Won't Start - Please Help
Discussion
I've had my fair share of cold start problems. I am now starting to see red.
Hadn't used it for six days. It's been parked outside under a cover since last Sunday (and not plugged into a battery charger). Started it this morning and straight away I could tell that something was wrong: the engine was lumpier than prison porridge. Anyway, after 20 seconds or so it died and I got an EFI message.
Well, I've seen plenty of those so I don't worry too much about the pod's take on reality. But now it will not start at all.
1. The engine turns over.
2. I smell petrol.
3. I have checked fuses 17 (ignition coils), 19 (fuel injectors) and 34 (fuel pump). All are okay.
4. I've had a butcher's at the fuel pump switch in the boot. It looks like this:
(Which is different to the picture in the manual.)
I don't know what else to do. Can anyone shed any light?
[major_league_rant]Every time I get into the car I am nervous, worried that it will not start. The car frequently exhibits start-up idiosyncrasies that are themselves enough to get my hands trembling. But the ratio of cold starts to problems in two months of ownership is outrageously high. Most of the time it's okay, though, so what can I say to a dealer to get it all sorted? I don't give a stuff about trolls, I just want something that works.[/major_league_rant]
Hadn't used it for six days. It's been parked outside under a cover since last Sunday (and not plugged into a battery charger). Started it this morning and straight away I could tell that something was wrong: the engine was lumpier than prison porridge. Anyway, after 20 seconds or so it died and I got an EFI message.
Well, I've seen plenty of those so I don't worry too much about the pod's take on reality. But now it will not start at all.
1. The engine turns over.
2. I smell petrol.
3. I have checked fuses 17 (ignition coils), 19 (fuel injectors) and 34 (fuel pump). All are okay.
4. I've had a butcher's at the fuel pump switch in the boot. It looks like this:
(Which is different to the picture in the manual.)
I don't know what else to do. Can anyone shed any light?
[major_league_rant]Every time I get into the car I am nervous, worried that it will not start. The car frequently exhibits start-up idiosyncrasies that are themselves enough to get my hands trembling. But the ratio of cold starts to problems in two months of ownership is outrageously high. Most of the time it's okay, though, so what can I say to a dealer to get it all sorted? I don't give a stuff about trolls, I just want something that works.[/major_league_rant]
I'd suggest leaving it for an hour or so and trying again. Sounds like it's flooded. There was a hint somewhere in the Tamora section on which fuse to remove to turn the engine over without fuel to dry it out.
Also you may wish to try jump starting it, as it does not take much to drain the battery enough to allow it to turn over but not fire.
Once going, I suggest getting a quick check over/engine service done by a good TVR dealer/Independant with Speed 6 knowledge.
Don't worry, once you get the hang of it, or get it serviced it should be fine. Mine is 5 years old next month and only not started once due to a faulty starter motor.
Good luck.
Whitey
Also you may wish to try jump starting it, as it does not take much to drain the battery enough to allow it to turn over but not fire.
Once going, I suggest getting a quick check over/engine service done by a good TVR dealer/Independant with Speed 6 knowledge.
Don't worry, once you get the hang of it, or get it serviced it should be fine. Mine is 5 years old next month and only not started once due to a faulty starter motor.
Good luck.
Whitey
Thanks, whitey. I've done the "remove the fuel pump relay" thing before in order to dry out the engine and that method worked fine when the cause of the problem was a blown ignition coil fuse.
However, that fuse is now sorted. Nonetheless, this morning after three or four attempts at getting the thing to start, I tried removing the fuel pump relay but the engine doesn't event want to catch.
I've put the battery charger on and will leave it overnight before trying again tomorrow morning.
Am I right in thinking you posted something about an "earth strap" last year? Not my kind of DIY but if it's a common fault and exhibits the same characteristics as those described earlier, perhaps I should have it checked.
If it doesn't start tomorrow I'm getting it trucked to my local dealer and will ask them to service it at the same time (two months early).
May even swear a bit to see if I feel any better.
Has anyone ever asked their dealer to "overhaul the entire start-up process"? I guess this would include things like:
- battery check
- earth strap connection
- ignition coil fuse uprated to 20A
- etc
Perhaps a sticky is called for listing possible causes of cold- and warm-start problems and their solutions, and including practical tips on best start-up procedure and so on.
However, that fuse is now sorted. Nonetheless, this morning after three or four attempts at getting the thing to start, I tried removing the fuel pump relay but the engine doesn't event want to catch.
I've put the battery charger on and will leave it overnight before trying again tomorrow morning.
Am I right in thinking you posted something about an "earth strap" last year? Not my kind of DIY but if it's a common fault and exhibits the same characteristics as those described earlier, perhaps I should have it checked.
If it doesn't start tomorrow I'm getting it trucked to my local dealer and will ask them to service it at the same time (two months early).
May even swear a bit to see if I feel any better. Has anyone ever asked their dealer to "overhaul the entire start-up process"? I guess this would include things like:
- battery check
- earth strap connection
- ignition coil fuse uprated to 20A
- etc
Perhaps a sticky is called for listing possible causes of cold- and warm-start problems and their solutions, and including practical tips on best start-up procedure and so on.
itchy said:OK, so there is any number of possibilities....
Started it this morning and straight away I could tell that something was wrong: the engine was lumpier than prison porridge. Anyway, after 20 seconds or so it died and I got an EFI message.
...and this is really only a bit of "long-distance speculation" to get a bit of "blue-sky thinking" on the matter....
...but, perhaps the fact that it started rules out a simple electrical failure, like a fuse - but it could be something like ECU or HT circuit somewhere?
...also fuel must have got through initially, and you're still smelling fuel, so perhaps petrol is getting through OK?
Different car, I know, but my Griff went through a phase once where it would start, but would act up ("lumpier than porridge"
and could then die. The symptoms were brought about by some corrosion getting into the ECU connectors, thus disrupting the inputs and confusing the system. It needed a good clean up after a bit of head scratching by the Batty-man and all the problems were cured. Looking back it made a lot of sense, the possibility was that a previous owner may have had the engine steam cleaned. Now the Tuscan set up lends itself very well for damp to get into the engine bay, I just wonder if you might be seeing something similar? How old is the car, and what is its usual habitat and behaviour???
Sounds to me like you may have condensation somewhere, causing the efi error. I've had the same on mine a couple of times over the last couple of weeks when not been run for a few days and once it does start it clears once warmed up a bit. It feels at first like it is only running on about 3 cylinders. If the starter is spinning ok and turning the engine then it's unlikeley you've got a charging issue. What voltage is the dash showing when you turn on the ignition? The picture you've shown is actually the connector for the fuel level sensor. The switch is further to the left I think.
Agree that you may have flooded it if been trying to turn it over for a while.
Agree that you may have flooded it if been trying to turn it over for a while.
beano500 said:
How old is the car, and what is its usual habitat and behaviour???
Thanks, beano. The car is an '02, registered in June of that year. In "normal" mode I turn the engine over, it catches after a couple of seconds and I blip the throttle repeatedly to keep it from stalling until such time as it settles down. Idle is at 600rpm. I believe this is standard behaviour.
Occasionally, though, as I've posted elsewhere, it will fire up and then die almost immediately afterwards, as if I haven't caught it properly on the throttle. Then, it can be a real bugger to get going: continuous cranking while pumping the throttle.
I've also witnessed white smoke billowing from under the bonnet shortly after firing up although this is brief and, I understand, due to moisture.
It's worth noting that the car has been under wraps all week in a made-for-a-Tuscan cover and although it rained first thing this morning, when I unfurled it the car was bone dry (as you would expect). Crikey, if it's going to be fussy about wet weather starting then there's no future!
basil brush said:
It feels at first like it is only running on about 3 cylinders.
Yes!
basil brush said:
If the starter is spinning ok and turning the engine then it's unlikeley you've got a charging issue.
True although I guess a week's non-use, coupled with a tracker, can drag the battery down. I see plenty of threads herein about low battery start problems.
basil brush said:
What voltage is the dash showing when you turn on the ignition?
I'll check this.
basil brush said:
The picture you've shown is actually the connector for the fuel level sensor. The switch is further to the left I think.
Oops. That said, there's nothing else visible. Should I peel back some layers?
basil brush said:
Agree that you may have flooded it if been trying to turn it over for a while.
I'm temperamentally disinclined to hold the starter motor open for long periods because I know what trouble that causes. Still, if moisture is causing a misfire then it's conceivable that one or more cylinders are now swimming...
Like I said, though, removing the fuel pump relay made no difference: there wasn't even a hint that the motor was about to catch.
itchy said:Ted's had the bonnet up again.....
Blast, I've just added two posts to this thread and they've disappeared. Didn't know TVR did software
My first thought is that you ARE getting a condensation problem. You mention steam/white smoke rising up and I wonder if this is the key. Perhaps your cover is so good, it's keeping the moisture in from when the car is last used?
Disclaimer: I'm only an amateur guesser at this game - your dealer/independent should be able to work it all out (who do you use?).
Good luck, fingers crossed for when you et the battery charged back up. May just need a good run, as Tivs do from time to time - I hope so...
beano500 said:
Blast, I've just added two posts to this thread and they've disappeared. Didn't know TVR did software
Ted's had the bonnet up again.....
My first thought is that you ARE getting a condensation problem. You mention steam/white smoke rising up and I wonder if this is the key. Perhaps your cover is so good, it's keeping the moisture in from when the car is last used?
Disclaimer: I'm only an amateur guesser at this game - your dealer/independent should be able to work it all out (who do you use?).
Good luck, fingers crossed for when you et the battery charged back up. May just need a good run, as Tivs do from time to time - I hope so...
I have one of those expensive, breathable Noah covers. Furthermore, it does not touch the ground and billows nicely in the wind. That said, the last thing I did before putting it to bed last Sunday was wash it...
The steam thing didn't happen this time around, BTW.
Gatwick TVR is my local deposit-only bank.
I am persevering and I've learned a lot from you all these last couple of months, but things must settle down otherwise there will come a time...
itchy said:
I am persevering and I've learned a lot from you all these last couple of months, but things must settle down otherwise there will come a time...
Nooooooooo!!! Stick with it! Four years ago I switched to a Griff 500 as my main, then only transport. This was to much derision from my work colleagues who were expecting me to break down every day. Well we had the odd up and down day with the Griff, but overall it was worth it in the long run. I can honestly thing of hardly any "problem" days in comparison to the enormous
factor on a daily basis..... And if you ever find that your current "deposit-only" TVR Bank isn't up to your expectations, Dave Batty has a great attitude and service, there's also Andy at APM and others within easy striking distance for you.
beano500 said:
Dave Batty has a great attitude and service, there's also Andy at APM and others within easy striking distance for you.
That's good to know. Batty used to play for Leeds, a gritty defensive midfielder with a no-nonsense approach to his work. Where can I find him now?
I'll keep you posted re progress. Thanks for all your input.
Chris.
Certainly sounds like as you put it under cover after washing it and then got an EFI fault it is water/moisture related. I always run the engine after washing mine to get some heat in the engine bay to dry excess water coupled with a trip around the block to dry the brakes off.
Maybe leave the car cover off tonight to get some air flowing around the engine?
cheers
Whitey
PS. A good service will sort it out. If it has not been touched for 10 months, it's very likely it needs it. My car normally gets an extra tweek at least once between services at first sign of any non standard behaviour
>> Edited by whitey on Saturday 7th May 16:37
Maybe leave the car cover off tonight to get some air flowing around the engine?
cheers
Whitey
PS. A good service will sort it out. If it has not been touched for 10 months, it's very likely it needs it. My car normally gets an extra tweek at least once between services at first sign of any non standard behaviour
>> Edited by whitey on Saturday 7th May 16:37
Nah, it's useless. Pulled out the relay, turned it over, it didn't catch at all and yet there must be some residue of fuel in there.
So: no spark?
It's back on the charger and I'll leave it overnight, cover off.
BTW, in answer to basil brush's question, the voltage was at 13.2V (after five hours on the charger, though).
So: no spark?
It's back on the charger and I'll leave it overnight, cover off.
BTW, in answer to basil brush's question, the voltage was at 13.2V (after five hours on the charger, though).
itchy said:
Nah, it's useless. Pulled out the relay, turned it over, it didn't catch at all and yet there must be some residue of fuel in there.
So: no spark?
It's back on the charger and I'll leave it overnight, cover off.
BTW, in answer to basil brush's question, the voltage was at 13.2V (after five hours on the charger, though).
You tried it without the relay? It doesn't take long for the fuel to go. I'd give it a go with everything connected.
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