Rebuilt speed6 vs later factory unit
Discussion
After reading in sprint this week about a power rebuild having covered 140,000 miles got me thinking an earlier car with a good rebuild is a safer bet than a later factory car.
Does anyone know precisely when the factory spec engines got sorted and what/if power and the others may do differently?
Does anyone know precisely when the factory spec engines got sorted and what/if power and the others may do differently?
My str8 six rebuild involved a number of items that would not have been done on a factory rebuild.
I chose to have a new block for one, with better oilways, stronger big end caps, better cooling (it had new cams / followers in an earlier rebuild, but unfortunately the rest wasnt done properly).
Also had little end bearings done (cheap rubbish in factory standard), half time bearing mod, improved valves and guides, plus lots of little things that Jason tends to do (im sure Power too) like improved head bolts, MLS head gasket etc etc.
I think you are right in the assumption that an earlier car with a rebuild from a reputable aftermarket place (and in my opinion only go for a Str8 Six or TVR power rebuild) is better than a factory build.
It is generally accepted that the 2003 engines onwards were better out of the factory.
I chose to have a new block for one, with better oilways, stronger big end caps, better cooling (it had new cams / followers in an earlier rebuild, but unfortunately the rest wasnt done properly).
Also had little end bearings done (cheap rubbish in factory standard), half time bearing mod, improved valves and guides, plus lots of little things that Jason tends to do (im sure Power too) like improved head bolts, MLS head gasket etc etc.
I think you are right in the assumption that an earlier car with a rebuild from a reputable aftermarket place (and in my opinion only go for a Str8 Six or TVR power rebuild) is better than a factory build.
It is generally accepted that the 2003 engines onwards were better out of the factory.
IMHO The later the rebuild the better, there is still being learnt on this engines to extend their life.
The initial engines suffered with poor spec followers/cams, there was a step change in 2003, however that is not the whole story.
Rods, Blocks, heads, oil ways, followers, cams, springs, cranks, half time bearings, chains, head gaskets, head studs, valves, guides, seats can all be improved from the 2001 spec. I talked to an owner of one of the original Tuscans and he had 3 rebuilds in a year. Not all parts were changed on rebuilds, just what was needed. 2005 engines are meant to be better as well, I would say 2007 was the real tipping point where the engines became reliable. Having said that there are original pre-2003 engines with bags of mileage on still going.
The initial engines suffered with poor spec followers/cams, there was a step change in 2003, however that is not the whole story.
Rods, Blocks, heads, oil ways, followers, cams, springs, cranks, half time bearings, chains, head gaskets, head studs, valves, guides, seats can all be improved from the 2001 spec. I talked to an owner of one of the original Tuscans and he had 3 rebuilds in a year. Not all parts were changed on rebuilds, just what was needed. 2005 engines are meant to be better as well, I would say 2007 was the real tipping point where the engines became reliable. Having said that there are original pre-2003 engines with bags of mileage on still going.
Does anyone know, as a fact, whether the block or head castings were ever changed ? I've been told it's rubbish and just old wives tales. It would be some expense to have a modified design, new casting patterns, and new castings etc. produced for a company like TVR that was haemorraging money and constantly trying to save costs to stay alive...
xTVR said:
How much did your rebuild cost?
I'm thinking of doing similar work sometime in the near future and would appreciate some insights.
I have a 2001 S on its original engine - its running well but its sure to need work sometime.
It was partially warranty from the dealer, but i contributed. The dealer subsequently went bust and i was allowed to obtain the paperwork for what they paid. I'm thinking of doing similar work sometime in the near future and would appreciate some insights.
I have a 2001 S on its original engine - its running well but its sure to need work sometime.
In total between the part the dealer paid, removal and reinstallation, and the part i paid you are looking at £8500, that was two years ago.
nrick said:
IMHO The later the rebuild the better, there is still being learnt on this engines to extend their life.
The initial engines suffered with poor spec followers/cams, there was a step change in 2003, however that is not the whole story.
Rods, Blocks, heads, oil ways, followers, cams, springs, cranks, half time bearings, chains, head gaskets, head studs, valves, guides, seats can all be improved from the 2001 spec. I talked to an owner of one of the original Tuscans and he had 3 rebuilds in a year. Not all parts were changed on rebuilds, just what was needed. 2005 engines are meant to be better as well, I would say 2007 was the real tipping point where the engines became reliable. Having said that there are original pre-2003 engines with bags of mileage on still going.
what he said^^^The initial engines suffered with poor spec followers/cams, there was a step change in 2003, however that is not the whole story.
Rods, Blocks, heads, oil ways, followers, cams, springs, cranks, half time bearings, chains, head gaskets, head studs, valves, guides, seats can all be improved from the 2001 spec. I talked to an owner of one of the original Tuscans and he had 3 rebuilds in a year. Not all parts were changed on rebuilds, just what was needed. 2005 engines are meant to be better as well, I would say 2007 was the real tipping point where the engines became reliable. Having said that there are original pre-2003 engines with bags of mileage on still going.
RedSpike66 said:
Does anyone know, as a fact, whether the block or head castings were ever changed ? I've been told it's rubbish and just old wives tales. It would be some expense to have a modified design, new casting patterns, and new castings etc. produced for a company like TVR that was haemorraging money and constantly trying to save costs to stay alive...
Not sure about the factory blocks, except for maybe the later Sags (2006 onwards). But there is definitely a new block available now, i compared the two side by side, old and new, and well, i bought a new one!! it cost £1700k from Str8 six two years ago. A recent TVRPower rebuild can come with a 100k mile 5 year warranty. However good a non rebuilt late engine is, it won't come with a warranty like that. For me, peace of mind was a recently rebuilt engine.
Also beware that some engines are described as rebuilt and are not. I looked at one described like this and when I phoned the reputable engine builder that did the work, he said he was not asked to rebuild it, merely to replace 2 followers and a cam shaft. His view was that the other parts were still a risk and he wouldnt have been prepared to warrant the engine. The engine in question was a 2003 engine.
Also beware that some engines are described as rebuilt and are not. I looked at one described like this and when I phoned the reputable engine builder that did the work, he said he was not asked to rebuild it, merely to replace 2 followers and a cam shaft. His view was that the other parts were still a risk and he wouldnt have been prepared to warrant the engine. The engine in question was a 2003 engine.
blueg33 said:
Also beware that some engines are described as rebuilt and are not. I looked at one described like this and when I phoned the reputable engine builder that did the work, he said he was not asked to rebuild it, merely to replace 2 followers and a cam shaft. His view was that the other parts were still a risk and he wouldnt have been prepared to warrant the engine. The engine in question was a 2003 engine.
Same happened to me - only i was told it had 'all been taken care of'...only to find that several things were noot done or done badly... hence a 3rd rebuild!Pacman1972 said:
Amazing how all the dealers tell me it nothing to worry about!Do not believe the people selling the car, phone the people that did the re-build, the people that serviced the car last etc.
But you could just as easily have engine issues if you buy a Porsche 996, 997, Cayman, Boxster etc but those rebuilds dont come with 5 years peace of mind
nrick said:
The other option is to buy one without a rebuild knowing you will rebuild it, and discount accordingly.
Tried that approach - Not found anyone willing to drop £7.5K off the price yet - If you know anyone, let me know 
In fact, if anyone has a Tuscan that needs an engine rebuild, and would rather sell cheaply as opposed to stumping up for a rebuild to sell at full price - I'm interested - Just thought I'd throw that out there
Pacman1972 said:
Robertjp said:
It is generally accepted that the 2003 engines onwards were better out of the factory.
I hear that a lot, but I guess the question is why:What changed?
What (if anything) still fell short?
How can you tell?
Lots out there that have had no 'apparent' issues, but TBH the only things you can evaluate at the service are finger follower and cam condition, maybe oil cleanliness.
You wont see worn valve seats, valve guides, piston rings / bores, big end bearings, little end bearings, con rods, pistons etc etc etc....there are quite a few components with 'less than ideal' lives after you fix the main problem - the followers and cams. My car was not particularly healthy bottom end @31k miles, and yet there really werent many symptoms...
You wont see worn valve seats, valve guides, piston rings / bores, big end bearings, little end bearings, con rods, pistons etc etc etc....there are quite a few components with 'less than ideal' lives after you fix the main problem - the followers and cams. My car was not particularly healthy bottom end @31k miles, and yet there really werent many symptoms...
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