944 sill replacment cost ?

[pcn1]

Every car I seem to enquire about seems to be suffering from a little rust showing in the sills. Guess I was lucky with my 1992 model when I sold it last year as it had none showing even when I looked inside through the vent hole.

Anyone know the cost of a "proper" repair on a 944 if you go down that route of new sills both sides and good paint job ?

Thanks

[Lowtimer]

Including VAT, materials, labour etc, with a good place doing a proper job, and rustproofing it all properly: something in the region of £1500 a side, I believe.

A lot depends on what you find once you get the outers off: what are the seat belt mountings like, and so on. And you are likely to find the rear arches and the bottom of the front wings need doing at the same time.

Mine is having all of that done starting in the first week of May down at Daytona Coachworks.

What you want to avoid, if (like me) you intend to keep the car forever, is a cheap job that leaves manky bits inside. It solves nothing really - just puts off the date of the necessary proer job by a few years. Turns out my car had a poorly done sill replacement on one side some years ago under a previous owner, which I am getting redone properly.

But if it just has very localised rot, a skilled metal work guy may well be able to cut out all that needs cutting out, and let in new metal, at significantly lower cost, and that might well be perfectly satisfactory if done by someone who really knows what he's doing. It is very hard to generalise.

Edited by Lowtimer on Friday 4th March 17:21

Edited by Lowtimer on Friday 4th March 17:23

[pauljmcnulty]

It depends a lot on both how bad it is, and how much you want a top restoration or a patch up that might not last long. To be honest, by the time it's been stripped back, properly repaired along with any other bits like the bottom of the front wigs etc. and then a proper paint job and treat the inside of the sills against future rot £1K-plus per side isn't unusual.

Still better than any other car of the period though, look at other cars of that age and they rust far more seriously.

[ewan221]

If I rember right there was a large thread giving blow by blow account of sill replacement on the TIPEC forum and pretty sure the author posts regular on here. Loads of 944 info and owner on both TIPEC and PCGB forums be an idea to ask on there.

[pauljmcnulty]

ewan221 said:

If I rember right there was a large thread giving blow by blow account of sill replacement on the TIPEC forum and pretty sure the author posts regular on here. Loads of 944 info and owner on both TIPEC and PCGB forums be an idea to ask on there.

There are plenty of documented threads over the years. The trouble is, there is no standard level of rot, and no standard level of the repair people want.

The best thing is to buy a car that someone else has restored properly, or one with the most minimal rust and protect it well. The problem is that the cars are only worth a few £K in very best condition, so most people bodge repairs, and even then only when it gets to MOT failure point. I would always say that a 944 can be bought for a few £k, but it's still a £10K car, and a bargain at that price, so be prepared to put far more than the purchase price in after you've bought it.

[pcn1]

Would it be true to say theres no way of telling just how bad it is? Even with a look through the vent hole inside the door shut its hard to tell.
Most examples for sale only show small evidence of rot coming through, and the seller will say "thats not going to cost to much to sort out".
Then you say "well it could cost me £3K so knock that off the asking price and youve got a deal" !!

[pauljmcnulty]

pcn1 said:

Would it be true to say theres no way of telling just how bad it is? Even with a look through the vent hole inside the door shut its hard to tell.
Most examples for sale only show small evidence of rot coming through, and the seller will say "thats not going to cost to much to sort out".
Then you say "well it could cost me £3K so knock that off the asking price and youve got a deal" !!

You need to look inside the sills, of course, but also get the car on a ramp. I saw two at RPM last time I was there; one was cosmetically the rustiest I've ever seen, but flew through the MOT. The other, a nice looking turbo just bought for an average price, was going for scrap immediately as it was lethal. The rust around the rear suspension and seat belt mounting points is, obviously, critical.

Regarding price, you're getting one of the best cars ever made for a few £k. The seller knows you're getting it at a vastly reduced price, half what it was maybe three years ago, and he knows you could bodge minor rust for a few hundred. Unless it's a complete wreck, you have to weigh up where you'll be spending the money, but you will have to spend significant cash on any 20 year old Porsche unless you buy one that's already been sorted.

[tr7v8]

ewan221 said:

If I remember right there was a large thread giving blow by blow account of sill replacement on the TIPEC forum and pretty sure the author posts regular on here. Loads of 944 info and owner on both TIPEC and PCGB forums be an idea to ask on there.

Probably me! Pics of mine are here :-http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/porsche_repair_pics
TBH I think most cars will have some level of rust as the youngest is 19-20 years old or so. Mine was grim because although it failed on rear suspension mounts the actual sills were horrific including the inners & seat belt mounts. Total bill was £1400 but done at a low labour rate of £30 PH. A few others over on TIPEC have had sills done recently so worth a look.

[rallycross]

Even the newest ones are nearly twenty years old so they have some rusty bits - usually first to be found around where the sill blends into the rear arch.


The stuff mentioned earlier about a huge restoration cutting off both sills and repairing the innner sills and replacing the outers with new metal is the worst case scenario it does not have to be that involved - so dont be put off before then looking a bit more carefully.

I've just had the sills repaired (not replaced) on an 88 944 and having read all the usual scare mongering stories on the net and looked at the photos of the big sill replacement job (linked to above) I was ready for a huge bill, my local guys reckoned they could do it for £500 per side plus paint costs but then having looked at my car and looked at those sill repair photos on the web they said they would start the job and see how much work it really needed ie no point cutting it all off if it can be repaired.

In the end it was only £300 welding repairs and the mot man agreed it was a nice tidy repair and should be fine for another few years.



So, find a decent garage and dont panic when people talk about rusty sills.


So its £1200+ to do it properly but you may find its not as bad as some people suggest in which case a repair will be possible.

[Fat Albert]

Mine had a couple of spots on the sills and they were repaired (new metal) and resprayed for £600 all in
From this:

to this:

and this:

to this:

[jabriel]

Where from Fat Albert?

[Fat Albert]

TWG in Peterborough, they use a local bodyshop who knows the 944 well and is rather fastidious about the finish (took an extra few days to do because they wanted it 'right')

http://www.twgsport.co.uk/

[pcn1]

Hoping to go see a 944 turbo tommorow that the seller says has a little rust showing. Ive taken on board what Im reading here and if I like what I see will have it checked over by my local indie before parting with the cash !

Like I said in my first post, my 1992 S2 had no sill problems, but that was a couple of years ago now. We just have to accept some body work required as part of the ownership of these cars now.

Thanks all

[Peter Empson]

You never know quite what lurks beneath a few rust bubbles!

[pcn1]

Ive got an emergency fund for the unexpected, but would prefer to get a good'um first and spend it on fun bits like new suspension and track day tyres !

[pauljmcnulty]

rallycross said:

Even the newest ones are nearly twenty years old so they have some rusty bits - usually first to be found around where the sill blends into the rear arch.

The stuff mentioned earlier about a huge restoration cutting off both sills and repairing the innner sills and replacing the outers with new metal is the worst case scenario it does not have to be that involved - so dont be put off before then looking a bit more carefully.

I've just had the sills repaired (not replaced) on an 88 944 and having read all the usual scare mongering stories on the net and looked at the photos of the big sill replacement job (linked to above) I was ready for a huge bill, my local guys reckoned they could do it for £500 per side plus paint costs but then having looked at my car and looked at those sill repair photos on the web they said they would start the job and see how much work it really needed ie no point cutting it all off if it can be repaired.

In the end it was only £300 welding repairs and the mot man agreed it was a nice tidy repair and should be fine for another few years.

So, find a decent garage and dont panic when people talk about rusty sills.

So its £1200+ to do it properly but you may find its not as bad as some people suggest in which case a repair will be possible.

I agree totally that the figures are worst-case, but a significant number of cars are pretty ropey. As I said earlier, it's not always visible or could have been botched previously, and often attention is needed to front and rear wings and a few other bits of paint, so the bill can easily add up. There's not a huge difference in fabricating a repair patch or fitting an original outer sill once labour, painting and VAT are added in, for instance.

I don't apologise for being cautious when advising people. Plenty of times I've seen cars with buyers and told them to allow £2K worst-case for bodywork repairs, but then they complain that they haven't got the money left over, or don't think it's worth it on a car that cost £2K or £3k. Next MOT they are scrapping the car as it's costing too much. With nearly a thousand 944s in the Club, and the same again on the forum, you do get a feel for the average costs. Bear in mind that most cars getting as bad as Peter's above would be scrapped.

The poor guy who spent over £4K on a turbo recently, only to have it checked post-sale, would have benefitted from the advice here. He walked out with scrap value only without even using the car, after it was deemed way beyond repair despite looking pretty ok from the outside. It's rare to find a 944 today that doesn't need the work doing to some degree, or hasn't been restored or bodged already. Fair enough if you factor this in to your budget, but allow £1K per side on a car that looks good and you'll be happy if it costs less.

[GC8]

Fat Albert said:

Mine had a couple of spots on the sills and they were repaired (new metal) and resprayed for £600 all in
From this:

to this:

and this:

to this:

Unfortunately the off side was filled and painted over and the near side isnt great either after two years.