Syvecs DIY Installation
Discussion
For the more adventurous types out there I thought I would share my experience of installing the Syvecs S6 ECU on my Tuscan and the parts needed. This is just a brief overview if you are interested I do have detailed spreadsheets of all the terminations required.
I have to be honest it took about 1 week as firstly there is very little documentation and basically had to remove the entire engine loom (both parts of it) and trace cables with a multimeter. Also the original loom had suffered from corrosion in the part just below the drivers side windscreen in the engine bay so this was just throwing confusion into the mix. I also went down the flying loom route which just created twice as much work and termination errors. The main reason was so I could refit the mbe if required but as you have to modify the loom as explained below the MBE would not work even if you put it back in. Plus the extra cable makes it a b
d to fit back in above the drivers foot well. I also had a problem with the map where it was not providing a pulse to the coil when cranking - I spent 4 days trying to work this out and in the end Ryan from syvecs had a look and sent me a new map and it worked straight away (top bloke). Other issues were the throttle position sensor was not properly calibrated and this took a while to work out as well - the engine would stall as you pushed the throttle because the butterflies were opening but the TPS was not registering the movement so the mixture would go very lean and stall the engine.
I have it installed and the car running but there are still some areas that require attention - Traction control, oil pressure sensor and calibration switches.
Firstly the loom.
The Syvecs S6 ECU plug and terminals are provided when you purchase the ECU. Do not waste time trying to make a flying loom just cut the MBE connector off and terminate directly into the Syvecs one. The only modification required to the existing loom is to separate the fuel injector driver cables three are joined to one (for each 3 cylinders so there are 6 injector driver cables joined to two cables as they enter the MBE plug) as the MBE has only 2 injector driver circuits.
For the additional sensors just buy some ETFE cable and run new cables - there is rubber grommet in the bulk head which they can be passed through.
Sensors.
You will need to buy a wideband lamda sensor NTK, knock sensor and a cam position sensor. For the cam position sensor you want the three wire one as this can be connected to a "unipolar input" on the ECU - The bipolar inputs are needed for wheel speed sensors.
Mounting the cam position sensor is not an easy task and will require the use of a lathe to fabricate a "mounting cylinder" that is bolted to the front cam cover. You will also need to buy a 25mm M8 fine thread bolt to replace one of the existing bolts on the cam sprocket to make a "tooth". A small bush is required so the bolt can clamp onto the sprocket. Drilling a hole in the cam cover is tricky, as you have to align it with the bolts on the sprocket - I had a spare cylinder head so could align the hole accurately as it would be impossible to do with the engine in situation.
Ignition Coil
You can not drive the standard Bosch coil with the Syvecs so buy the VW VR6 coil which has built in amplifiers (it looks the same but sits on an alloy box that contains the amplifier - they go for around £60 new on ebay!) and also will mount without any modifications in the existing location. You will need 80mm m5 bolts as it is significantly deeper than the old one. I could not find the 5 pin plug to fit onto the coil (the timer range of connectors are too small) I just soldered the cables onto the coil and then terminated them into a 5 pin male plug. I then cut the old connector off the loom and terminated the cables into a 5 pin female plug. The extra pins is for a ground cable so can be run to the existing ground point on the back of the bell housing.
With the car now running I have to say the improvement is massive - at idle it is so smooth and much quieter. It pulls much harder from idle, the car no longer shunts at low rpms so at low revs you can drive smoothly. I have not opened her up yet as I am waiting to get the final mapping done first. I will update with the results.
I have to be honest it took about 1 week as firstly there is very little documentation and basically had to remove the entire engine loom (both parts of it) and trace cables with a multimeter. Also the original loom had suffered from corrosion in the part just below the drivers side windscreen in the engine bay so this was just throwing confusion into the mix. I also went down the flying loom route which just created twice as much work and termination errors. The main reason was so I could refit the mbe if required but as you have to modify the loom as explained below the MBE would not work even if you put it back in. Plus the extra cable makes it a b
d to fit back in above the drivers foot well. I also had a problem with the map where it was not providing a pulse to the coil when cranking - I spent 4 days trying to work this out and in the end Ryan from syvecs had a look and sent me a new map and it worked straight away (top bloke). Other issues were the throttle position sensor was not properly calibrated and this took a while to work out as well - the engine would stall as you pushed the throttle because the butterflies were opening but the TPS was not registering the movement so the mixture would go very lean and stall the engine.I have it installed and the car running but there are still some areas that require attention - Traction control, oil pressure sensor and calibration switches.
Firstly the loom.
The Syvecs S6 ECU plug and terminals are provided when you purchase the ECU. Do not waste time trying to make a flying loom just cut the MBE connector off and terminate directly into the Syvecs one. The only modification required to the existing loom is to separate the fuel injector driver cables three are joined to one (for each 3 cylinders so there are 6 injector driver cables joined to two cables as they enter the MBE plug) as the MBE has only 2 injector driver circuits.
For the additional sensors just buy some ETFE cable and run new cables - there is rubber grommet in the bulk head which they can be passed through.
Sensors.
You will need to buy a wideband lamda sensor NTK, knock sensor and a cam position sensor. For the cam position sensor you want the three wire one as this can be connected to a "unipolar input" on the ECU - The bipolar inputs are needed for wheel speed sensors.
Mounting the cam position sensor is not an easy task and will require the use of a lathe to fabricate a "mounting cylinder" that is bolted to the front cam cover. You will also need to buy a 25mm M8 fine thread bolt to replace one of the existing bolts on the cam sprocket to make a "tooth". A small bush is required so the bolt can clamp onto the sprocket. Drilling a hole in the cam cover is tricky, as you have to align it with the bolts on the sprocket - I had a spare cylinder head so could align the hole accurately as it would be impossible to do with the engine in situation.
Ignition Coil
You can not drive the standard Bosch coil with the Syvecs so buy the VW VR6 coil which has built in amplifiers (it looks the same but sits on an alloy box that contains the amplifier - they go for around £60 new on ebay!) and also will mount without any modifications in the existing location. You will need 80mm m5 bolts as it is significantly deeper than the old one. I could not find the 5 pin plug to fit onto the coil (the timer range of connectors are too small) I just soldered the cables onto the coil and then terminated them into a 5 pin male plug. I then cut the old connector off the loom and terminated the cables into a 5 pin female plug. The extra pins is for a ground cable so can be run to the existing ground point on the back of the bell housing.
With the car now running I have to say the improvement is massive - at idle it is so smooth and much quieter. It pulls much harder from idle, the car no longer shunts at low rpms so at low revs you can drive smoothly. I have not opened her up yet as I am waiting to get the final mapping done first. I will update with the results.
I bought the Syvecs s6 from hofman racing henley - I did try Racing green first but they were unable to sell me a unit and asked me to ring back in a couple of weeks! Hofman's delivered the next day.
I will post photos later this week when I have the bonnet off for the rolling road setup.
Once the car is in final configuration I will put some documentation together for those that are interested (as some of the terminations may change once all the features are working).
Cost wise the entire installation should only be the price of the S6 £1299 +VAT and then an additional £300 for all the sensors, cable and connectors required. The real cost is the labor. The other great thing is you do not have to do everything in one go. You do not have to fit cam shaft position sensor straight away - as the ECU will just run in batch injection mode (360 sync) and even that is a massive improvement over the MBE. (It will run fine without the knock sensor as well - so if you are really watching the cash you only need the wideband lamda and the VR6 Coil http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291072946406?ssPageName=...
Realistically you could do the bare bones installation in one day with suitable documentation and you would only need to spend an additional £140 on top of the cost of the ECU (I would also recommend a rolling road setup but that is your choice). You do not need to be an electronic wizz kid by and stretch of the imagination - The hardest part is just making sure you insert the cables into the correct pin numbers on the ecu plug and these are numbered on the back of the plug. Only thing is you start inserting the cables at the pins closest to the cable entry point on the plug and then move down the connector.
If you are the kind of person who likes to work on your vehicle then I highly recommend the Syvces - it uses a network cable to connect to your laptop and you can change everything and I mean everything on the ECU. The mbe was so limited as to what you could actually adjust as a laymen - Reset adaptive maps and throttle position was as exciting as it got with the MBE.
More updates to follow
I will post photos later this week when I have the bonnet off for the rolling road setup.
Once the car is in final configuration I will put some documentation together for those that are interested (as some of the terminations may change once all the features are working).
Cost wise the entire installation should only be the price of the S6 £1299 +VAT and then an additional £300 for all the sensors, cable and connectors required. The real cost is the labor. The other great thing is you do not have to do everything in one go. You do not have to fit cam shaft position sensor straight away - as the ECU will just run in batch injection mode (360 sync) and even that is a massive improvement over the MBE. (It will run fine without the knock sensor as well - so if you are really watching the cash you only need the wideband lamda and the VR6 Coil http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291072946406?ssPageName=...
Realistically you could do the bare bones installation in one day with suitable documentation and you would only need to spend an additional £140 on top of the cost of the ECU (I would also recommend a rolling road setup but that is your choice). You do not need to be an electronic wizz kid by and stretch of the imagination - The hardest part is just making sure you insert the cables into the correct pin numbers on the ecu plug and these are numbered on the back of the plug. Only thing is you start inserting the cables at the pins closest to the cable entry point on the plug and then move down the connector.
If you are the kind of person who likes to work on your vehicle then I highly recommend the Syvces - it uses a network cable to connect to your laptop and you can change everything and I mean everything on the ECU. The mbe was so limited as to what you could actually adjust as a laymen - Reset adaptive maps and throttle position was as exciting as it got with the MBE.
More updates to follow
The wideband sensor is an NTK L2H2 - it is expensive to buy in the UK but can be picked up cheaply from the USA - just have to wait a bit longer for it to be delivered.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGK-NTK-24300-L2H2-L1H1-...
You need to check your manifold to see if uses the M18 boss and not the M12 boss - Some speed 6 engines use a smaller diameter lamda sensor (3 wire) the 4 wire ones are M18 and can be directly replaced by the wideband sensor.
The knock sensor I used was this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-Bosch-KNOCK-SENSOR-02...
It is mounted on the back of the cylinder head on the exhaust manifold side - the cylinder head has the mounting point as standard and it is inline with the finger follower shaft for the exhaust valves - It is held on by a 30mm M8 bolt. I did not use the existing cable for the knock sensor on the speed 6 loom and just ran a new shielded 2 wire cable. The plugs can be bought from Simtek and are the "timer power connector" 2 pin female range of plugs.
Also if you do want to go down the route of the "fly loom" Simtek sell the MBE style ecu connectors - I used the circuit board mounted one as you do not have to buy terminal pins as well and soldered the cables onto the tabs and then mounted it in a small plastic enclosure - I however as stated previously do not recommend this method.
If you are feeling "like a boss" RS components actually sell the neptune connectors for the bulk head so you could buy the male connector and just build a new loom from the bulkhead to the ECU. This way you would still have the old loom and could refit the MBE ecu if required. The advantage of this - your car will not be immobilised while undertaking the installation as if you only get halfway through you can switch the looms around and put the MBE back in (just remember to have the correct coil pack in place the Syvecs ECU will be PERMANENTLY DAMAGED if connected to the standard coil - The vr6 coil pack will be PERMANENTLY DAMAGED if connected to the MBE). As you have to cut the existing coil pack plug off the loom buy 2 * 5 pin Amp plugs and you can make a mini adapter loom using the original plug and a 5 pin connector so you can interchange the two coils.
AMP connector 5 pin
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111284781497?ssPageName=...
These are the part number from RS components for the Neptune connector and the terminals
Male 32 way connector RS# 444-4139 Manf# 192900-0015 Qty 1
Term Male Power RS# 437-4709 Manf# 031-8717-021 Qty 4
Term Male Signal RS# 273-5348 Manf# 192900-0002 Qty 28
The internal loom just uses PVC insulated wire so it is significantly cheaper than the ETFE cable used in the engine bay. You could build the loom yourself for well under £50. When I have more time I am going to replace my fly loom with one built using the above method.
Spare terminal pins for the Syvecs plug can be bought from Mouser.co.uk but in all fairness it is unlikely you will need them as they Syvecs ECU comes with loads and I have over 25 terminals left.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGK-NTK-24300-L2H2-L1H1-...
You need to check your manifold to see if uses the M18 boss and not the M12 boss - Some speed 6 engines use a smaller diameter lamda sensor (3 wire) the 4 wire ones are M18 and can be directly replaced by the wideband sensor.
The knock sensor I used was this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-Bosch-KNOCK-SENSOR-02...
It is mounted on the back of the cylinder head on the exhaust manifold side - the cylinder head has the mounting point as standard and it is inline with the finger follower shaft for the exhaust valves - It is held on by a 30mm M8 bolt. I did not use the existing cable for the knock sensor on the speed 6 loom and just ran a new shielded 2 wire cable. The plugs can be bought from Simtek and are the "timer power connector" 2 pin female range of plugs.
Also if you do want to go down the route of the "fly loom" Simtek sell the MBE style ecu connectors - I used the circuit board mounted one as you do not have to buy terminal pins as well and soldered the cables onto the tabs and then mounted it in a small plastic enclosure - I however as stated previously do not recommend this method.
If you are feeling "like a boss" RS components actually sell the neptune connectors for the bulk head so you could buy the male connector and just build a new loom from the bulkhead to the ECU. This way you would still have the old loom and could refit the MBE ecu if required. The advantage of this - your car will not be immobilised while undertaking the installation as if you only get halfway through you can switch the looms around and put the MBE back in (just remember to have the correct coil pack in place the Syvecs ECU will be PERMANENTLY DAMAGED if connected to the standard coil - The vr6 coil pack will be PERMANENTLY DAMAGED if connected to the MBE). As you have to cut the existing coil pack plug off the loom buy 2 * 5 pin Amp plugs and you can make a mini adapter loom using the original plug and a 5 pin connector so you can interchange the two coils.
AMP connector 5 pin
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111284781497?ssPageName=...
These are the part number from RS components for the Neptune connector and the terminals
Male 32 way connector RS# 444-4139 Manf# 192900-0015 Qty 1
Term Male Power RS# 437-4709 Manf# 031-8717-021 Qty 4
Term Male Signal RS# 273-5348 Manf# 192900-0002 Qty 28
The internal loom just uses PVC insulated wire so it is significantly cheaper than the ETFE cable used in the engine bay. You could build the loom yourself for well under £50. When I have more time I am going to replace my fly loom with one built using the above method.
Spare terminal pins for the Syvecs plug can be bought from Mouser.co.uk but in all fairness it is unlikely you will need them as they Syvecs ECU comes with loads and I have over 25 terminals left.
Camshaft position Sensor
Due to my initial lack of understanding of sensors I installed a "reluctance" type sensor which is the same that is used for the crankshaft position sensor the problem with these which are generally 2 wire types they create a signal that is a sin wave with positive and negative voltages. These sensors can only be connected to the bipolar inputs on the ECU - if you do this you will not have enough spare inputs for the wheel speed sensors and will not be able to use traction control.
The three wire hall effect sensors use a 5v reference and produce a square wave 0v or 5v output when triggered by teeth on the trigger wheel. Think of them as more like a reed switch in the way they behave (I am not sure if there are 2 wire hall effects so if anyone knows please interject). With these sensors you can connect them to the uniploar input on the syvces plus they produce a much stronger signal for the cam shaft.
I am now using one of these sensors
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350977409255?ssPageName=...
I will take a photo of the mounting I fabricated and publish all the dimensions of the mounts when I next have the bonnet off the car and can access it (there was a great deal of trial and error to fit it originally so was not working to any drawings ). What I may also be able to do when I get a chance is create a printable template so you know where to drill the hole in the cam cover - 2 holes are required a larger one for the mount with the sensor and a second for the bolt that holds it in place to the cam cover - you will also need to tap the smaller hole for the bolt. The bush for the bolt on the sprocket has to be made from steel - I used the head of an m10 socket cap bolt drilled out the center with and 8mm drill and then turned it down on a lathe as to match the head of the m8 bolt. The clearance between the bolt and the timing chain cover and the cam cover is very tight less than 1mm - but that is what is required for a strong reliable signal.
Due to my initial lack of understanding of sensors I installed a "reluctance" type sensor which is the same that is used for the crankshaft position sensor the problem with these which are generally 2 wire types they create a signal that is a sin wave with positive and negative voltages. These sensors can only be connected to the bipolar inputs on the ECU - if you do this you will not have enough spare inputs for the wheel speed sensors and will not be able to use traction control.
The three wire hall effect sensors use a 5v reference and produce a square wave 0v or 5v output when triggered by teeth on the trigger wheel. Think of them as more like a reed switch in the way they behave (I am not sure if there are 2 wire hall effects so if anyone knows please interject). With these sensors you can connect them to the uniploar input on the syvces plus they produce a much stronger signal for the cam shaft.
I am now using one of these sensors
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350977409255?ssPageName=...
I will take a photo of the mounting I fabricated and publish all the dimensions of the mounts when I next have the bonnet off the car and can access it (there was a great deal of trial and error to fit it originally so was not working to any drawings ). What I may also be able to do when I get a chance is create a printable template so you know where to drill the hole in the cam cover - 2 holes are required a larger one for the mount with the sensor and a second for the bolt that holds it in place to the cam cover - you will also need to tap the smaller hole for the bolt. The bush for the bolt on the sprocket has to be made from steel - I used the head of an m10 socket cap bolt drilled out the center with and 8mm drill and then turned it down on a lathe as to match the head of the m8 bolt. The clearance between the bolt and the timing chain cover and the cam cover is very tight less than 1mm - but that is what is required for a strong reliable signal.
Fascinating read. Thanks.
I've been running Syvecs for a few years and it is the most phenominal not of kit. My engine idle is so smooth and just accelerating gently up through the Rev range you can feel all the periodic flat spots from the MBE have gone. It makes the car feel much more modern and refined, in a good way.
Adding the sensors and the brains of the SYVECS means you can run far more optimised maps so squeeze notably more performance out of the engine.
I've been running Syvecs for a few years and it is the most phenominal not of kit. My engine idle is so smooth and just accelerating gently up through the Rev range you can feel all the periodic flat spots from the MBE have gone. It makes the car feel much more modern and refined, in a good way.
Adding the sensors and the brains of the SYVECS means you can run far more optimised maps so squeeze notably more performance out of the engine.
stevieeg said:
I've been thinking about this for some time. Not sure if I'd have the patience to go the DIY route though, as I suspect I wouldn't get it done before summer.
Is the overall effect to turn the volume level down with an efficient map? If so could be invaluable for track days.
The route I'm going should have it up and running within a weekend or two. RG have an exclusive deal with the original TVR loom builders. So they can supply the syvecs to bulkhead loom ready to go. That will remove some of the fiddly bits. Should be sorting out all the bits in the next two weeks. Is the overall effect to turn the volume level down with an efficient map? If so could be invaluable for track days.
I've built mating looms in the past doing engine transplants (before married life
) simply don't have enough time anymore. What's even better with syvecs is you can hook upto it with an iPad or android tablet. A lot less faffing than a lap top and there's a Bluetooth module if I remember right.
Edited by m4tti on Sunday 11th January 10:45
Gassing Station | Tuscan | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff