Leaving The 911 Fold - My Story
Discussion
After many years of being a 911 owner, the unthinkable has happened – let me tell you my story.
Like many of you, my love for 911’s dates back to my childhood, and it was an ambition realised when in 1995 I finally got a beautiful 993 4S. This was followed by a more track biased 993 RS Clubsport and eventually (having scratched my track itch) after a brief flirtation with an SKL55AMG I ended up with a 997.1 Targa 4S.
I kind of thought that the Targa 4S was going to be a very long term ownership proposition, as it was absolutely ideal for its main purpose of road trips round Europe and weekends away in the UK and I was immensely happy with the car.
All this was to change following the events of a few weeks ago.
A friend of mine (let’s call him Alan) has had two successive Cayman S’s and as we toured Europe together we would often swap cars for a day just to feel the differences.
Every time I drove the Cayman I was aware of the beautifully balanced handling and controlled ride quality but I was always disappointed by it’s lack of grunt – although the car could be driven very quickly, I felt that it needed too much effort revving it through the gears, and for this reason much preferred the 911.
A few weeks ago Alan came round to see me in his new 2010 Boxster S – for years I had been telling Alan that given the UK’s congested roads (and a blanket 50mph speed limit in Derbyshire) the Boxster was probably the most logical choice on the basis that with the top down you can cruise along the lanes top down and still feel like you’re enjoying it at 50mph.
Alan’s new Boxster S was one of the latest models with the 310BHP DFI engine in it and had the PDK gearbox with steering wheel paddles plus chronosport and had standard suspension (no PASM).
With a smirk on his face Alan said ‘you’ve got to try it’ – and off we went for a blast round the local B roads in the two cars (911 & Boxster).
As we headed for the countryside in auto mode the Boxster felt pleasant enough but a bit sluggish on throttle response, so remembering Alan’s instruction to try ‘sport’ mode I pressed the button and floored the throttle as the first stretch of open B Road appeared.
What followed left me gobsmacked – the car just picked up its skirts and ran, in a way that no Boxster should be able to do – snicking though the gears in a lightening quick manner and keeping in the best part of the power band until we were well into the wrong side of three figures and I eased off.
It flew. Gradually it dawned on me that the damn thing was probably as fast as my own 911 in terms of acceleration.
What also was apparent was that on our local choppy B roads with dips, bumps and camber changes the Boxster was riding over these with a beautifully controlled and secure flowing ride – I knew these roads well, and in the 911 the steering would be tugging gently to and fro and the nose bobbing a bit - but the Boxster was just so well balanced and confident that I’d swear you could go faster in it (and it felt noticeably better than Alan’s previous PASM equipped Cayman)
As we approached my favourite hairpin I asked the wife to ‘ hang on as I’m just going to lean on the tyres a bit’. At this point I felt sure that the auto mode PDK would be the Achilles heel of the car and was getting ready to say ‘told you so – not as good as a manual’
Hard on the brakes as we approached the corner, the car executes two perfect down changes (complete with throttle blips), as I see the exit from the corner appear I nail the throttle only to find that the engine is at the ideal part of the power band and the car surges out of the corner and executes a swift up change and again we are flying – really I could not have done it better myself.
My first experience of an auto gearbox which does as good a job as a manual. - It felt like whoever had programmed it had exactly the same idea as to what gear to be in at each point on the road. I was deeply impressed.
Could a brand new Boxster S be as quick as a 3 year old 911 ? – You bet.
During the next couple of days as I did some homework on it the figures reinforced the story.
Firstly power :
Targa 4S – 355BHP@6600rpm, 1535kg, Power to weight 231BHP/ton
Boxster S – 310BHP@6000rpm, 1380kg, Power to weight 225BHP/ton
Then torque :
Targa 4S – 400NM@4600rpm, 1535kg, torque to weight 260NM/ton
Boxster S – 360NM@4400rpm, 1380kg, torque to weight 260NM/ton
A big factor in the story is the fact that the Boxster is 155kg lighter, but for me the figures reinforced my perception that there was nothing in it between the two cars. I really think that with its latest version, Porsche have now taken the Boxster to a level where it now has a performance comparable with a 911.
A by product of the reduced weight and 7 speed box is the fact that the fuel consumption comparison for the two cars (on paper at least) is staggering :
Targa 4S : Extra Urban 23.9MPG
Boxster S : Extra Urban 42.8MPG (Over 250 miles extra range when nursing it !)
To put my money were my mouth is (and after comments from the wife about missing the full open top experience) I went out and traded the 911 against a new Boxster S.
Having had the car for two weeks now and been able to drive it on some great roads my opinion has only changed slightly. - I now feel that the Boxster is actually quicker than my old 911.
The slightly smaller size, perfectly balanced handling, and reduced weight mean it has a nimbleness and a delicacy which has to be experienced to be believed., and in some ways I think it is closer to the original 911 design ethos which has been corrupted over the years with the ever increasing bulk and move towards supercar type performance which has been evident in the more recent 911’s.
I wonder how many other 911 owners have come to the same conclusion and voted with their feet ?
I can feel a new campaign coming on: ‘Boxster S – The Thinking Man’s 911’
Like many of you, my love for 911’s dates back to my childhood, and it was an ambition realised when in 1995 I finally got a beautiful 993 4S. This was followed by a more track biased 993 RS Clubsport and eventually (having scratched my track itch) after a brief flirtation with an SKL55AMG I ended up with a 997.1 Targa 4S.
I kind of thought that the Targa 4S was going to be a very long term ownership proposition, as it was absolutely ideal for its main purpose of road trips round Europe and weekends away in the UK and I was immensely happy with the car.
All this was to change following the events of a few weeks ago.
A friend of mine (let’s call him Alan) has had two successive Cayman S’s and as we toured Europe together we would often swap cars for a day just to feel the differences.
Every time I drove the Cayman I was aware of the beautifully balanced handling and controlled ride quality but I was always disappointed by it’s lack of grunt – although the car could be driven very quickly, I felt that it needed too much effort revving it through the gears, and for this reason much preferred the 911.
A few weeks ago Alan came round to see me in his new 2010 Boxster S – for years I had been telling Alan that given the UK’s congested roads (and a blanket 50mph speed limit in Derbyshire) the Boxster was probably the most logical choice on the basis that with the top down you can cruise along the lanes top down and still feel like you’re enjoying it at 50mph.
Alan’s new Boxster S was one of the latest models with the 310BHP DFI engine in it and had the PDK gearbox with steering wheel paddles plus chronosport and had standard suspension (no PASM).
With a smirk on his face Alan said ‘you’ve got to try it’ – and off we went for a blast round the local B roads in the two cars (911 & Boxster).
As we headed for the countryside in auto mode the Boxster felt pleasant enough but a bit sluggish on throttle response, so remembering Alan’s instruction to try ‘sport’ mode I pressed the button and floored the throttle as the first stretch of open B Road appeared.
What followed left me gobsmacked – the car just picked up its skirts and ran, in a way that no Boxster should be able to do – snicking though the gears in a lightening quick manner and keeping in the best part of the power band until we were well into the wrong side of three figures and I eased off.
It flew. Gradually it dawned on me that the damn thing was probably as fast as my own 911 in terms of acceleration.
What also was apparent was that on our local choppy B roads with dips, bumps and camber changes the Boxster was riding over these with a beautifully controlled and secure flowing ride – I knew these roads well, and in the 911 the steering would be tugging gently to and fro and the nose bobbing a bit - but the Boxster was just so well balanced and confident that I’d swear you could go faster in it (and it felt noticeably better than Alan’s previous PASM equipped Cayman)
As we approached my favourite hairpin I asked the wife to ‘ hang on as I’m just going to lean on the tyres a bit’. At this point I felt sure that the auto mode PDK would be the Achilles heel of the car and was getting ready to say ‘told you so – not as good as a manual’
Hard on the brakes as we approached the corner, the car executes two perfect down changes (complete with throttle blips), as I see the exit from the corner appear I nail the throttle only to find that the engine is at the ideal part of the power band and the car surges out of the corner and executes a swift up change and again we are flying – really I could not have done it better myself.
My first experience of an auto gearbox which does as good a job as a manual. - It felt like whoever had programmed it had exactly the same idea as to what gear to be in at each point on the road. I was deeply impressed.
Could a brand new Boxster S be as quick as a 3 year old 911 ? – You bet.
During the next couple of days as I did some homework on it the figures reinforced the story.
Firstly power :
Targa 4S – 355BHP@6600rpm, 1535kg, Power to weight 231BHP/ton
Boxster S – 310BHP@6000rpm, 1380kg, Power to weight 225BHP/ton
Then torque :
Targa 4S – 400NM@4600rpm, 1535kg, torque to weight 260NM/ton
Boxster S – 360NM@4400rpm, 1380kg, torque to weight 260NM/ton
A big factor in the story is the fact that the Boxster is 155kg lighter, but for me the figures reinforced my perception that there was nothing in it between the two cars. I really think that with its latest version, Porsche have now taken the Boxster to a level where it now has a performance comparable with a 911.
A by product of the reduced weight and 7 speed box is the fact that the fuel consumption comparison for the two cars (on paper at least) is staggering :
Targa 4S : Extra Urban 23.9MPG
Boxster S : Extra Urban 42.8MPG (Over 250 miles extra range when nursing it !)
To put my money were my mouth is (and after comments from the wife about missing the full open top experience) I went out and traded the 911 against a new Boxster S.
Having had the car for two weeks now and been able to drive it on some great roads my opinion has only changed slightly. - I now feel that the Boxster is actually quicker than my old 911.
The slightly smaller size, perfectly balanced handling, and reduced weight mean it has a nimbleness and a delicacy which has to be experienced to be believed., and in some ways I think it is closer to the original 911 design ethos which has been corrupted over the years with the ever increasing bulk and move towards supercar type performance which has been evident in the more recent 911’s.
I wonder how many other 911 owners have come to the same conclusion and voted with their feet ?
I can feel a new campaign coming on: ‘Boxster S – The Thinking Man’s 911’
Peter Cee said:
I wonder how many other 911 owners have come to the same conclusion and voted with their feet ?
I've had a loaner 2009 Cayman S PDK for a week now and frankly I'm completely underwhelmed, and hating the autobox. I pick up my 911 tomorrow and so excited, like a long lost lover!
I owned a 987 Boxster with, I think, 240 bhp and did have the use of a 997S with 380 bhp. I really liked the 997 but having all that power was useless in London and in most of the UK. I did try 
The Boxster was quick enough when needed and to think of all that extra money just to get the 2 extra diddy seats and the engine much further back.
I'm sure the money is not the problem and a Boxster with over 300 bhp. Wow!
The Boxster was quick enough when needed and to think of all that extra money just to get the 2 extra diddy seats and the engine much further back.
I'm sure the money is not the problem and a Boxster with over 300 bhp. Wow!
"As we approached my favourite hairpin I asked the wife to ‘ hang on as I’m just going to lean on the tyres a bit’"
Blimey mate that's a bit cheesy. You're not that bloke with the gold bracelet and budgie smugglers from over at speeding, police and the law are you?
By the way, I think you'll find a turbo or GT2 will address your boxster related issues...
SM
Blimey mate that's a bit cheesy. You're not that bloke with the gold bracelet and budgie smugglers from over at speeding, police and the law are you?
By the way, I think you'll find a turbo or GT2 will address your boxster related issues...
SM
kusee pee said:
Nice story. The Boxster has always been an awesome tool IMO. However, I can't believe you moved on from a 993 RS - now that's the car to put a smile on my face!
Glad you've found the right car for you - there's nothing better than finding something that ticks all your boxes.
Glad you've found the right car for you - there's nothing better than finding something that ticks all your boxes.
Good story Pete.... glad you've found a car that ticks all the boxes for you.
The latest gen 2 cars specced with pdk, both 997 and 987 do feel like a significant improvement on the old ones in terms of pace, suspension, and technology. Indeed, the turbo could be an all new car for how much better than the gen 1 car it feels !
The latest gen 2 cars specced with pdk, both 997 and 987 do feel like a significant improvement on the old ones in terms of pace, suspension, and technology. Indeed, the turbo could be an all new car for how much better than the gen 1 car it feels !
kusee pee said:
Nice story. The Boxster has always been an awesome tool IMO. However, I can't believe you moved on from a 993 RS - now that's the car to put a smile on my face!
Glad you've found the right car for you - there's nothing better than finding something that ticks all your boxes.
The 993 met a sticky end and was followed by an Elise and then a 340R - but they were really just track cars and it was only when I gave up the trackdays and decided just to potter around on the roads that I bought the Targa - an 'old mans car' according to internet lore (mainly by those who have never driven one).Glad you've found the right car for you - there's nothing better than finding something that ticks all your boxes.
Very interesting.
I would really like to see Porsche stick everything they have in the Cayman. (I'm not a big fan of ragtops)
A 3.8 twin turbo Cayman? LSD, vector whatsit and the best suspension etc. Basically a 2010 911 Turbo S shoed into a Cayman.
I assume awd would be difficult - but mid engined maybe not needed.
The conspiracy theory is that such a car (were it possible) would so cannibalise 911 sales that Porsche wouldn't like to do it. I'm not so sure though - I would assume that the cost of such a car would double from the c£45K now, so still room for some 911s in the marketplace. And only some people buy cars on the performance figures. Quite a lot of people will buy a 911 because it is a 911.
Of course you can get such a car, but from Ruf or similar.
The S badge Cayman and Boxster have a lot to commend them over the more basic 911s. But if you want real grunt I guess GTx and Turbo are still the way to go. I'll certainly be having a long hard look at the Cayman in a couple of years when I next change.
I would really like to see Porsche stick everything they have in the Cayman. (I'm not a big fan of ragtops)
A 3.8 twin turbo Cayman? LSD, vector whatsit and the best suspension etc. Basically a 2010 911 Turbo S shoed into a Cayman.
I assume awd would be difficult - but mid engined maybe not needed.
The conspiracy theory is that such a car (were it possible) would so cannibalise 911 sales that Porsche wouldn't like to do it. I'm not so sure though - I would assume that the cost of such a car would double from the c£45K now, so still room for some 911s in the marketplace. And only some people buy cars on the performance figures. Quite a lot of people will buy a 911 because it is a 911.
Of course you can get such a car, but from Ruf or similar.
The S badge Cayman and Boxster have a lot to commend them over the more basic 911s. But if you want real grunt I guess GTx and Turbo are still the way to go. I'll certainly be having a long hard look at the Cayman in a couple of years when I next change.
A good read! but as said a 911 Turbo would annihilate the Boxter on every level, for the same £££'s I'm guessing a decent 996TT Cab would be a perfect choice and having already done its depreciaion would cost far less over the course of ownership.
Not sure how much a 'new' spec'd up Boxter is but this looks like a contender!
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1864629.htm
Not sure how much a 'new' spec'd up Boxter is but this looks like a contender!
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1864629.htm
Edited by MrSimba on Friday 30th July 18:54
Peter Cee said:
Hard on the brakes as we approached the corner, the car executes two perfect down changes (complete with throttle blips), as I see the exit from the corner appear I nail the throttle only to find that the engine is at the ideal part of the power band and the car surges out of the corner and executes a swift up change and again we are flying – really I could not have done it better myself.
That's where you lost me I'm afraid.... a car should challenge the driver, not do it all for you.Perhaps returning to an older 911 would tick all of your boxes?
MrSimba said:
A good read! but as said a 911 Turbo would annihilate the Boxter on every level.
Can't agree. The 997 Turbo might annihilate a Boxster in performance terms and, granted, it has huge capabilities, but the Boxster has other qualities - there's a purity that the Turbo can't touch. Which is the best Porsche is very personal and subjective, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it's the fastest, most powerful, most expensive..... Geneve said:
MrSimba said:
A good read! but as said a 911 Turbo would annihilate the Boxter on every level.
Can't agree. The 997 Turbo might annihilate a Boxster in performance terms and, granted, it has huge capabilities, but the Boxster has other qualities - there's a purity that the Turbo can't touch. Which is the best Porsche is very personal and subjective, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it's the fastest, most powerful, most expensive..... Orangecurry said:
Peter Cee said:
Hard on the brakes as we approached the corner, the car executes two perfect down changes (complete with throttle blips), as I see the exit from the corner appear I nail the throttle only to find that the engine is at the ideal part of the power band and the car surges out of the corner and executes a swift up change and again we are flying – really I could not have done it better myself.
That's where you lost me I'm afraid.... a car should challenge the driver, not do it all for you.Perhaps returning to an older 911 would tick all of your boxes?
Try a Mitsi evo, it's even more impressive out of corners and will blow your t1ts off if you like to marvel from afar.
An interesting story but I have to say i'm stunned that you've come from elises and a 993rs and are now waxing lyrical about auto blips on an auto. The whole point of a 911 is that the engine IS in the rear so if you've turned your back on it then maybe it was never your cuppa in the first place ?
I've owned my share of perfect handling cars. I have to say they bore me somewhat and I've no inclination whatsoever to return to mid engined or front engined any time soon. Weight management and the driver and car triumphing together is where its at for me.
Still, glad you've found what you like. There is nothing like finding your sweet spot and it all coming togthere. Keep enjoying those roads.
Edited by jackal on Friday 30th July 19:49
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