Urgent Oil Question
Discussion
I have just bought an S6 Cerbera with a newish engine in (aparently same as tuscan, i dont know the difference as im new to TVR ownership) anywhoo the engine has done 6k miles since being installed, what grade oil should be used, my handbook says to use 0W 40, but my local TVR dealer says to use 15W 50.
So im
and dont know which is best, any advice would be very much appreciated as im worried the wrong oil could do some damage to the engine.
So im
and dont know which is best, any advice would be very much appreciated as im worried the wrong oil could do some damage to the engine.Edited by WorAl on Tuesday 2nd September 08:20
Oil. Its a topic that divides opinion.
My own two cents is that 0W 40 is too thin at high temps. The S6 has well known oil starvation problems and oil pressure is really important in preventing wear in the finger followers. For this reason i use a top quality semi-synthetic which helps keep the oil pressure up, particularly at high temps.
Its just my opinion though.
My own two cents is that 0W 40 is too thin at high temps. The S6 has well known oil starvation problems and oil pressure is really important in preventing wear in the finger followers. For this reason i use a top quality semi-synthetic which helps keep the oil pressure up, particularly at high temps.
Its just my opinion though.
This is consolidated from what most PH Tuscaneers say:
Which oil do I use and how often should I check it?
The oil level should be checked at least once a week. Many owners use 5W/40 or 10W/40 after the 6,000 mile service. The average oil consumption seems to be around 1 litre per 1,500 miles for the TVR Speed Six engine, although many owners report using hardly any in between services. Some people have found that using Mobil1 0/40 is too thin and gets used up too quickly.
What should the normal oil pressure be?
When the engine is warm (above 60°C), the oil pressure should be around 9-12PSI at idle and 25-35PSI at 2,000 RPM. This will vary depending on the engine, type of oil being used and accuracy of oil pressure gauge.
I am personally happy with branded fully synthetic 5W 40 - consumption is about 1,5l/1000miles.
Which oil do I use and how often should I check it?
The oil level should be checked at least once a week. Many owners use 5W/40 or 10W/40 after the 6,000 mile service. The average oil consumption seems to be around 1 litre per 1,500 miles for the TVR Speed Six engine, although many owners report using hardly any in between services. Some people have found that using Mobil1 0/40 is too thin and gets used up too quickly.
What should the normal oil pressure be?
When the engine is warm (above 60°C), the oil pressure should be around 9-12PSI at idle and 25-35PSI at 2,000 RPM. This will vary depending on the engine, type of oil being used and accuracy of oil pressure gauge.
I am personally happy with branded fully synthetic 5W 40 - consumption is about 1,5l/1000miles.
I use Castrol Magnatec now that my engine has covered more than 25,000 miles and get 12-16 psi when oil temp (90c) at hottest at 800 idle. I check mine at least every other (short) trip.
Still get very variable "oil use" when checking the oil level hot. It seems to depend on how fast you can get to it and how long the engine has idled before you do? I always raise the small bonnet before switching off and run round to undo the disptick.
Surely you must be able to check the oil level cold? I mean there must be a tank somewhere and as long as it has enough oil in it,then that must be OK?
Measured when cold the dipstick has about 20mm of oil on it? My understanding is that when you over fill it the system will just push the oil out, which then gives you the perception of high oil use?
Still get very variable "oil use" when checking the oil level hot. It seems to depend on how fast you can get to it and how long the engine has idled before you do? I always raise the small bonnet before switching off and run round to undo the disptick.
Surely you must be able to check the oil level cold? I mean there must be a tank somewhere and as long as it has enough oil in it,then that must be OK?
Measured when cold the dipstick has about 20mm of oil on it? My understanding is that when you over fill it the system will just push the oil out, which then gives you the perception of high oil use?
Fully agree it's a real challenge to measure the oil level correctly, meaning at always equal conditions/parametres. Some drivers I spoke to have thus moved to measuring the level when cold. They report it should be approx. 1/2-inch (10 to 15mm) of oil covering the measuring blade, when the measuring device is loosely layed on (not wound in fix).
Good question... ! My Tuscan's dipstick actually remains fully dry when measuring cold (though I am sure there is enough Oil inside). When measuring hot, the dipstick is mostly spoiled/covered with oil all over, but no (or rarely) clear mark....
So I'd conclude that either
a) There are different (in length) dipsticks
or
b) The 10 - 15mm are measured from the bottom of the tank (i.e. by using an ordinary wooden measure stick)
Anybody knows for sure ?
So I'd conclude that either
a) There are different (in length) dipsticks
or
b) The 10 - 15mm are measured from the bottom of the tank (i.e. by using an ordinary wooden measure stick)
Anybody knows for sure ?
I agree it is a bit of a pain checking the level when hot. On mine I started checking the oil when cold (before setting off) and when hot (on the same journey). I did this several times and always found there to be about an inch difference between the cold and hot levels. So basically if I check it when cold and its about half way between min and max then it will be at max when hot. Might not be the same on all cars though.
The S6 is a dry sump engine. There is NO oil sump.
Now i'm no mechanical genius but my understanding is that there is an oil reservoir from which oil is pumped into the cylinder block. When you switch off the oil returns to the reservoir.
The dipstick is a measure of the oil in the engine, and not the oil in the reservoir.
This is why you have to check when the engine is hot, coz thats when the oil is in the block.
As soon as she cools the oil will have returned to the reservoir.
I'm not expressing this very well, but there will always be less oil on the dipstick when cold, but checking when cold gives you no indication of how much is in the reservoir. In fact, checking when cold should give the same reading every time regardless of how much oil is in the reservoir.
Oil in an S6 should always be checked when hot, as per TVR's recommendation and instructions.
Now i'm no mechanical genius but my understanding is that there is an oil reservoir from which oil is pumped into the cylinder block. When you switch off the oil returns to the reservoir.
The dipstick is a measure of the oil in the engine, and not the oil in the reservoir.
This is why you have to check when the engine is hot, coz thats when the oil is in the block.
As soon as she cools the oil will have returned to the reservoir.
I'm not expressing this very well, but there will always be less oil on the dipstick when cold, but checking when cold gives you no indication of how much is in the reservoir. In fact, checking when cold should give the same reading every time regardless of how much oil is in the reservoir.
Oil in an S6 should always be checked when hot, as per TVR's recommendation and instructions.
Edited by Tuska on Friday 5th September 11:23
hi Tuska,
I understand what you are saying completely and you are right, of course.
The sump in a wet sump engine is the resevoir. On a dry sump engine the resevoir is simply moved somewhere else, usually to avoid oil surge when cornering/braking etc.
The oil pump and oilways in the block can only contain a finite amount of oil and therefore when the engine is hot and the pump and oilways full, then the level in the resevoir will drop a finite amount?
Our theory is that this should be a constant amount as long as the engine does not use oil or have a leak. As long as the resevoir has enough oil in it to keep the oil pump and block oilways full and some extra, then it should be OK to measure the level when cold, once we have discovered the difference between hot and cold levels.
In normal operation checking it cold when the water is checked will provide an fairly accurate guideline, because if the engine is using a significant amount of oil the level in the resevoir will still drop from the "cold" point noted previously and can subsequently be topped back up to that level, therefore replacing the oil that has been used?
I understand what you are saying completely and you are right, of course.
The sump in a wet sump engine is the resevoir. On a dry sump engine the resevoir is simply moved somewhere else, usually to avoid oil surge when cornering/braking etc.
The oil pump and oilways in the block can only contain a finite amount of oil and therefore when the engine is hot and the pump and oilways full, then the level in the resevoir will drop a finite amount?
Our theory is that this should be a constant amount as long as the engine does not use oil or have a leak. As long as the resevoir has enough oil in it to keep the oil pump and block oilways full and some extra, then it should be OK to measure the level when cold, once we have discovered the difference between hot and cold levels.
In normal operation checking it cold when the water is checked will provide an fairly accurate guideline, because if the engine is using a significant amount of oil the level in the resevoir will still drop from the "cold" point noted previously and can subsequently be topped back up to that level, therefore replacing the oil that has been used?
Changing the subject back slightly to the type of oil.
I have always put Mobil 0w 40 in because that is what the book says. Dom services it and has never told me any different. Therefore the question is - is there a problem if different oils get mixed ? I don't seem to have a pressure problem, although I have never checked it within the temp ranges that were suggested earlier.
For what it's worth, I tend to check my oli levels when hot and as long as the clean stick, when redipped, comes out anywhere within the min max lines I don't worry.
I have always put Mobil 0w 40 in because that is what the book says. Dom services it and has never told me any different. Therefore the question is - is there a problem if different oils get mixed ? I don't seem to have a pressure problem, although I have never checked it within the temp ranges that were suggested earlier.
For what it's worth, I tend to check my oli levels when hot and as long as the clean stick, when redipped, comes out anywhere within the min max lines I don't worry.
I think it is generally considered good practice to use the same oil to top up with as you used when the oil was changed. Personally I would never mix oil type, so if you have fully synthetic in then always top up with fully synthetic.
As for the viscosity, I think the general opinion is 0-40 is Ok for a new engine, but that as engines wear they need a thicker oil. I use a 10-40 semi synthetic, now my engine is 8 years old and over the 25K mark.
As for the viscosity, I think the general opinion is 0-40 is Ok for a new engine, but that as engines wear they need a thicker oil. I use a 10-40 semi synthetic, now my engine is 8 years old and over the 25K mark.
Chequred Demon said:
hi Tuska,
I understand what you are saying completely and you are right, of course.
The sump in a wet sump engine is the resevoir. On a dry sump engine the resevoir is simply moved somewhere else, usually to avoid oil surge when cornering/braking etc.
The oil pump and oilways in the block can only contain a finite amount of oil and therefore when the engine is hot and the pump and oilways full, then the level in the resevoir will drop a finite amount?
Our theory is that this should be a constant amount as long as the engine does not use oil or have a leak. As long as the resevoir has enough oil in it to keep the oil pump and block oilways full and some extra, then it should be OK to measure the level when cold, once we have discovered the difference between hot and cold levels.
In normal operation checking it cold when the water is checked will provide an fairly accurate guideline, because if the engine is using a significant amount of oil the level in the resevoir will still drop from the "cold" point noted previously and can subsequently be topped back up to that level, therefore replacing the oil that has been used?
Hi CD. I think my point is that you are not checking the level within the reservoir. The dipstick is only a measure of the oil within the engine.I understand what you are saying completely and you are right, of course.
The sump in a wet sump engine is the resevoir. On a dry sump engine the resevoir is simply moved somewhere else, usually to avoid oil surge when cornering/braking etc.
The oil pump and oilways in the block can only contain a finite amount of oil and therefore when the engine is hot and the pump and oilways full, then the level in the resevoir will drop a finite amount?
Our theory is that this should be a constant amount as long as the engine does not use oil or have a leak. As long as the resevoir has enough oil in it to keep the oil pump and block oilways full and some extra, then it should be OK to measure the level when cold, once we have discovered the difference between hot and cold levels.
In normal operation checking it cold when the water is checked will provide an fairly accurate guideline, because if the engine is using a significant amount of oil the level in the resevoir will still drop from the "cold" point noted previously and can subsequently be topped back up to that level, therefore replacing the oil that has been used?
If you check when cold then you are dipping the oil that has not returned to the reservoir. When cold this should always be a low/minnimum level. The trouble is that you cannot possibly know if there is any oil in the reservoir to be pumped into the engine when you start her up.
For this reason you must, i believe, check the level when hot so you can see that enough oil HAS been pumped into the engine. Badly worded explanation again, but i hope you take the point.....
stillgrinning said:
Changing the subject back slightly to the type of oil.
I have always put Mobil 0w 40 in because that is what the book says. Dom services it and has never told me any different. Therefore the question is - is there a problem if different oils get mixed ? I don't seem to have a pressure problem, although I have never checked it within the temp ranges that were suggested earlier.
This is the division in opinion. TVR Power will always tend to go with the 'book' recommendations. However, many race teams such as TopCats at Aylesbury (who service my Tusc) say they experience oil pressure problems at high temps when using Mobil 1. Hence they use a quality semi-synthetic.I have always put Mobil 0w 40 in because that is what the book says. Dom services it and has never told me any different. Therefore the question is - is there a problem if different oils get mixed ? I don't seem to have a pressure problem, although I have never checked it within the temp ranges that were suggested earlier.
You pays your money, you makes your choice. I dont really think there is a right and a wrong.....
Here is another observation I recently made:
After the oil warning lamp started flickering at higher rpm (this is the latest point you should re-fill, right), I gave her 1/2 a liter of oil (all what I had left in the back). => As a result, the oil pressure went up to normal PSI values.
When I came home, I then gave her another full liter of oil (so 1,5 l from the first "oil alert lamp" flash) because I couldn't detect any mark on the dipstick once again, despite oil temp was 72°C and even after having given her 1,5 liter in total! => As a result, oil pressure went up to 20PSI at idle and up to 50PSI at 4000rpm ! After about 1/2 hour of driving again, the pressure levels came down to "normal" again.
Conclusion: I think I over-filled her and she "spied" out what was too much?
Leading to the question: How much oil to feed her from the point when the oil lamp lights up for the first time ?
After the oil warning lamp started flickering at higher rpm (this is the latest point you should re-fill, right), I gave her 1/2 a liter of oil (all what I had left in the back). => As a result, the oil pressure went up to normal PSI values.
When I came home, I then gave her another full liter of oil (so 1,5 l from the first "oil alert lamp" flash) because I couldn't detect any mark on the dipstick once again, despite oil temp was 72°C and even after having given her 1,5 liter in total! => As a result, oil pressure went up to 20PSI at idle and up to 50PSI at 4000rpm ! After about 1/2 hour of driving again, the pressure levels came down to "normal" again.
Conclusion: I think I over-filled her and she "spied" out what was too much?
Leading to the question: How much oil to feed her from the point when the oil lamp lights up for the first time ?
Hi Tuska,
I understand your logic and agree with you 100%.
My point is that if the dipstick is in effect measuring engine oil and not the resevoir oil, then it doesn't matter if you measure hot or cold, you still don't know how much oil is left in the resevoir? e.g. There may be exactly enough oil to fill the pump and block oilways and provide a high level on the dipstick, but not 1ml more left in the resevoir when you measure it hot? Once you have measured the difference between hot and cold you could just as "accurately" measure it cold?
The problem with the current method is that hot 0-40 oil at 10-psi will drain out of the block like water and therfore we all get horribly inconsistent readings. Doing 5 laps round Snetterton, pitting and following as near as possible the same oil-checking procedure each time, gave me oil level readings ranging from bottom of stick (yup, i shat myself!) to top of threads, between each pit!
Ideally the dipstick should measure the resevoir level, not the block level? I can only presume that caused a problem for TVR with the positioning of the dipstick with a bolted down bonnet???
Quite happy to be shot down in flames, I just want to get more relaible oil level readings, because at £10 per litre I could do without throwing the stuff away and I would sleep better at night knowing my engine is not about to grenade, because it may (or may not) be using huge amounts of oil!
I understand your logic and agree with you 100%.
My point is that if the dipstick is in effect measuring engine oil and not the resevoir oil, then it doesn't matter if you measure hot or cold, you still don't know how much oil is left in the resevoir? e.g. There may be exactly enough oil to fill the pump and block oilways and provide a high level on the dipstick, but not 1ml more left in the resevoir when you measure it hot? Once you have measured the difference between hot and cold you could just as "accurately" measure it cold?
The problem with the current method is that hot 0-40 oil at 10-psi will drain out of the block like water and therfore we all get horribly inconsistent readings. Doing 5 laps round Snetterton, pitting and following as near as possible the same oil-checking procedure each time, gave me oil level readings ranging from bottom of stick (yup, i shat myself!) to top of threads, between each pit!
Ideally the dipstick should measure the resevoir level, not the block level? I can only presume that caused a problem for TVR with the positioning of the dipstick with a bolted down bonnet???
Quite happy to be shot down in flames, I just want to get more relaible oil level readings, because at £10 per litre I could do without throwing the stuff away and I would sleep better at night knowing my engine is not about to grenade, because it may (or may not) be using huge amounts of oil!
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