Have I got a case ?
Discussion
OK bear with me, bought brand new Tuscan 2 Feb 2005 just before 3 year warranty came into place. Bit miffed as I would have waited an extra month to get this, wrote to TVR, explained, they were brilliant and wrote to say they would give me a 2 year extension. Excellent customer service.
Nov 2005 had to move abroad for indefinite period left car with Dealer for 'sale or return' deal. They sold the car about 8 months later but it was returned the following day by customer and the deal called of because: fuel leak, rear windscreen fell out, pod not working etc a whole variety of 'niggles'.I was suprised they let it out in this condition but I said nought ! They emailed me re repairs and I said I would ask TVR if they were covered by warrantee. Called TVR who had no record of my extension, called the Dealer who was in possession of the letter (i had left it for the next owner) who sent it to TVR and they (TVR) agreed to pay all costs for repairs under warranty agreement.
'I have spoken to XXXXXXXXXXX requesting they follow the warranty procedure and forward a warranty claim to me here at the factory for the rectification that was undertaken on your vehicle, which we have now established had a warranty cover agreed'
Result ! Except then I got a mail from the dealer who now longer were associated with TVR :
'I’ve been in contact with TVR (with whom our relationship has ceased) and they advised that a warranty claim would be accepted by them (which is good news for you) but that we would not be paid, only a credit note could be raised which would be offset against other items they have billed us for. Lots of these items are in dispute which means we simply won’t get paid for the work we have done. ' 'They would simply raise a credit note against other items we are in dispute over'
I decided to check with TVR to see if I paid would I get a refund from them, TVR were very clear in their correspondence to me :
'I apologize on behalf of TVR Engineering Blackpool for the difficult situation that you have found yourself in.
To clarify the position XXXXXXXXX are no longer a dealership of TVR Engineering Ltd, however, they are to uphold all services and warranty rectification work on vehicles that they have previously sold that are still within the TVR Manufacturers warranty cover period, therefore you should not have been invoiced for any warranty repairs.'
Seemed pretty clear to me, I had warranty from TVR, dealer had been left in possession of it, work needed to be done, TVR agreed to cover, dealer still to uphold services............should be easy or so I thought.
The work was done, all went quiet, no more emails demanding payment so I assumed they had sorted it with TVR. Then dealer suggested since they were no longer dealing with TVR I move the car to someone else (TVR dealer)to get a quicker sale. I agreed BUT..............they refused to let the car be collected until I pay for the warranty work which they say I am still liable for ! (I am still abroad so cant personally do anything.)
My reading of the situation is that despite me being in possession of a valid warranty (which the dealer was aware of), they were in dispute with TVR over other items and TVR would not pay them hence they tried to offset this onto me.
I have got legal advice which seems to suggest I have a rock solid case but it might cost me more than the owed amount to pursue it as the dealer is arguing that because I authorised the repairs I am liable for the costs. My line is that I did authorise the repairs and if indeed there had been any problem with my warrantee I would have paid and taken it up with TVR myself. The reality is there was no problem and the dealer should have gone through the usual channels with TVR.
I think I am getting stitched up by a dealer who knows that it will be difficult and costly for me to settle this in my favour from abroad.
Any legal boffins to give advice ?
I am reluctant to let this go, I think this is awful behaviour from a car dealer.How can I be liable for warrantee work in view of the correspondence from TVR ?
Cheers
Nov 2005 had to move abroad for indefinite period left car with Dealer for 'sale or return' deal. They sold the car about 8 months later but it was returned the following day by customer and the deal called of because: fuel leak, rear windscreen fell out, pod not working etc a whole variety of 'niggles'.I was suprised they let it out in this condition but I said nought ! They emailed me re repairs and I said I would ask TVR if they were covered by warrantee. Called TVR who had no record of my extension, called the Dealer who was in possession of the letter (i had left it for the next owner) who sent it to TVR and they (TVR) agreed to pay all costs for repairs under warranty agreement.
'I have spoken to XXXXXXXXXXX requesting they follow the warranty procedure and forward a warranty claim to me here at the factory for the rectification that was undertaken on your vehicle, which we have now established had a warranty cover agreed'
Result ! Except then I got a mail from the dealer who now longer were associated with TVR :
'I’ve been in contact with TVR (with whom our relationship has ceased) and they advised that a warranty claim would be accepted by them (which is good news for you) but that we would not be paid, only a credit note could be raised which would be offset against other items they have billed us for. Lots of these items are in dispute which means we simply won’t get paid for the work we have done. ' 'They would simply raise a credit note against other items we are in dispute over'
I decided to check with TVR to see if I paid would I get a refund from them, TVR were very clear in their correspondence to me :
'I apologize on behalf of TVR Engineering Blackpool for the difficult situation that you have found yourself in.
To clarify the position XXXXXXXXX are no longer a dealership of TVR Engineering Ltd, however, they are to uphold all services and warranty rectification work on vehicles that they have previously sold that are still within the TVR Manufacturers warranty cover period, therefore you should not have been invoiced for any warranty repairs.'
Seemed pretty clear to me, I had warranty from TVR, dealer had been left in possession of it, work needed to be done, TVR agreed to cover, dealer still to uphold services............should be easy or so I thought.
The work was done, all went quiet, no more emails demanding payment so I assumed they had sorted it with TVR. Then dealer suggested since they were no longer dealing with TVR I move the car to someone else (TVR dealer)to get a quicker sale. I agreed BUT..............they refused to let the car be collected until I pay for the warranty work which they say I am still liable for ! (I am still abroad so cant personally do anything.)
My reading of the situation is that despite me being in possession of a valid warranty (which the dealer was aware of), they were in dispute with TVR over other items and TVR would not pay them hence they tried to offset this onto me.
I have got legal advice which seems to suggest I have a rock solid case but it might cost me more than the owed amount to pursue it as the dealer is arguing that because I authorised the repairs I am liable for the costs. My line is that I did authorise the repairs and if indeed there had been any problem with my warrantee I would have paid and taken it up with TVR myself. The reality is there was no problem and the dealer should have gone through the usual channels with TVR.
I think I am getting stitched up by a dealer who knows that it will be difficult and costly for me to settle this in my favour from abroad.
Any legal boffins to give advice ?
I am reluctant to let this go, I think this is awful behaviour from a car dealer.How can I be liable for warrantee work in view of the correspondence from TVR ?
Cheers
mhg said:
This might not be feasible if you're abroad but the small claims court might be a possibility - I think the limit for claims is 4k (would this cover the warranty work) - only costs about £70 I think and you can represent yourself.
Mark
You can actually issue proceedings online for small claims track, so you might be able to sort it out whilst abraod. Mark
I do think you are getting ar8ed by the dealer.
Good luck.
No you do not have a case! Where have you been for the last year?? TVR are out of business! How can you enforce a warranty against a company that does not exist?
Your warranty came from TVR, not from the dealer from whom you bought the car or from a 3rd party warranty company. You admit that in your post.
Therefore your claim under the warranty is against TVR and not against the dealer and as I have said, TVR no longer exist.
You could have claimed against your dealer in respect of the faults under the Sale of Goods Act on the basis that they were not of satisfactory quality and not fit for their pupose if you had made that claim back in 2005.
However as you admit, the faults are just "niggles" (your word) and the car is now 2.5 years old and the Court are likely to reject your claim.
In the "Small Claims Court" (i.e. for claims for £5,000.00 and under, win or lose you pay your own costs, so if you employ a solicitor you will not get his costs back from the dealer if you lose, so you are likely to be out of pocket.
Your warranty came from TVR, not from the dealer from whom you bought the car or from a 3rd party warranty company. You admit that in your post.
Therefore your claim under the warranty is against TVR and not against the dealer and as I have said, TVR no longer exist.
You could have claimed against your dealer in respect of the faults under the Sale of Goods Act on the basis that they were not of satisfactory quality and not fit for their pupose if you had made that claim back in 2005.
However as you admit, the faults are just "niggles" (your word) and the car is now 2.5 years old and the Court are likely to reject your claim.
In the "Small Claims Court" (i.e. for claims for £5,000.00 and under, win or lose you pay your own costs, so if you employ a solicitor you will not get his costs back from the dealer if you lose, so you are likely to be out of pocket.
Yes I see your point Red..however, the fact remains this was going on BEFORE TVR went under, if the dealer had dealt with it at the time as TVR stated it would have been sorted, the delay until now is only a result of the Dealer...........so, at that time, TVR told the dealer they would accept the claim and they (the dealer) should follow the usual process. It is 12 months after in this on-going saga that TVR went down............so the point is the same, in 2006 when TVR was viable, I had a warrantee on my car acknowledged by TVR.......the delay was only because the dealer was trying to offset their other disputes with TVR onto me, knowing they would be relinquishing the dealership.
If you (when TVR existed), had TVR saying to you, 'yes we will pay for the repairs under warrantee' , and the dealer was saying 'oh no, please cant you pay personally because we are in dispute with TVR and they will use this against us (the dealer) and only raise a credit slip' and when you asked TVR if this was OK they said 'no way mate, we have contacted the dealer and told them how to handle this, they must follow our usual procedure and we will not re-emburse you '...............what would you have done ?
If you (when TVR existed), had TVR saying to you, 'yes we will pay for the repairs under warrantee' , and the dealer was saying 'oh no, please cant you pay personally because we are in dispute with TVR and they will use this against us (the dealer) and only raise a credit slip' and when you asked TVR if this was OK they said 'no way mate, we have contacted the dealer and told them how to handle this, they must follow our usual procedure and we will not re-emburse you '...............what would you have done ?
Yes, but none of what you have said changes anything.
Back in 2005 you had two choices:
1. Invoke the warranty from TVR. If the dealer that you had been using was unwilling to carry out the warranty work, then you should have gone to another franchised TVR dealer to have the work carried out.
2. Pursue the dealer from whom you bought the car under the Sale of Goods Act as the car was not of satisfactory quality.
As I have already said you cannot now pursue 1 as TVR do not exist. You cannot pursue 2 because you are too late.
You are confusing the two issues.
You cannot go to Court and complain about the dealer not carrying out the warranty work because that is between you and TVR and not you and the dealer.
Back in 2005 you had two choices:
1. Invoke the warranty from TVR. If the dealer that you had been using was unwilling to carry out the warranty work, then you should have gone to another franchised TVR dealer to have the work carried out.
2. Pursue the dealer from whom you bought the car under the Sale of Goods Act as the car was not of satisfactory quality.
As I have already said you cannot now pursue 1 as TVR do not exist. You cannot pursue 2 because you are too late.
You are confusing the two issues.
You cannot go to Court and complain about the dealer not carrying out the warranty work because that is between you and TVR and not you and the dealer.
I'm not sure I follow RedTuscan's reasoning for saying you are too late to bring a claim under the Sales of Goods Act against the garage? You have 6 years from the date of purchase to bring a claim. I assume you purchased the car from the dealer that carried out the repairs - your claim would therefore be against the dealer not TVR Engineering. It is a matter for evidence whether your car, when sold, was of satisfactory quality - at first blush it would appear not.
I am also a little intrigued as to the terms upon which the "sale and return" arrangement with the garage was concluded. If the car was sold by the garage on your behalf (i.e. they were acting as your agent) and that was made plain to the purchaser, then arguably the contract was concluded between consumers. Assuming that to be the case, and assuming you/the garage made no representations to the purchaser concerning the condition of the vehicle, then one might argue the purchaser had no basis (in law) to reject the goods (caveat emptor as I'm sure you've head of). Nevertheless the purchaser did reject the goods and the garage seems to have accepted that rejection on your behalf. My question to you is, did you agree or otherwise authorise the garage to take back receipt of the car and return the purchaser his/her money? If not, they you might have an alternative claim against the garage either for breach of contract or tort.
As already mentioned, if your claim is less than £5k then it will be treated as a "small" claim and costs are not then generally awarded to the successful party. It may be worth asking a solicitor to review your claim in detail - some firms are willing to give you 30 mins of their time FOC (ensure you agree this in advance) and simply ask them to draft a letter for you to the garage (whether in your name or from the solicitor). You can then decide (depending on the garage's response) how to proceed.
I am also a little intrigued as to the terms upon which the "sale and return" arrangement with the garage was concluded. If the car was sold by the garage on your behalf (i.e. they were acting as your agent) and that was made plain to the purchaser, then arguably the contract was concluded between consumers. Assuming that to be the case, and assuming you/the garage made no representations to the purchaser concerning the condition of the vehicle, then one might argue the purchaser had no basis (in law) to reject the goods (caveat emptor as I'm sure you've head of). Nevertheless the purchaser did reject the goods and the garage seems to have accepted that rejection on your behalf. My question to you is, did you agree or otherwise authorise the garage to take back receipt of the car and return the purchaser his/her money? If not, they you might have an alternative claim against the garage either for breach of contract or tort.
As already mentioned, if your claim is less than £5k then it will be treated as a "small" claim and costs are not then generally awarded to the successful party. It may be worth asking a solicitor to review your claim in detail - some firms are willing to give you 30 mins of their time FOC (ensure you agree this in advance) and simply ask them to draft a letter for you to the garage (whether in your name or from the solicitor). You can then decide (depending on the garage's response) how to proceed.
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