996tt owners visual corrosion inspection rear end.
Discussion
Hi all,
I would like to call on all 996tt owners to stick their heads under the rear bumper/fender and have a look at the exhaust/ turbo. Have a close look at all the nuts to the silencer and turbo and also have a look at your wastgate and actuator rods & actuator and as best as you can the Turbo bearing housings. This is a good idea for your own peace of mind. Your Porsche dealer will not tell you about this form of corrosion and it is not covered in the maintenance schedules.
I have had a look at a 3 year old 997tt and it was not good so don’t think because you have a later 996tt it will be ok.
To put thing right ( your self) if the corrosion is very bad can set you back about £5000/£6000 buying the parts from Porsche ( including Turbos, which I didn't).
I don’t expect you to slag your car off over the net, but be honest, lets see if there are more cars out there apart from mine. All you have to say is you have a problem.
Its not the end of the world, but you do really need to know how bad it could be,
especially if you intend to keep the car like me.
Sorry for the downer, its not meant to be. I would just like to know if I am the only one, which I know is not the case. Its all well and good if the car looks a $1000000 but if underneath look like a Trabant then its time to fix it.
NB Safety notice, I only realised I had a problem when one of my Turbo heat shields spun down the road at 70 mph narrowly avoiding another car. The wastegate had seized shut so I was still pulling good boost the rod had also corroded throught and snapped. The clamp bolt holding the silencer onto the engine creadle normally 8mm was 4mm in diameter ( rusted away). This is just the safty side of things. There was lots more.
Can of worms springs to mind, but as the saying goes you have to break eggs to make an Omelette !
I look forward to hearing from you.
It would be nice to hear from the good cars too, not just the corroded ones.
Frank.
I would like to call on all 996tt owners to stick their heads under the rear bumper/fender and have a look at the exhaust/ turbo. Have a close look at all the nuts to the silencer and turbo and also have a look at your wastgate and actuator rods & actuator and as best as you can the Turbo bearing housings. This is a good idea for your own peace of mind. Your Porsche dealer will not tell you about this form of corrosion and it is not covered in the maintenance schedules.
I have had a look at a 3 year old 997tt and it was not good so don’t think because you have a later 996tt it will be ok.
To put thing right ( your self) if the corrosion is very bad can set you back about £5000/£6000 buying the parts from Porsche ( including Turbos, which I didn't).
I don’t expect you to slag your car off over the net, but be honest, lets see if there are more cars out there apart from mine. All you have to say is you have a problem.
Its not the end of the world, but you do really need to know how bad it could be,
especially if you intend to keep the car like me.
Sorry for the downer, its not meant to be. I would just like to know if I am the only one, which I know is not the case. Its all well and good if the car looks a $1000000 but if underneath look like a Trabant then its time to fix it.
NB Safety notice, I only realised I had a problem when one of my Turbo heat shields spun down the road at 70 mph narrowly avoiding another car. The wastegate had seized shut so I was still pulling good boost the rod had also corroded throught and snapped. The clamp bolt holding the silencer onto the engine creadle normally 8mm was 4mm in diameter ( rusted away). This is just the safty side of things. There was lots more.
Can of worms springs to mind, but as the saying goes you have to break eggs to make an Omelette !
I look forward to hearing from you.
It would be nice to hear from the good cars too, not just the corroded ones.
Frank.
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Tuesday 25th May 11:55
Hi,
This problem is not unique to the Turbos.
The problem is that whilst the main exhaust system on the water cooled models (986/987/996/997) is stainless steel all the nuts/bolts are plain old steel and rust really badly. I have a 2006 997 C2S and some of the nuts are flaking away. My winter project will be to replace these with new (preferably stainless steel) ones.
I asked my OPC about the problem and they agreed the nuts were rusty but as they are not causing a problem will do nothing about it under warranty - I didn't expect them too but you have too ask...
This problem is not unique to the Turbos.
The problem is that whilst the main exhaust system on the water cooled models (986/987/996/997) is stainless steel all the nuts/bolts are plain old steel and rust really badly. I have a 2006 997 C2S and some of the nuts are flaking away. My winter project will be to replace these with new (preferably stainless steel) ones.
I asked my OPC about the problem and they agreed the nuts were rusty but as they are not causing a problem will do nothing about it under warranty - I didn't expect them too but you have too ask...
Sunnysidebb said:
Hi all,
I would like to call on all 996tt owners to stick their heads under the rear bumper/fender and have a look at the exhaust/ turbo. Have a close look at all the nuts to the silencer and turbo and also have a look at your wastgate and actuator rods & actuator and as best as you can the Turbo bearing housings. This is a good idea for your own peace of mind. Your Porsche dealer will not tell you about this form of corrosion and it is not covered in the maintenance schedules.
I have had a look at a 3 year old 997tt and it was not good so don’t think because you have a later 996tt it will be ok.
To put thing right ( your self) if the corrosion is very bad can set you back about £5000/£6000 buying the parts from Porsche ( including Turbos, which I didn't).
I don’t expect you to slag your car off over the net, but be honest, lets see if there are more cars out there apart from mine. All you have to say is you have a problem.
Its not the end of the world, but you do really need to know how bad it could be,
especially if you intend to keep the car like me.
Sorry for the downer, its not meant to be. I would just like to know if I am the only one, which I know is not the case. Its all well and good if the car looks a $1000000 but if underneath look like a Trabant then its time to fix it.
NB Safety notice, I only realised I had a problem when one of my Turbo heat shields spun down the road at 70 mph narrowly avoiding another car. The wastegate had seized shut so I was still pulling good boost the rod had also corroded throught and snapped. The clamp bolt holding the silencer onto the engine creadle normally 8mm was 4mm in diameter ( rusted away). This is just the safty side of things. There was lots more.
Can of worms springs to mind, but as the saying goes you have to break eggs to make an Omelette !
I look forward to hearing from you.
It would be nice to hear from the good cars too, not just the corroded ones.
Frank.
As far as Porsche AG is concerned turbo heatshields are a consumable (and have been for some time, as exactly the same issues afflicted the 993 Turbo)I would like to call on all 996tt owners to stick their heads under the rear bumper/fender and have a look at the exhaust/ turbo. Have a close look at all the nuts to the silencer and turbo and also have a look at your wastgate and actuator rods & actuator and as best as you can the Turbo bearing housings. This is a good idea for your own peace of mind. Your Porsche dealer will not tell you about this form of corrosion and it is not covered in the maintenance schedules.
I have had a look at a 3 year old 997tt and it was not good so don’t think because you have a later 996tt it will be ok.
To put thing right ( your self) if the corrosion is very bad can set you back about £5000/£6000 buying the parts from Porsche ( including Turbos, which I didn't).
I don’t expect you to slag your car off over the net, but be honest, lets see if there are more cars out there apart from mine. All you have to say is you have a problem.
Its not the end of the world, but you do really need to know how bad it could be,
especially if you intend to keep the car like me.
Sorry for the downer, its not meant to be. I would just like to know if I am the only one, which I know is not the case. Its all well and good if the car looks a $1000000 but if underneath look like a Trabant then its time to fix it.
NB Safety notice, I only realised I had a problem when one of my Turbo heat shields spun down the road at 70 mph narrowly avoiding another car. The wastegate had seized shut so I was still pulling good boost the rod had also corroded throught and snapped. The clamp bolt holding the silencer onto the engine creadle normally 8mm was 4mm in diameter ( rusted away). This is just the safty side of things. There was lots more.
Can of worms springs to mind, but as the saying goes you have to break eggs to make an Omelette !
I look forward to hearing from you.
It would be nice to hear from the good cars too, not just the corroded ones.
Frank.
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Tuesday 25th May 11:55
Whereas once they may have been made out of high grade stainless or an aluminium/asbestos composite, now they're made out of products far cheaper and thus less durable.
Unfortunately any heat shield in close proximity to the turbos will suffer regular and mssive heat cycling, add in the vageries of the British weather (and the salt used to clear our roads) and their life expectancy is reduced considerably. The same applies to all the fixings used on the turbo flanges, catalysts, silencer boxes etc.
When I looked at the underside of my 997 GT3 I was dismayed to see the poor quality of the heatshields, bumper supports etc. A sure sign that the company is run by bean counters and not engineers these days. Whilst they are still fantastic cars, regretably they're not engineered in the way they used to be.
Sunnyside Frank... do I know you at all?... I noticed you are in Edinburgh?
I also noticed you posted on nearly every Porsche forum worldwide in the last few days
What on earth is going on with your car man
... also a Valve has kissed a Piston on one of your posts!!!
Sounds like you have picked up a bit of a nightmare
I also noticed you posted on nearly every Porsche forum worldwide in the last few days
What on earth is going on with your car man
... also a Valve has kissed a Piston on one of your posts!!!Sounds like you have picked up a bit of a nightmare
Edited by 996TT_STEVO on Tuesday 25th May 15:37
Hi Steveo,
Nope, I am only on 2 forums this and 6 speed.
There might be another Sunnyside but I dont think so.
I'm from Loch Lomond on the west side not Edinburgh, so must be some one else.
I have only corrosion problems at the rear and a pipe that a Jack crusched.
Frank.
Edit:
Ah Ha, Stevo, just noticed there is another Sunnyside. We are Sunnysidebb short for Sunnyside B&B. A large guest house not far from the Bonnie Banks Of Loch Lomond....so the song goes. So if you are in the area and you need some where to stay Our website is: www.sunnysidebb.co.uk (enought of the advertisments). LOL
ps anybody know how to spell check before submitting..... I could do with using it.
Nope, I am only on 2 forums this and 6 speed.
There might be another Sunnyside but I dont think so.
I'm from Loch Lomond on the west side not Edinburgh, so must be some one else.
I have only corrosion problems at the rear and a pipe that a Jack crusched.
Frank.
Edit:
Ah Ha, Stevo, just noticed there is another Sunnyside. We are Sunnysidebb short for Sunnyside B&B. A large guest house not far from the Bonnie Banks Of Loch Lomond....so the song goes. So if you are in the area and you need some where to stay Our website is: www.sunnysidebb.co.uk (enought of the advertisments). LOL
ps anybody know how to spell check before submitting..... I could do with using it.
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Tuesday 25th May 15:53
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Tuesday 25th May 16:49
The manifold-turbo exhaust housing studs and nuts seems to dissolve to nothing at the first sign of water on 996TTs. I noticed also on my last service that they had replaced the jubilee clips that connect the hose to the intercooler, as they were badly corroded. Turbo heat shields well known for serious corrosion and also for being a b**tch to replace beacuse of surrounding corrosion on nuts and fixings etc. The best way to avoid wastgate problems is to use the car daily and use full boost so the rod is being used over its full range of movement.
Edited by markcoznottz on Tuesday 25th May 18:34
Whats frightening to know is the silencer which must weight about 30kg is held on with 2 Stainless steel straps. Great. But the straps are pulled together with 2 M8 steel bolts. When I took the silencer off to start on the rest of the corrosion problems those 2 M8 bolt were 4mm in diameter. They were wasted away.
It took no effort to shear them. Another 12 months already no nuts holding the turbos to the silencer I think it could very well have dropped off.
Just a thought.
Frank
It took no effort to shear them. Another 12 months already no nuts holding the turbos to the silencer I think it could very well have dropped off.
Just a thought.
Frank
Hi Jim & all
Thanks for the positive advice its needed at the moment.
The trouble is on any site where members can write posts it is natural to overstate your problems.I have in no way overstated this issue, infact I cant put the correct word together to do it justice.All i would say, if there is anybody with corrosion problems this bad or worse get it sorted now before something major happens. There is talk of cleaning and WD 40 ( which works wonders I have to say) but if like me you have a second hand car ( had it 3 years)keeping it clean underneath from now on is not going to help at all. The damage has been done.
I have mentioned that I have seen a 3 year old 997tt well on the way to looking like mine. I am not and will not go down the road of making things sound worse than they really are. This is a disgrace for a car which cost me near £60,000 in 2007.
For eg
I have bought 50 copper coated exhaust nuts for £4 why didn't Porsche use them??
Why hold up stainless steel pipes with pressed mild steel brackets??
Why use mild steel heat shields but put a single stainless reinforcement in the middle of it??
Why use steel bolts to hold up the silencer when they have used stainless steel banding and stainless steel captive nuts.??
My problem is I am a hands on guy. I have built every rally car I have owned, from bare shells to respraying so I have an interest in doing thing right. A Gp A Escort Cosworth doing 120mph down a Country track say in otterburn, has got to stay together, if it dosn't well curtains. No different to a road car its nice to know the nuts and bolts will stay together not just after a few years but in some cases the life of the Car.
Having said that I still Love my Turbo and I am in the process of doing all the work that has to bo done and much more. Yes and its still the best sports car capable of doing all the day to day journeys and still give you that feel good factor.
Frank
ps Once again thanks for the encouragment, lets hope she is back on the road soon.
Thanks for the positive advice its needed at the moment.
The trouble is on any site where members can write posts it is natural to overstate your problems.I have in no way overstated this issue, infact I cant put the correct word together to do it justice.All i would say, if there is anybody with corrosion problems this bad or worse get it sorted now before something major happens. There is talk of cleaning and WD 40 ( which works wonders I have to say) but if like me you have a second hand car ( had it 3 years)keeping it clean underneath from now on is not going to help at all. The damage has been done.
I have mentioned that I have seen a 3 year old 997tt well on the way to looking like mine. I am not and will not go down the road of making things sound worse than they really are. This is a disgrace for a car which cost me near £60,000 in 2007.
For eg
I have bought 50 copper coated exhaust nuts for £4 why didn't Porsche use them??
Why hold up stainless steel pipes with pressed mild steel brackets??
Why use mild steel heat shields but put a single stainless reinforcement in the middle of it??
Why use steel bolts to hold up the silencer when they have used stainless steel banding and stainless steel captive nuts.??
My problem is I am a hands on guy. I have built every rally car I have owned, from bare shells to respraying so I have an interest in doing thing right. A Gp A Escort Cosworth doing 120mph down a Country track say in otterburn, has got to stay together, if it dosn't well curtains. No different to a road car its nice to know the nuts and bolts will stay together not just after a few years but in some cases the life of the Car.
Having said that I still Love my Turbo and I am in the process of doing all the work that has to bo done and much more. Yes and its still the best sports car capable of doing all the day to day journeys and still give you that feel good factor.
Frank
ps Once again thanks for the encouragment, lets hope she is back on the road soon.
Oh no it isn't,
I have had the car 3 years it had 27,000 on the clock, it now has 51,000. Not forgetting this is a public site and can be view by anybody..... I don't drive my 996tt like I drive my discovery if you know what I mean.
Once that metal cancer sets in the wastgate gets harder to open and shut and the actuator arm (which is by now corroded to within the breaking strain of a plastic fork) snaps. If the wastgate has now seized in the shut position you will never know and now the boost will not go up because the control valve allows more pressure to the other actuator which ( if not seized ) opens even more than normal and keeps the boost to the level that the DME is asking for. Trust me I know this is what happened to me. I didn't know I had a problem and even now if I hadn't seen the heat shield spin down the motorway at 70 mph and disintegrate like its been hit by a photon torpedo I would still be driving the car now. Most Likely within the next 9 months there would have been bigger things happen.
It really isn't that simple to think that your pride and Joy 996tt has got some serious problems. I really do honestly wish it's just my car with the serious corrosion issue Sadly I don't think so. Its not the end of the world I can fix it but it does make you think about servicing the parts the garages don't touch. I have a warranty, like most Porsche owners but, if your Turbo disintegrates from corrosion like mine, they wont pay out. To them Corrosion is a kin to poor or lack of maintenance and is excluded.
Frank
I have had the car 3 years it had 27,000 on the clock, it now has 51,000. Not forgetting this is a public site and can be view by anybody..... I don't drive my 996tt like I drive my discovery if you know what I mean.
Once that metal cancer sets in the wastgate gets harder to open and shut and the actuator arm (which is by now corroded to within the breaking strain of a plastic fork) snaps. If the wastgate has now seized in the shut position you will never know and now the boost will not go up because the control valve allows more pressure to the other actuator which ( if not seized ) opens even more than normal and keeps the boost to the level that the DME is asking for. Trust me I know this is what happened to me. I didn't know I had a problem and even now if I hadn't seen the heat shield spin down the motorway at 70 mph and disintegrate like its been hit by a photon torpedo I would still be driving the car now. Most Likely within the next 9 months there would have been bigger things happen.
It really isn't that simple to think that your pride and Joy 996tt has got some serious problems. I really do honestly wish it's just my car with the serious corrosion issue Sadly I don't think so. Its not the end of the world I can fix it but it does make you think about servicing the parts the garages don't touch. I have a warranty, like most Porsche owners but, if your Turbo disintegrates from corrosion like mine, they wont pay out. To them Corrosion is a kin to poor or lack of maintenance and is excluded.
Frank
Sunnysidebb said:
Oh no it isn't,
I have had the car 3 years it had 27,000 on the clock, it now has 51,000.
Mate, that's occasional use by my standards - 8,000 miles per year! I have had the car 3 years it had 27,000 on the clock, it now has 51,000.
I did 8,000 miles in the first four months of owning mine... OK, I haven't looked at the heat shields yet, but I expect they will be rusty - just like they were on my C4, but hey, if you want to drive a car that was £100,000 when it was new, you've got to expect some big bills for something when it gets to 8, 9, 10 years old.
At least I didn't spend £1400 per year on a warranty that I can't claim from...
Sunnysidebb said:
I have bought 50 copper coated exhaust nuts for £4 why didn't Porsche use them??
Why hold up stainless steel pipes with pressed mild steel brackets??
Why use mild steel heat shields but put a single stainless reinforcement in the middle of it??
Why use steel bolts to hold up the silencer when they have used stainless steel banding and stainless steel captive nuts??
In one word ?Why hold up stainless steel pipes with pressed mild steel brackets??
Why use mild steel heat shields but put a single stainless reinforcement in the middle of it??
Why use steel bolts to hold up the silencer when they have used stainless steel banding and stainless steel captive nuts??
Cost.
As you've found out to your cost, you can't warrant against corrosion. I've no doubt that similar cars in Califoria or indeed any other hot dry country will find the components are less likely to oxidise so quickly as those in out wet climate.
You'll most likely be aware that stainless nuts and bolts unless used with the correct locking nuts have a propensity to come undone. I had the same issue with my 993 RS exhaust and thought I was being clever fitting all stainless fixings. Even though I tightened everything fully, several weeks later they'd come loose.
Remember too that stainless galls if overtightened (always use an anti galling product before assembly) if you don't, that simple job becomes an absolute 'mare because the fixings have "welded" themselves to one another. . . .
Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 26th May 23:21
Your right about the galling, its happened to me a few times when working with hight pressure micro piping.(Thermal Imaging cameras use 4000psi air in stainless pipes and fittings) I'm using copper coated steel nuts and copper crest anti-seize compound. I am going to do allot of the servicing myself from now on and will check all the areas that have caused problems.
I don't mind doing all this work and enjoy getting my hands dirty,however its not me who had been servicing the car.It has a full Porsche service record so this is somewhat a PITA. WE own a Guest House and work about 16 to 18 hrs days, this is why I sold my Cosworths which had just as much spent on them as my996tt cost. I just don't have the time to tinker with cars any more. Looks like form now on I will just have to get back into the swing, find time and enjoy the good old days of "Oily Hands".
My advice still stands to all 996tt owners "stick your head under the back of your car and find out if your Garage/ local workshop has been turning a blind eye to corrosion"
If you have just bought the car second hand do you think your dealer will tell you about the corrosion. If they fix it before they sell it they have to pay. If they fix it after you have bought it you will have to pay but...would you/should you having just bought the car. You first question will be well why have you just sold me a car with corrosion like this. Its a dilemma.
So best all round to ignore the problem ( NOT). That might be an option for Porsche and the workshops but not me. I could have so easily have missed this and whats worse sold it privately to some one a bit bigger than me who comes back and reads me my Horoscope, with a big fist. lol
Its true to say that a lot of state side owners might not have this problem so it must be hard to get an angle on the scale of what I am talking about. Its the UK cars I think will be quietly suffering in silence. Not the enthusiast but the owner who just bought it to drive and never gets underneath.
Anyway, thanks for the comments.
I promise to post a review and pictures of the completed car once up and running.
I don't mind doing all this work and enjoy getting my hands dirty,however its not me who had been servicing the car.It has a full Porsche service record so this is somewhat a PITA. WE own a Guest House and work about 16 to 18 hrs days, this is why I sold my Cosworths which had just as much spent on them as my996tt cost. I just don't have the time to tinker with cars any more. Looks like form now on I will just have to get back into the swing, find time and enjoy the good old days of "Oily Hands".
My advice still stands to all 996tt owners "stick your head under the back of your car and find out if your Garage/ local workshop has been turning a blind eye to corrosion"
If you have just bought the car second hand do you think your dealer will tell you about the corrosion. If they fix it before they sell it they have to pay. If they fix it after you have bought it you will have to pay but...would you/should you having just bought the car. You first question will be well why have you just sold me a car with corrosion like this. Its a dilemma.
So best all round to ignore the problem ( NOT). That might be an option for Porsche and the workshops but not me. I could have so easily have missed this and whats worse sold it privately to some one a bit bigger than me who comes back and reads me my Horoscope, with a big fist. lol
Its true to say that a lot of state side owners might not have this problem so it must be hard to get an angle on the scale of what I am talking about. Its the UK cars I think will be quietly suffering in silence. Not the enthusiast but the owner who just bought it to drive and never gets underneath.
Anyway, thanks for the comments.
I promise to post a review and pictures of the completed car once up and running.
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Thursday 27th May 00:14
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Thursday 27th May 00:16
Edited by Sunnysidebb on Thursday 27th May 00:17
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