Discussion
After putting my cay in for it's 24k(17k on the clock) service, plus replace the battery, I receive a phone call form the garage wanting to discuss the following..
"Work completed/in progress:
24000 Mile Service inc Valve clearance check/adjust: £825
Investigated immobiliser not reacting to fob (attempted to re-synchronise): £20
Required Repairs:
• Reverse light inop & gear lever loose. Remove centre console, tighten gear lever & adjust/replace reverse light switch: £142 (includes new switch if required)
• N/s/f & o/s/r wheels badly buckled & require new due to potential tyre failure. Also, o/s/r tyre not taking pressure. Replace wheels (inc valves): £273/wheel
• Battery faulty and retaining bolts seized. Free-off/replace bolts & replace battery: £170
• O/s/r upper wishbone bushes worn/moved across & now wishbone on chassis creating impact point at chassis mounting eye. Re-bush rear upper wishbones (both sides including fitting modified thrust washers to prevent re-occurance): £217
• O/s/r & n/s/f damper spring retaining collars cracked/broken. Also, n/s/f damper leaking. Replace both front dampers and remove both rear dampers to replace spring retaining collars & refit: £583 (r/r front dampers pair) + £195 (remove both rear dampers, remove existing collars, clean up dampers & replace collars)
Oil leaking from oil tank gasket. Replace gasket: £41
• Front and rear brake discs heavily corroded & x-drillings blocked. Clean up all 4 discs: £110-155
• Front brake caliper abutment pads lifted due to corrosion/debris. Strip and clean up calipers: £77/side
Oil leak from oil pressure sender. Replace sender: £120
• Rear track adjusters corroded & may require additional time to free-off for wheel alignment check/adjust within service: £20/side (if free off ok) or £77/side (if seized & require removal of wishbones to free off)
Exhaust hitting gearbox. Re-align exhaust: £40 / FOC (if engine rebuild carried out)
Throttle cable modification not carried out. Carry out modification complete with new cable and mounting brackets: £190
Excessive play in throttle spindles. Strip and bush throttle bodies: £395 (if done with service)
• Jackshaft pulley & alternator belt loose. Adjust pulley/belt tension: £135 / FOC (if engine rebuild carried out)
• Camchain loose. Adjust chain tension: £39 / FOC (if engine rebuild carried out)
• Water temperature sensor for ECU & terminals corroded. Remove & replace/clean up&refit: £51 (replace) / £39 (remove & clean up if possible)
Slight leak from radiator. Replace radiator: £450
• Immobiliser inop. Disconnect immobiliser & attempt to allow back to default setting: £39 or re-code: £75
• Engine - several valve clearances out of specification and closed up. However, small shims already fitted and if smaller shims now fitted to re-gain correct clearances, shims will sit too low in carriers and camshaft followers will mark up and potential for shims to 'bounce' out. Lack of correct clearance has now possibly created valve seat fault if valves have not been closing fully (i.e valve seats/valves burnt) Also, camshafts and associated followers started to wear. Will require engine removal & head rebuild to rectify. £4500-5000 + VAT for standard complete head rebuild but will require strip and assessment to give final quote as potentially other issues may arise when engine stripped. As a further test, cylinder leakage test will show up full extent of fault and if any other cylinders already affected: £77
The engine faults already evident are obviously very costly to repair as they require at best, a head rebuild to rectify. The leakage test would give us a better indication of the extent of the problem, but if the engine is left in its current condition, there is the possibility for further damage to be caused to the valves. Unfortunately, if we attempt to re-set a correct clearance, the risk is there for either the cam-follower to hit the valve cap instead of the shim, or, even worse, for the shim to actually bounce out with severe potential consequences. The items I have asterisked I know doesn't leave many of the items out, but they are all important to either safety or roadworthiness concerns.
If you wish to discuss any of the reported items further please don't hesitate to contact me. Likewise, if you would like to come in and discuss the potential engine rebuild options and see the faults evident, again, please let me know and we will be more than happy to show you round your car etc.
I await your further authority on how you wish to proceed"
I have owned the car for 20 months, used Silverstone TVR for its service before it closed, now I’m faced with this......Any advice comments very much appreciated
Jim, sorry to see this!
Personally, I would go and get a second opinion, I have had my reverse light switch a LOT less (the reverse switch cost was paltry!) If I use that as the basis of the rest of that costing, you are paying a lot more than you should (compared to some other places)
How the hell can it be that bad with only 17K miles on the clock, are they looking at the right car??
I have just booked my car for its 12K service with Silverstone Performance, as I have lost some faith myself in 'Official TVR' service dealers, to the point where I thought I may as well have put my £1K+ paid each time straight into the fire.
>> Edited by chris watton on Tuesday 31st January 19:02
Ouch!!
Sorry to hear of another sick Tuscan, I would definitely get a second opinion.
But if a head rebuild is needed I wouldn't get it done anywhere else than these guys:
www.austec.co.uk
They had a stand at this years Autosport Show and I spent quite a while talking to the owner, he is a Speed 6 fanatic. To the point of redesigning the majority of components in the head especially the valves. Compared his stuff to the factory originals, I was stunned.
I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had work done by them, but it would be worth speaking to them or better still go down and have a look, they were quoting £3500-£4000 for a head rebuild with all their uprated components with a 2 year guarantee.
Personally I'm not going to take my 2000 Mk1 Tuscan to any one else, which incidentally needed a head rebuild at 29,000 miles (done by previous owner).
Good Luck
Steve
Sorry to hear of another sick Tuscan, I would definitely get a second opinion.
But if a head rebuild is needed I wouldn't get it done anywhere else than these guys:
www.austec.co.uk
They had a stand at this years Autosport Show and I spent quite a while talking to the owner, he is a Speed 6 fanatic. To the point of redesigning the majority of components in the head especially the valves. Compared his stuff to the factory originals, I was stunned.
I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had work done by them, but it would be worth speaking to them or better still go down and have a look, they were quoting £3500-£4000 for a head rebuild with all their uprated components with a 2 year guarantee.
Personally I'm not going to take my 2000 Mk1 Tuscan to any one else, which incidentally needed a head rebuild at 29,000 miles (done by previous owner).
Good Luck
Steve
Jim,
I've only been presented with a list that long on one occasion (having owned three TVR's). I sought a second opinion in that instance and as a result have had no reason to visit the dealer again.
Given where you live, and some of the seemingly expensive prices you quote I suspect you have gone to the same place.
I'd suggest you give Steve & Matt a call at Silverstone Performance for a second opinion. I am of course making an assumption that isn't where you have taken it!!!
Also, do you have a warranty - for example your dampers are BROKEN, not worn, so should/might be covered, especially given the low mileage.
I've only been presented with a list that long on one occasion (having owned three TVR's). I sought a second opinion in that instance and as a result have had no reason to visit the dealer again.
Given where you live, and some of the seemingly expensive prices you quote I suspect you have gone to the same place.
I'd suggest you give Steve & Matt a call at Silverstone Performance for a second opinion. I am of course making an assumption that isn't where you have taken it!!!
Also, do you have a warranty - for example your dampers are BROKEN, not worn, so should/might be covered, especially given the low mileage.
Sounds a bit like a shopping list 
Brake discs... Use em and then clean em out with a drill bit.
Battery... DIY for a fraction of the price.
Immobiliser will reset itself if you disconnect the battery I would imagine.
Compression test in situ will reveal if the valves are burnt out or not.
There is a large amount of money in this that doesn't need to be spent to achieve the same result. I would definitely get a second opinion.
Brake discs... Use em and then clean em out with a drill bit.
Battery... DIY for a fraction of the price.
Immobiliser will reset itself if you disconnect the battery I would imagine.
Compression test in situ will reveal if the valves are burnt out or not.
There is a large amount of money in this that doesn't need to be spent to achieve the same result. I would definitely get a second opinion.
Hi Jim
It sounds exactly like a certain South Oxfordshire garage I used to use. I ended up spending £9k in a year on my Chim with them.
Funnily I'll never go back to them with my Tuscan
For example:-
• Reverse light inop & gear lever loose. Remove centre console, tighten gear lever & adjust/replace reverse light switch: £142 (includes new switch if required)
I'm completely non-technical, but this really is a simple job & takes about 10 minutes once you know how to do it.
The straw that broke the camel's back with me is that they wanted to replace the radiator that they had fitted only a 6 months previously. I took it for a second opinion with a local Indie & low & behold no problem.
If the car's not drivable, why not ask a local indie to go to them? Or maybe Rob Ingleby? It may cost you a couple of hundred quid, but think of the money you'll save!
If you want to PM offline I'll name names & we can compare if it is the same culprits
It sounds exactly like a certain South Oxfordshire garage I used to use. I ended up spending £9k in a year on my Chim with them.
Funnily I'll never go back to them with my Tuscan
For example:-
• Reverse light inop & gear lever loose. Remove centre console, tighten gear lever & adjust/replace reverse light switch: £142 (includes new switch if required)
I'm completely non-technical, but this really is a simple job & takes about 10 minutes once you know how to do it.
The straw that broke the camel's back with me is that they wanted to replace the radiator that they had fitted only a 6 months previously. I took it for a second opinion with a local Indie & low & behold no problem.
If the car's not drivable, why not ask a local indie to go to them? Or maybe Rob Ingleby? It may cost you a couple of hundred quid, but think of the money you'll save!
If you want to PM offline I'll name names & we can compare if it is the same culprits
snowy said:
The car is not driveable in its current state, how do you get a second opinion.
1. Get the current dealer to put it back together again - why exactly is it not driveable - you drove it there (I assume), it has been serviced, so should you should be able to drive it away again.
2. Trailer it.
Of course, if you go for option 1, then don't go running to the original dealer if something goes wrong en route to dealer 2! And if you believe the list of problems, drive well within the limits of the car.
The car was delivered to the garage on a back of a lorry as the battery was completed knackered, could not be doing with jump starting the thing then driving to that garage, so called the breakdown people to delivery it, which they did. So to get a second opinion, get the car put back together and drive carefully to next garage. Or get the next garage to collect from first garage
At about 27,000 miles I took my 2000 Tusc in for the once over to lok at a few niggles, as I wanted to decide whether to have by car 'for keeps' and tart up all the things needed to keep it on the road for another couple of years or get shot.
Your list is spookily similar to mine. Among others the timing chains, alternator belt, alternator, oil leaks, pressure sender, new wheels and tyres, suspension seized and biting the dust, radiator leaks, reverse light, indicator earthing and wiring problem, etc etc...
On top of this, as my car had never had a rebuild and the car was fitted with slim shims at the 24k service, I also had to take this into consideration.
On my list of upgrades was a stereo upgrade, but when I got the potential bill to fix up everything to the standard I wanted it, this became just a bit out of the question.
As I didnt have a spare £10,000 for all the things I wanted to fix to keep the car for a few more years I spent £1200 fixing the immediate faults and got rid. I suppose you are left with a similar choice. Technically the car is still drivable, and I suppose you could put up with everything until the part fails and replace whenever you can. The other scenario is once everything is fixed, you have a great chance to upgrade the knackered suspension for Nitrons, get the engine rebuild by TVR Craft, and see if they can offer a better labour rate for the rest of the work. Then you will have a car which will see you sorted for hopefully some years.
Your list is spookily similar to mine. Among others the timing chains, alternator belt, alternator, oil leaks, pressure sender, new wheels and tyres, suspension seized and biting the dust, radiator leaks, reverse light, indicator earthing and wiring problem, etc etc...
On top of this, as my car had never had a rebuild and the car was fitted with slim shims at the 24k service, I also had to take this into consideration.
On my list of upgrades was a stereo upgrade, but when I got the potential bill to fix up everything to the standard I wanted it, this became just a bit out of the question.
As I didnt have a spare £10,000 for all the things I wanted to fix to keep the car for a few more years I spent £1200 fixing the immediate faults and got rid. I suppose you are left with a similar choice. Technically the car is still drivable, and I suppose you could put up with everything until the part fails and replace whenever you can. The other scenario is once everything is fixed, you have a great chance to upgrade the knackered suspension for Nitrons, get the engine rebuild by TVR Craft, and see if they can offer a better labour rate for the rest of the work. Then you will have a car which will see you sorted for hopefully some years.
UpTheIron said:
...sensible stuff...
I thought so - it had their finger prints all over it. I can't believe that I put up with it for so long, just for the 'prestige' of having their stamp in my service history. I've wised up a bit since then!!
Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes.
snowy said:
The car was delivered to the garage on a back of a lorry as the battery was completed knackered, could not be doing with jump starting the thing then driving to that garage, so called the breakdown people to delivery it, which they did. So to get a second opinion, get the car put back together and drive carefully to next garage. Or get the next garage to collect from first garage
Tough call, but either way the cynic in me says that the garage could 'sabotage' the parts to ensure they don’t lose credibility.
Do you know how stripped down the car is at the moment? It'll probably be best to pick it up yourself and take it to another garage not telling them about the current diagnosis. That way, you'll get a completely unbias opinion.
Hot Tuscan said:
www.austec.co.uk
To the point of redesigning the majority of components in the head especially the valves.
Would'nt by any chance look similar to the valves TVRCraft designed do they...?!?
Another thought... Valves out of spec, but by how much? One or two thou out ot tolerance or closed right up? Looking at the way work has been trowled for I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't only just outside the tolerance. A compression test (£77 from them) will easily confirm if any valves are leaking. Definitely time for a second opinion to get a balanced picture. It's things like this that contribute to the "Tuscans need regular £5K engine rebuilds" stories.
Realistically a couple of thou on a shim won't make the difference as to whether it jumps ship or not.
Realistically a couple of thou on a shim won't make the difference as to whether it jumps ship or not.
BliarOut said:
Another thought... Valves out of spec, but by how much? One or two thou out ot tolerance or closed right up? Looking at the way work has been trowled for I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't only just outside the tolerance. A compression test (£77 from them) will easily confirm if any valves are leaking. Definitely time for a second opinion to get a balanced picture. It's things like this that contribute to the "Tuscans need regular £5K engine rebuilds" stories.
Realistically a couple of thou on a shim won't make the difference as to whether it jumps ship or not.
‘Hypothetically’ speaking, if you did take it to another (arguably more reputable) garage to get a second opinion, and it transpired that the work that requires doing actually doesn’t, would that not be construed as fraud?
There are a lot of excellent, very honest and passionate about TVR garages out there, when we see stuff like this, is it any wonder the S6 gets slated all the time, when even (seemingly) a minority of garages ‘prey’ on our fears and S6 uncertainty, to make a ‘killing’
Tricky. I don't think it's fraud, it's reporting everything that's outside the service tolerance. It would be equally annoying if they didn't report the valves being tight for example and then one did burn out. But, how far are they out? What's the rate of closure? Can the engine run another twenty thousand miles before they actually burn out? I don't know the answer, but it's entirely possible that the work doesn't need doing right away.
It could be possible to keep an eye on the clearances and wait till a valve does burn out and only then have the head off and bring everything back in spec. The parts aren't expensive, it's the labour to get the head off that costs the money.
It helps to be mechanically aware when you're presented with a list of things that aren't as they were when they left the factory. If I was presented with a potential bill of this size I would want to know what's essential and what's not.
It could be possible to keep an eye on the clearances and wait till a valve does burn out and only then have the head off and bring everything back in spec. The parts aren't expensive, it's the labour to get the head off that costs the money.
It helps to be mechanically aware when you're presented with a list of things that aren't as they were when they left the factory. If I was presented with a potential bill of this size I would want to know what's essential and what's not.
Gassing Station | Tuscan | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff