Discussion
There's no perfect cut off date, sorry. I know of engines all the way from '99 up to the present going back for vacations at the seaside.
It's fair to say that there are a lot less rebuilds at particularly premature mileages for finger follower issues from mid 2002 onwards, though.
My honest opinion: if you can't stomach the cost of a rebuild, don't buy one. You can mitigate against the risk a lot, but unless you're buying new you really can't be sure...
It's fair to say that there are a lot less rebuilds at particularly premature mileages for finger follower issues from mid 2002 onwards, though.
My honest opinion: if you can't stomach the cost of a rebuild, don't buy one. You can mitigate against the risk a lot, but unless you're buying new you really can't be sure...
T88CAN said:
Another one scared off then
well whilstever they're still going bang can you blame them??
james has it right .. the issues are well known, anyone who buys and thinks they'll get away without any engine problems is dillusional. If you get away with it count yourself lucky .. if you suffer an engine related fault then you're just another notch on the post...
joospeed said:
Another one scared off then
well whilstever they're still going bang can you blame them??
james has it right .. the issues are well known, anyone who buys and thinks they'll get away without any engine problems is dillusional. If you get away with it count yourself lucky .. if you suffer an engine related fault then you're just another notch on the post...
They where "failing" (i won`t use the word bang as i don`t know of many Speed 6 actually going "bang" no doubt someone on here might like to put me straight on it
)last year, the year before that and the year before that, what annoys me is the fact that people on here seem to quote the the first 4/5 figure sum that comes into there head up to £10k for the work when if you use your head and get the right people on side it will cost a lot less than you think, warranty or not, Engine problems? so what? if you really want one and follow my advice it won`t be the big headache EVERYONE seems to think, Speed6 is the futre whether you like it or not
T88CAN said:
They where "failing" (i won`t use the word bang as i don`t know of many Speed 6 actually going "bang" no doubt someone on here might like to put me straight on it
The noise they actually make when giving up the ghost is pretty irrelevant, really.
People HAVE been quoted lots of different figures for rebuilds, though, as there are lots of reasons for rebuilds and circumstances with dealers, etc.
In order of convulsion-inducing cost:
Some people will be able to get the dealer to foot the entire bill.
Some people will be (or "were") able to get the factory to do a fixed-price "goodwill" rebuild
Some people just need top-end rebuilds
Some people need more work doing to take care of all the crap left further down the block from issues with the top end going
And some people need a full top-to-bottom-end rebuild (for one reason or another)
Then there's people quoting costs with/without VAT. With/without charges for Red Rose conversions at the same time. With/without having the car serviced at the same time. Etc. Etc.
Assuming no "goodwill" anymore, I can't see you coming out of this with any better resolution than a £3k bill and a month of not having the car. And I can easily see it coming to significantly more than that.
T88CAN said:
Engine problems? so what? if you really want one and follow my advice it won`t be the big headache
EVERYONE seems to think, Speed6 is the futre whether you like it or not
So what? Sorry, but that's just plain remiss. So it's a modern car. So it shouldn't need rebuild after rebuild. So it shouldn't be LESS RELIABLE than outgoing models and engines. So it shouldn't be the customer that has to foot the bill for something that's NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. 6 years they're liable for. 6 years. No Tuscan owner out there should be paying for rebuilds yet. If it was a one off, maybe. It it was 10 off, well, "these things happen". Possibly. But HUNDREDS. Literally HUNDREDS. Possibly many more.
It IS the big headache everyone says. It can easily involve months (and will DEFINITELY involve weeks) of hassle, being without a car, bills of four figure sums, worries over things seizing up while it's off the road (clutch slave cylinder, anyone?), chasing garages around, etc. All on a car that was built in the 21st Century and generally has less than 20k on the clock?
The S6 is only the future if it throws off the reputation of the past (and a reputation it deserved). If not then it'll be the death of TVR sooner or later - the number of people on PH alone that won't trade up to an S6 engined car, or having had one won't buy another should show the scale of this problem. Even if it's sorted, even if it's the best engine in the world now, they'd get more customers by switching it to an LS1!
I stand by what I said before:
If you buy new, TVR honour the 3 year warranty, and you're happy with the depreciation on a new car, great - they're fantastic cars.
If you can afford to spend what's probably going to be £3-4k, and are willing to take the risk, then still great - they're fantastic pre-owned cars, too.
But if you go into it thinking "I'd be unlucky to needa rebuild, and I can just about scrape together the costs to run one other than that", so I'll chance it then an emphatic no. Especially if you're going to rely on it day-in, day-out. I'd expect any TVR to be unexpectedly off the road for a bit once in a year. This just raises the stakes.
Sorry to rant, but people who can't afford these problems running into them is far worse than putting off a couple of prospective owners who know their limits.
I've haven't read such opinionated tripe in a thread for ages. I speak from the experience of having a 2001 Tuscan S that has recently had a rebuild and I'm about to take delivery of a mark 2 S. These cars have unparalleld performance at a bargain basement price. If you don't believe me go and ask a Ferrari owner. Their servicing costs & depreciation are awesome. Do I expect some niggles with my new car, of course. My best advice if you're looking for a pre-owned Tuscan is to find one that has had a rebuild with a decent mileage (i.e. a car that's been used on a daily or near daily basis) & has had a rebuild post Smolenski.
I've haven't read such opinionated tripe in a thread for ages. I speak from the experience of having a 2001 Tuscan S that has recently had a rebuild and I'm about to take delivery of a mark 2 S. These cars have unparalleld performance at a bargain basement price. If you don't believe me go and ask a Ferrari owner. Their servicing costs & depreciation are awesome. Do I expect some niggles with my new car, of course. My best advice if you're looking for a pre-owned Tuscan is to find one that has had a rebuild with a decent mileage (i.e. a car that's been used on a daily or near daily basis) & has had a rebuild post Smolenski.
theblacktuscks said:
I've haven't read such opinionated tripe in a thread for ages.
...
I'm about to take delivery of a mark 2 S.
'nuff said. And for those that aren't made of money, "semi-retired", can't afford a brand new one with a 3 year warranty, and don't have an XK8 convertible for the days when the Tuscan being back at the garage AGAIN means they're otherwise immobilised, my point still stands.
Ownership's easy when you're not reliant on it working...
If you'd had the number of e-mails in your inbox I've got of "my engine's blown up, TVR won't pay a penny towards it, I need to get to work, I can't afford the rebuild, and I really don't know what to do", you'd see it differently. There are people out there in serious trouble because of an INHERENT FAULT that's TVR'S DOING. Opinionated tripe my arse - play the optimist all you like, but there's a significant risk involved in ownership, and downplaying it does no one any favours other than you for your residuals.
>> Edited by J_S_G on Thursday 14th April 02:05
JSG, is no numpty when it comes to Tuscans and the Speed 6 engine - the guy has done untold numbers of reports and statistics gathering in the past. He's been to the four corners of the TVR support world to gain exclusive info and technical support...
I believe JSG's words in not so many words were along the lines of:
a) An everyday car is not a Tuscan, but you could be lucky and it might be ok for you - wanna play russian roulette?
b) If you got the funds to support issues, warranty in place, another car to use and you're ok with that - then not an issue.
c) Can be a financial stretch - if you are already on the edge after purchasing the car, then the risks you are taking on are your own choice.
d) There were problems, there are problems, there could be problems. Ownership is not enjoyable if you have to start worrying about bills...
Give the guy a break fellas, he only means well, and the comment about 'tripe'? I'd take that back, that wasnt called for.
Intelligent debate - thats all it is.
And believe it or not, he's been growing quite fond of a MK2 Tusc and the saggy!
Ash.
I believe JSG's words in not so many words were along the lines of:
a) An everyday car is not a Tuscan, but you could be lucky and it might be ok for you - wanna play russian roulette?
b) If you got the funds to support issues, warranty in place, another car to use and you're ok with that - then not an issue.
c) Can be a financial stretch - if you are already on the edge after purchasing the car, then the risks you are taking on are your own choice.
d) There were problems, there are problems, there could be problems. Ownership is not enjoyable if you have to start worrying about bills...
Give the guy a break fellas, he only means well, and the comment about 'tripe'? I'd take that back, that wasnt called for.
Intelligent debate - thats all it is.
And believe it or not, he's been growing quite fond of a MK2 Tusc and the saggy!
Ash.
And now that I've mellowed after another glass of bubbly, and Ash's put some context to it...
I love Tuscans. I really do. I want their babies. In fact, I want them all up and down the street in a multitude of colours. And I want their close relations, too - Sagari, T350s, even (deformed) black-sheep Tamoras.
Came very close to ordering a Sagaris this last couple of days, until I looked up at the 32" print of a DB9 on the wall and remembered why it is I've backed out of such cars for the time being, and what I'm saving for.
Tuscs are great. Phenomenal cars. To the point it pains me to see someone else with one when I've not got one any more. There's nothing else like it (would be nice if they sounded like a true V8, mind).
But (and it's a big but - a bit like mine
), it's not all rosey. If it's either running great, or it being broken for a few weeks and inflicting four figure bills on you doesn't matter, then there's no problem. For some people that'll always be the case. For many, many others that isn't the case. Considering you can pick one up for £20k or so, you've got people on £30-odd thousand a year buying them. And that's just a recipe for disaster. Hell, even on 40-odd, I'd be "cautious" at the very least. And then there's the issue of truly relying on it every day to get you to client offices.
Eyes wide open; there's no point claiming it's the best car in the world. It's not. Best looking, possibly. Best performing for the money (or plenty of money more)? A definite contender. Best fun? Has to be up there. Best reliability? No. Possibly the worst.
I love Tuscans. I really do. I want their babies. In fact, I want them all up and down the street in a multitude of colours. And I want their close relations, too - Sagari, T350s, even (deformed) black-sheep Tamoras.
Came very close to ordering a Sagaris this last couple of days, until I looked up at the 32" print of a DB9 on the wall and remembered why it is I've backed out of such cars for the time being, and what I'm saving for.
Tuscs are great. Phenomenal cars. To the point it pains me to see someone else with one when I've not got one any more. There's nothing else like it (would be nice if they sounded like a true V8, mind).
But (and it's a big but - a bit like mine
), it's not all rosey. If it's either running great, or it being broken for a few weeks and inflicting four figure bills on you doesn't matter, then there's no problem. For some people that'll always be the case. For many, many others that isn't the case. Considering you can pick one up for £20k or so, you've got people on £30-odd thousand a year buying them. And that's just a recipe for disaster. Hell, even on 40-odd, I'd be "cautious" at the very least. And then there's the issue of truly relying on it every day to get you to client offices. Eyes wide open; there's no point claiming it's the best car in the world. It's not. Best looking, possibly. Best performing for the money (or plenty of money more)? A definite contender. Best fun? Has to be up there. Best reliability? No. Possibly the worst.
To any new buyers, don't assume the new engines are sorted. My Tuscan S is at the factory right now having the engine rebuilt, after it had only been rebuilt 2000 miles ago in November. It was run in absolutely perfectly, had the 1000 mile service at 950 miles, yet still died due apparently to valves not sealing properly.
I dropped it off because the door had started opening randomly, and because the drivers window had started opening randomly, both when driving and when locked and alarmed. TVR phoned me and said the engine had gone bad, and that I'd get it back in "3-4 weeks". That was about 6 weeks ago I think (losing track), and I'm now told it won't be ready till the end of April. At least it's under warranty.
So in summary, the engine may well die, and the result is that you may be without the car for months. I wonder if I'll get mine back for the summer.
Always been a big fan of the marque but beginning to lose faith. At least my trusty Taimar Turbo is still alive and well, but then I've always had that serviced by Adrian Venn.
I dropped it off because the door had started opening randomly, and because the drivers window had started opening randomly, both when driving and when locked and alarmed. TVR phoned me and said the engine had gone bad, and that I'd get it back in "3-4 weeks". That was about 6 weeks ago I think (losing track), and I'm now told it won't be ready till the end of April. At least it's under warranty.
So in summary, the engine may well die, and the result is that you may be without the car for months. I wonder if I'll get mine back for the summer.
Always been a big fan of the marque but beginning to lose faith. At least my trusty Taimar Turbo is still alive and well, but then I've always had that serviced by Adrian Venn.
alexf said:
TVR phoned me and said the engine had gone bad, and that I'd get it back in "3-4 weeks". That was about 6 weeks ago I think (losing track), and I'm now told it won't be ready till the end of April. At least it's under warranty.
Sadly that's why the 3 year warranty isn't enough to tempt me back. There's no reason a rebuild shouldn't be done at the dealers and turned around in less than a fortnight.
One thing I've been pondering. NS bought a load of used s6 cars to loan to Saggy-ass customers. When the first batch of cars has been returned to the factory what will happen to them?
A yard sale? Perhaps they could use them as loaners to the s6 rebuild queue?
If you've got a 3 yr engine warranty and get a car for the month (or 2) that it takes to rebuild an engine then surely that would be more appealing (though I admit, not ideal).
A yard sale? Perhaps they could use them as loaners to the s6 rebuild queue?
If you've got a 3 yr engine warranty and get a car for the month (or 2) that it takes to rebuild an engine then surely that would be more appealing (though I admit, not ideal).
_DeeJay_ said:
If you've got a 3 yr engine warranty and get a car for the month (or 2) that it takes to rebuild an engine then surely that would be more appealing (though I admit, not ideal).
To me that would be ideal... I could rack miles up on someone else's car.
Seriously, three year warranty + guaranteed loan of another S6/AJP engined TVR whenever the car was back at the garage, and I'd find it very hard (if not impossible) not to go down to the dealers this weekend.
Now, if they could just release a new convertible based on the Sagaris...
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