Discussion
Hi guys.
I'm considering buying a 944s2 which has a few small areas of rust in the usual areas - corner of front wheel arch, bottom of sill and top of rear wheel arch. The current owner (who works for a garage that does its own bodywork) says it'll all get "done" before it's offered for sale.
Being no expert on bodywork, I'm just concerned that if it's started going in those areas, won't the rust just reappear in 6 months' time unless body panels are replaced?
Any thoughts?
I'm considering buying a 944s2 which has a few small areas of rust in the usual areas - corner of front wheel arch, bottom of sill and top of rear wheel arch. The current owner (who works for a garage that does its own bodywork) says it'll all get "done" before it's offered for sale.
Being no expert on bodywork, I'm just concerned that if it's started going in those areas, won't the rust just reappear in 6 months' time unless body panels are replaced?
Any thoughts?
It can be repaired without new panels. But I'll guarantee that it won't be a "tiny" bit of rust.
If you have a strong stomach then have a look here: http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/porsche_repair_pics
If you have a strong stomach then have a look here: http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/porsche_repair_pics
I would tend to agree however my old body shell had the same visible symptoms. Went through the dip at Surface Processing and came out with only 2 fist sized holes at the bottom of the rear quarters after the sill. Rest of the shell fine.
Definitely have a closer look and don't assume the floor will be OK. I have seen an S2 that had a rotten drivers side footwell, its not common enough to be on most ppl's hit list but that is not to say it can't happen. The edges of the rear arches as well behind the wheels can rust but its probably an easier fix.
Definitely have a closer look and don't assume the floor will be OK. I have seen an S2 that had a rotten drivers side footwell, its not common enough to be on most ppl's hit list but that is not to say it can't happen. The edges of the rear arches as well behind the wheels can rust but its probably an easier fix.
My 944 turbo was getting a little ragged around the lip on the inside edges of the front wheel arches plus had a bit of bubbling in the bottom corners behind the arches near the rubber sill seal. I replaced both wings with new ones as the coachwork shop (a Porsche approved repairer) said the rust would only come back. By the time you've got rust in a galvanised panel - it's knackered! The galvanising will no longer be acting as a seal & your rust prevention will be a fraction of what it once was.
Have you looked inside the sills? It could be anything from water lifting the stone-chip underseal, to rotten inner sills affecting the seat belt and suspension mounting areas.
Pop the black vent in the door pillar and you can look inside, and get your hand in with a camera phone to see right along the sills. You should get your hands mucky from all the waxoyl in there if the owner had looked after it.
There will be some rust in most cases, and a little surface corrosion is easily treatable.Daylight means there is a big problem.
Pop this out:
This isn't too bad:
Pop the black vent in the door pillar and you can look inside, and get your hand in with a camera phone to see right along the sills. You should get your hands mucky from all the waxoyl in there if the owner had looked after it.
There will be some rust in most cases, and a little surface corrosion is easily treatable.Daylight means there is a big problem.
Pop this out:
This isn't too bad:
I'd say to the seller, I'll get it done myself, and get him to drop the price. Chances are he won't take half as much care doing it, and it'll be a 'cover up'.
As with most cars they rust from the inside. Look at classic car restorers for advice/prices to get it done, not Porsche bodyshops.
And in the mean time inject some Dinitrol into all cavities, you can't expect cars of this age to survive without a little help.
These cars should have this treatment whether they are showing signs of rust or not. However 'immaculate' the example is, they will all have some rust inside the rear sill cavity when the air vent is removed. (968s too).
As with most cars they rust from the inside. Look at classic car restorers for advice/prices to get it done, not Porsche bodyshops.
And in the mean time inject some Dinitrol into all cavities, you can't expect cars of this age to survive without a little help.
These cars should have this treatment whether they are showing signs of rust or not. However 'immaculate' the example is, they will all have some rust inside the rear sill cavity when the air vent is removed. (968s too).
Thanks for the advice so far, guys.
The garage selling it is actually a classic car restoration business. I'm not wholly convinced of the quality of their work, though - especially if they are just patching up to sell on.
If I'm not convinced, I'll probably pull out. It's a tricky one though. When I asked the bloke about the sills, for example, and as to whether they'd actually replace them, he replied that he'd do whatever the bodyshop tells him.
If I told them I'd get the bodywork done myself instead, what's the sort of thing I'd be looking at on a rear wheel arch, front arch and sill? (Roughly.)
The garage selling it is actually a classic car restoration business. I'm not wholly convinced of the quality of their work, though - especially if they are just patching up to sell on.
If I'm not convinced, I'll probably pull out. It's a tricky one though. When I asked the bloke about the sills, for example, and as to whether they'd actually replace them, he replied that he'd do whatever the bodyshop tells him.
If I told them I'd get the bodywork done myself instead, what's the sort of thing I'd be looking at on a rear wheel arch, front arch and sill? (Roughly.)
nitsypee said:
If I told them I'd get the bodywork done myself instead, what's the sort of thing I'd be looking at on a rear wheel arch, front arch and sill? (Roughly.)
Very hard to say. Depends on where you are, labour is a big chunk, how bad it actually is and what standard you require, how much paint is needed, and how much more you have done at the same time. Will you do the front for stone chips, for example.Can be £1000 per side, but that's pretty reasonable when you consider the quality of the cars. They might only cost a few £k to buy but they are still a premium car and to me it's not worth patching them up like an old Fiesta.
It might be less, just a bit of tidying up rather than replacing loads of metal.
nitsypee said:
Maybe I should ask if the garage is prepared to put some sort of guarantee on their bodywork?
I'd go back to basics. Is the car good, with recent history all showing proper care? Is there evidence of the most important things like recent belt change, clutch not being on it's way out, fuel and brake lines replaced, calipers refurbed etc. And, is the price right for the work that's been done recently?Then, factor in the bodywork. My S2 was described as "bloody amazing" 18 months ago. It has had one front wing done, and the paintwork badly blended. I need very minor sill repair, but it's probably as easy to fit a new outer as originals are about £150 and fit properly, so the labour is much reduced from pattern parts or patching. The other front wing and both rears need a little repair (not new panels). The badge panel is badly scuffed, and the whole front needs spraying to fix the previous bad blending. Add in bits like new stone guards, treating it all with corrosion inhibitor afterwards, possibly all new black trim along the bottom as it's a bit warped over 20 years. You're up to a good couple of thousand easily.
But, it's then a car in as good condition as when it was made and will probably go on until the world runs out of oil. I could get the bits on mine done for a few hundred and it'd be good for a few years, even MOT-failure levels of rust have been repaired for hundreds if it's not a keeper. All 944s will have some corrosion, it's a case of how much, and what level you want to repair to. If it's not bad, as in the pic above, treat it a couple of times a year and it'll be fine for a good while yet.
Show me a car from the same era, or at that price, that doesn't corrode much worse or have other expensive problems! When mine was featured in a Classic mag against an Excel and a GTV6, both were garage queens, cost way more to run and the Lotus tried to break down. Reviewer prefered the S2 to drive as well.
pauljmcnulty said:
Mine was featured in a Classic mag against an Excel and a GTV6, both were garage queens, cost way more to run and the Lotus tried to break down. Reviewer prefered the S2 to drive as well.
I don't suppose there's a copy of that online anywhere? Very interested to hear the Excel comparison.
ETA: How do you pop those sill vents out and is it the same on the 968? Had a bit of a go at getting one out recently, but didn't want to risk damaging a car I wasn't sure I was going to buy!
Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 20th October 12:07
Chris71 said:
pauljmcnulty said:
Mine was featured in a Classic mag against an Excel and a GTV6, both were garage queens, cost way more to run and the Lotus tried to break down. Reviewer prefered the S2 to drive as well.
I don't suppose there's a copy of that online anywhere? Very interested to hear the Excel comparison.
ETA: How do you pop those sill vents out and is it the same on the 968? Had a bit of a go at getting one out recently, but didn't want to risk damaging a car I wasn't sure I was going to buy!
Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 20th October 12:07
Black vent has a little tab near the top that releases it. It does tend to be broken already, and often they are held in with a bit of tape or even glue. I'd ask the owner to remove it, but it's one of the key checks to make so don't take no for an answer. I just took pics of my sills and put them on the advert, seemed to be a very positive thing from the comments I got - people appreciate honesty!
pauljmcnulty said:
People appreciate honesty!
:yep:Given classic/performance cars tend to be sold to quite an informed audience it amazes how many times people hold back on information in the advert. I've sold my last two cars to the first viewer by going into exhaustive detail about their condition (good and bad) in the ad. One was a cat D and one a slightly tatty ex-racecar, but both got lots of interest from the right type of buyer and no time wasters thanks to the 'warts and all' approach.
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