said that, you need to be prepared to spend some money in the event it is needed, and not cower in fear about something going wrong. I have three waterpumpers and they've been very very reliable. The worst thing you can do is drive them only occasionally. They should be driven at least once a week.
Check the car out carefully. If it has a good history, drives well, looks good, and the price is in line, you will probably be getting the biggest engineering bang for the buck available to the driving enthusiast. I got mine for $8500 US, and it had something like 114,000 when I got it. 12,000 miles later, the motor still sounds absolutely awesome, oil pressure is still perfect, and I'm grinning the entire time I'm behind the wheel because I appreciate the machinery and I'm also laughing a the prices some of those other people paid to get far less car. Do a search on my prev posts and you'll find some more 928 info, and hope to see you at the other forum if (when?) you get the 928 bug.
Regards, Dogsharks A/K/A "P"
Visit my 1983 928S 5-speed page:
http://sis125.berkeley.edu/928/en-mrp.html
See all 3 of my wasserpumpers, the roads I drive on, and tech info about the 944 and 928:
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289802879
(the imagestation album referenced above requires a sign up to see the album, but it's quick and worth it. Click on "index" and see thumbnails of all photos.)
http://members3.boardhost.com/928s4vr/
This is a "928 only" forum, and it is the most informed one I know of. Very good action too.
On this forum my identification is "P", and both I and "M21" have the '83 928S. Mine is a 5-speed, his is an automatic, and between the two of us we've done it all, including timing belts and transaxles.
The '83 was the fastest car sold in North America, and this includes any turbocharged car built by Porsche or anyone else. The Euro was considerably faster.
The '83, with a few options, cost more in 1983 than a new Boxster or Corvette costs today off the showroom floor. It was, and always will be Porsche's flagship. Cost was no object for some of the build, including the use of aluminum body panels and expensive castings on the suspension, motor, and transaxle. (
Some people may resent this, but the car has perfect balance, and this is more than many Porsche owners can claim. Despite the attempt to paint it as a heavy and poor responding car, it is actually a superb handling car. I can assure you, anyone would have to be "the devil himself" to outrun me on a back road here in Tennessee, in any car. Yes, it can be done, but I wouldn't want to be strapped in "his" passenger seat, ha ha.
The 928 has a very large racing following here in the US, and those of us lucky enough to have put considerable milage on such a beast just smile when we hear tales of fear and terror.
Relax. The 928 has no real weakness. Yes, it may be an old car, and it can be expensive to fix, but I drive mine to work every other week and I park it next to a Vanden Plas, a couple new 5 and 600 Mercedes, a new Audi, a new BMW, and some fancy new Japanese car I care not to mention. Given the choice, money being no object, I would chose the 928 over any of those cars for pure driving enjoyment. I would feel like an old man in any of the others.
My 5-speed is a bear. The shift linkage is far more stiff than a 944 series car, and the pattern is a bit of a challenge too. Once underway it can be shifted fast. The 0-60 dash requires a shift from lower left up and over to the right. Most other cars start upper left, and second is straight down to the lower left.
Since the manual is a bear, most people like the auto. The auto is very good, being a Mercedes unit adapted into a Porsche transaxle. Yes, there are things that can go wrong, but hey, it's not as if you have a twin-plug Aston DB series, sheesh, these cars have a large tech and parts following.
I would toss all the old relays and install new ones. The fuel injection relay, if it fails, can leave you stranded. This is no different than any computerized fuel injected 911 series car, as they all use the (same) relays. The timing belt must be changed unless you have proof positive it was changed within 5-years or 40 or 50,000 miles. Other than that, the temp-II sensor, thermo time switch, both controlling the cold start valve, could cause some drivability problems, but those are both easy to reach from the front of the motor.
With only 100,000 or so miles, a 928 is barely broken in. There are many tales of these cars running 300,000 miles. Tales of their demise are greatly overesaggerated.
Having said that, you need to be prepared to spend some money in the event it is needed, and not cower in fear about something going wrong. I have three waterpumpers and they've been very very reliable. The worst thing you can do is drive them only occasionally. They should be driven at least once a week.
Check the car out carefully. If it has a good history, drives well, looks good, and the price is in line, you will probably be getting the biggest engineering bang for the buck available to the driving enthusiast. I got mine for $8500 US, and it had something like 114,000 when I got it. 12,000 miles later, the motor still sounds absolutely awesome, oil pressure is still perfect, and I'm grinning the entire time I'm behind the wheel because I appreciate the machinery and I'm also laughing a the prices some of those other people paid to get far less car. Do a search on my prev posts and you'll find some more 928 info, and hope to see you at the other forum if (when?) you get the 928 bug.
Regards, Dogsharks A/K/A "P"
Visit my 1983 928S 5-speed page:
http://sis125.berkeley.edu/928/en-mrp.html
See all 3 of my wasserpumpers, the roads I drive on, and tech info about the 944 and 928:
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289802879
(the imagestation album referenced above requires a sign up to see the album, but it's quick and worth it. Click on "index" and see thumbnails of all photos.)
I guess it'll be a 928S with the 4.5 engine. The issue here is the cost of putting anything right. Don't buy it without an MOT as that will show up the obvious stuff. Then check that all the electrics work - even putting right an electric seat will cost. Then there are the dampers - I've driven a nubmer of 928s whose suspension has seen better days and they wallow like hippos, and on such a heavy car the damping has to be spot on to make it a pleasure to drive.
...and I really would recommend that you get an inspection carried out by a good independent specialist, don't bother with an OPC. Tell us where you live and I'm sure we can recommend a specialist in your area.
Price-wise? anything less than a 928 S2 is not worth much at all. With high mileage 928 S4s (the more desirable of the non GT/GTS cars)starting at under £4k, your car is going to struggle to better £3k to be honest, and my advice would be to look for an S4 that has been well looked after and don't worry too much about the mileage.
As a guide, a 67k mile very clean S4 in black with black leather sold recently for £5,400.
If your car is an S2 and passes an inspection and can be bought for Dom's £1500, then it'll make a good "smoker" and you'll pull all of Basildon's female population if you pitch up outside Raquel's in it
...and I really would recommend that you get an inspection carried out by a good independent specialist, don't bother with an OPC. Tell us where you live and I'm sure we can recommend a specialist in your area.
Price-wise? anything less than a 928 S2 is not worth much at all. With high mileage 928 S4s (the more desirable of the non GT/GTS cars)starting at under £4k, your car is going to struggle to better £3k to be honest, and my advice would be to look for an S4 that has been well looked after and don't worry too much about the mileage.
As a guide, a 67k mile very clean S4 in black with black leather sold recently for £5,400.
If your car is an S2 and passes an inspection and can be bought for Dom's £1500, then it'll make a good "smoker" and you'll pull all of Basildon's female population if you pitch up outside Raquel's in it
Firstly, you are in the wrong forum. For some reason 928 are not particularly liked here. Maybe because when on form (maintained with care and love) they usually spank almost anything but 911 Turbos at Bedford 
It will be a 928S 4.7l, with the mechanical CIS injection by Bosch, putting around 300Bhp. No, they are not expensive to mainatain as there are a number of specialists who both offer reasonable labor rates and new and second hand parts. No, they don't break down easily if they are catered for. Yes, they are overengineered - if my 928S2 was good enough for one of the Ultima designers, then... Yes, they provide limitless amount of fun for the money...Go to [url]www.928.org.uk[/url] where you will find plenty of info and help...
It will be a 928S 4.7l, with the mechanical CIS injection by Bosch, putting around 300Bhp. No, they are not expensive to mainatain as there are a number of specialists who both offer reasonable labor rates and new and second hand parts. No, they don't break down easily if they are catered for. Yes, they are overengineered - if my 928S2 was good enough for one of the Ultima designers, then... Yes, they provide limitless amount of fun for the money...Go to [url]www.928.org.uk[/url] where you will find plenty of info and help...
I like 928s. I also like 944s, 911s, 968s etc etc (don't much care for 914s tho). However, this guy has asked for advice here on a 928 purchase. My advice isn't biased in any way AFAIK - just trying to give him some facts without rose tinted specs getting in the way.
The point is that if the main mechnical elements of any Porsche go pop the owner is going to end up with a sizeable bill, even allowing for the use of secondhand parts - specialists' rates are north of £50 an hour aren't they?
....and for me personally, the resale value (and appetite) of any car I buy is a factor in my decision to buy it.
The point is that if the main mechnical elements of any Porsche go pop the owner is going to end up with a sizeable bill, even allowing for the use of secondhand parts - specialists' rates are north of £50 an hour aren't they?
....and for me personally, the resale value (and appetite) of any car I buy is a factor in my decision to buy it.
Yet another excellent post from dogsharks.
No rose tinted specs from me. I've owned both 996 C2 and Boxster S, and curently own a 928. FWIW, I think the 928 is easily as much fun to drive as the other two,and far more comfortable as a 'just get me home' car. The secret pleasure I get from knowing the 928 delivers so much for such little cash just adds to its appeal.
Get the car checked over and be prepared to spend money if things go wrong, but I've now done 12k miles in mine, and apart from a recalcitrant seat motor, nothing's gone wrong. It's truly a great car.
No rose tinted specs from me. I've owned both 996 C2 and Boxster S, and curently own a 928. FWIW, I think the 928 is easily as much fun to drive as the other two,and far more comfortable as a 'just get me home' car. The secret pleasure I get from knowing the 928 delivers so much for such little cash just adds to its appeal.
Get the car checked over and be prepared to spend money if things go wrong, but I've now done 12k miles in mine, and apart from a recalcitrant seat motor, nothing's gone wrong. It's truly a great car.
cheburator said:
Firstly, you are in the wrong forum. For some reason 928 are not particularly liked here. Maybe because when on form (maintained with care and love) they usually spank almost anything but 911 Turbos at Bedford
Stop being so reactionary
. Anyone buying a cheap 1983 Porsche of any denomination needs to know the risks in terms of reliability and running costs. This forum is for all lovers of pork, but more specialist forums may obviously be more supportive as they are very loyal (if not blindly loyal!) to 'their' particular model.
And don't forget that RS 911s also spank 928s at Bedford, as well as the Turbos
In fact I even outdragged a 928S4 on the A34 once in a straight line, so no corners need to be involved 
At that age and mileage, I'm guessing it has been sparingly used of late, which is when things usually start to go wrong.
Offer to pay to have it MOT'd. An MOT will show up a lot of basic faults. If that goes ok, pay to have it inspected by someone who knows these cars inside out. A few quid spent now could save you big ££££'s later.
I hope it works out, I think 928's are great cars, but go in with your eyes open. If the owner has let the MOT lapse, chances are it will be pretty rough.
Offer to pay to have it MOT'd. An MOT will show up a lot of basic faults. If that goes ok, pay to have it inspected by someone who knows these cars inside out. A few quid spent now could save you big ££££'s later.
I hope it works out, I think 928's are great cars, but go in with your eyes open. If the owner has let the MOT lapse, chances are it will be pretty rough.
domster said:
Stop being so reactionary
...My comment was tongue-in-cheek. I am sorry if I have offended anybody from the 911-brotherhood
domster said:
And don't forget that RS 911s also spank 928s at Bedford, as well as the Turbos
...Agreed.
As for the reality of owning a 928... I agree that it could be a financial disaster. But I have pointed to an enthusiasts' website [url]www.928.org.uk[/url] (Ted, I hope that's OK with you) , which offers possibly the best advice in the UK in terms of buying, running, tracking or even selling a Shark...
I parked my '83 Shark next to a new Carrera of the same color the other day. As I walked fore and aft looking both of the impressive cars over, I saw a familiar family history, but I was quite amazed how tall and old fashioned the new car looked next to a now 21-year old design. The 928 was lower and the design had more continuity. The new Carerra was remarkably tall and had "appendages" that looked like it had been on steroids. The design was, well, "nice" but certainly nothing to put in the museum of modern art (especially from the rear, as the front of the car is just fine). Don't get me wrong, I LIKE THE NEW CAR, and I like it a LOT. However, the older car is still quite viable. Since they were offered with glass cylinder walls, they are also just about indestructable if cared for.
To get an idea what I'm talking about, notice the very last few seconds of this short MPG, and you'll see how positively tall a 911 looks next to the lower and wider (and faster) 928. It surprises me that even with the new Carerra, they are still hanging onto a body shape around the cockpit that was started in the early sixties, nearly 50-years ago. Why so tall???
www.pacificnw928.com/downloads/DonHanson13April2003-01.wmv
As for the value of the cars.........thankfully for the informed enthusiast, there are apparently a lot of frightened people running around. Apparently there are a lot of people who are reluctant to become informed, and then experience the huge pleasure of owning a 928. You see, "anyone can own a new one". All you have to do is scrape up the cash. Only a few can own the older ones, because it takes more than cash to do it...........it takes "information". Once you have the information, then you can dole out the cash when you need to, but you must first understand all about the car if you're going to own one. It's so much easier to drive one off the showroom and take off, knowing virtually nothing about the mechanicals.
As long as there are frightened people out there, there will be an inexhaustible supply of 928 cars for the rest of us.
(guys, chill out a bit, I'm poking some fun at our esteemed 911 and Boxster friends :-)
Cheers!
Dogsharks
>> Edited by dogsharks on Thursday 4th March 15:15
To get an idea what I'm talking about, notice the very last few seconds of this short MPG, and you'll see how positively tall a 911 looks next to the lower and wider (and faster) 928. It surprises me that even with the new Carerra, they are still hanging onto a body shape around the cockpit that was started in the early sixties, nearly 50-years ago. Why so tall???
www.pacificnw928.com/downloads/DonHanson13April2003-01.wmv
As for the value of the cars.........thankfully for the informed enthusiast, there are apparently a lot of frightened people running around. Apparently there are a lot of people who are reluctant to become informed, and then experience the huge pleasure of owning a 928. You see, "anyone can own a new one". All you have to do is scrape up the cash. Only a few can own the older ones, because it takes more than cash to do it...........it takes "information". Once you have the information, then you can dole out the cash when you need to, but you must first understand all about the car if you're going to own one. It's so much easier to drive one off the showroom and take off, knowing virtually nothing about the mechanicals.
As long as there are frightened people out there, there will be an inexhaustible supply of 928 cars for the rest of us.
(guys, chill out a bit, I'm poking some fun at our esteemed 911 and Boxster friends :-)
Cheers!
Dogsharks
>> Edited by dogsharks on Thursday 4th March 15:15
No probs Mr Cherub
I personally like the 928 (GTS especially), but think older ones can be in the 'enthusiast's project car' category only these days. Not everyone has the expertise, contacts and technical knowledge of 928meisters like Doggysharks... DS could probably rebuild a car with his bare teeth whilst listening to some Dixieland blues
You are also free to post links, as long as it is in PHers' interests (which it is
) and not for commercial gain (ie you don't own the 928 website).
ATB
Dom
I personally like the 928 (GTS especially), but think older ones can be in the 'enthusiast's project car' category only these days. Not everyone has the expertise, contacts and technical knowledge of 928meisters like Doggysharks... DS could probably rebuild a car with his bare teeth whilst listening to some Dixieland blues
You are also free to post links, as long as it is in PHers' interests (which it is
) and not for commercial gain (ie you don't own the 928 website). ATB
Dom
Thanks for the response lads, a good mixture of opinions! The maintenance does scare me a little especially as I would be scratching around to buy it in the first place.
I do find it hard to ignore a car with such presence and beauty though? More menacing than a 911 although perhaps a little more traditional.
Anyway thanks again, very helpful, I'll let you know what I decide.
GlennO
I do find it hard to ignore a car with such presence and beauty though? More menacing than a 911 although perhaps a little more traditional.
Anyway thanks again, very helpful, I'll let you know what I decide.
GlennO
Glen, most of us have "taken the plunge" at one time or another. Just walk out to the end of the diving board, hold your nose, don't look down, and just step off. Yes, the water may be cold, but it's a temporary inconvenience.
On any older complex car, there "will" be some pain, but the rewards will be there too. We have all been there, so that should be of some comfort.
Dogsharks
On any older complex car, there "will" be some pain, but the rewards will be there too. We have all been there, so that should be of some comfort.
Dogsharks
Glenn, the key to this isn't a dodgy electric seat motor or not functioning windows - believe me, these older cars are built beautifully and can be taken apart and fixed repaltively easily - secondhand window motors are cheap, for example. I've replaced a few in 911s in my time and marvel at the way the things are constructed.
The real killer is the oily bits. There's a 1988 928 S4 on Autotrader for £3450 right now - why?..."slight gearbox problem" that's why....
...if the 'box, engine or back axle are in any way iffy, you're going to do big money sorting them out. Get the car MOTd and ask the MOT guy to have a look round. Even better, get the seller to take it to an independent specialist near you and pay them £200 or whatever to check it over. Best £200 you'll spend, I'll wager.
But a cheap, reliable 928 is so much better than a Nova or AX right?
The real killer is the oily bits. There's a 1988 928 S4 on Autotrader for £3450 right now - why?..."slight gearbox problem" that's why....
...if the 'box, engine or back axle are in any way iffy, you're going to do big money sorting them out. Get the car MOTd and ask the MOT guy to have a look round. Even better, get the seller to take it to an independent specialist near you and pay them £200 or whatever to check it over. Best £200 you'll spend, I'll wager.
But a cheap, reliable 928 is so much better than a Nova or AX right?
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff