Heater exchange unit box removal - any tips?
Discussion
Hi all,
Right, I have finally got around to having a crack at getting the black cover removed from the heater gubbins under the main bonnet and need some advice, if possible.
I have removed the wipers/scuttle and 4 screws on each corner of the black box/cover thingy (the one closest to the engine, not the far near-side box, right?). I have taken off the water feed pipes but I cannot get the cover to come out from the bulkhead at all. It moves about but just wont come out. Also, the inlet manifold to the air-con box/cover thingy is in danger of fouling on the heater box/cover when I try to pull it away from the manifold.
Has anyone done this on a car with air-con? Does the cover just take brute force to pull it away from the bulkhead and should I be considering removing the metal pipes going into the AC unit or should I be able to pull out the black cover at an angle to avoid the AC piping?
Thanks in advance, if I can't get this sorted today I'll have to take it to my friendly local indy.....
Andy
Right, I have finally got around to having a crack at getting the black cover removed from the heater gubbins under the main bonnet and need some advice, if possible.
I have removed the wipers/scuttle and 4 screws on each corner of the black box/cover thingy (the one closest to the engine, not the far near-side box, right?). I have taken off the water feed pipes but I cannot get the cover to come out from the bulkhead at all. It moves about but just wont come out. Also, the inlet manifold to the air-con box/cover thingy is in danger of fouling on the heater box/cover when I try to pull it away from the manifold.
Has anyone done this on a car with air-con? Does the cover just take brute force to pull it away from the bulkhead and should I be considering removing the metal pipes going into the AC unit or should I be able to pull out the black cover at an angle to avoid the AC piping?
Thanks in advance, if I can't get this sorted today I'll have to take it to my friendly local indy.....
Andy
Update - got it off in the end, brute force and ignorance 
(actually, I spoke with Martin at RG who gave me the info I needed to be confident in pulling it out - thoroughly decent chap...
)
All I need to do now is fit the new motor when it arrives....I'll leave the flap open for now so I have some warm air at least whilst I'm waiting)
Andy
(actually, I spoke with Martin at RG who gave me the info I needed to be confident in pulling it out - thoroughly decent chap...)All I need to do now is fit the new motor when it arrives....I'll leave the flap open for now so I have some warm air at least whilst I'm waiting)
Andy
Ha! Ok, I'll take some pics when I do it again either tomorrow or Weds (I put it all back together again today as I need to use the car tomorrow) once I get the replacement motor. I had to pull the cover up and over at an angle to get it out past the AC pipe manifold - took quite a bit of force to make it let go of the pipe it was joined to through the bulkhead/dash area but there was nothing to damage by doing so and the depth the cover protruded into the bulkhead was not very much.
Update to follow...
Andy
Update to follow...
Andy
Ok, job done, I have heat again! The guys at RG kindly sent me a replacement stepper motor that they had wired up correctly to a new 6-pin connector so all I had to do was plug it in once it was fitted and it worked fine (sorry - just realised I didn't take a note of the wire-list...doh....RG can help anyone who needs to know though I'd imagine).
Getting the exchanger box out was easier this time as I had already "broke" the seal the other day when I had it out. Same procedure - remove bonnet, remove wipers and remove the near-side top bonnet clip to allow the scuttle room to come out. Undo the 4 screws holding the exchanger unit down, remove the inlet/outlet pipes (it might be possible to keep these connected but I needed the room) and lift the box up and over towards the engine to lever it out of the bulkhead. I lost about half a pint of fluid.
The old motor and linkage can be seen below along with the grub screw that didn't want to shift.....some WD40 and a little time and brute force got it out in the end although the whole motor assembly fell apart once it did come out!
As you can also just about see from the top pic, the motor is fixed to the mounting plate using rivets - I nipped and pushed these out but didn't have any bolts or nuts to use so I "modified" a connector block (screw-down type) to use the screws and threaded housing to fix the new motor to the bracket - worked a treat
The grub screw locates on a flat on the output shaft from the stepper's gearbox so that's a little fiddly getting it in the right position with the heater dial but it's pretty straight forward with a little experimentation.
One thing I did discover was that the total travel of the stepper's output shaft was way more than the flap/linkage needed - this results in the stepper fighting against a locked linkage at either end of its travel - probably why so many of these units fail over time.....
What I figured was that the temp dial in the cabin only actually needs to be moved from almost fully hot back to the first red LED for the flap to go through its complete movement from open to closed. Move the dial onto the blue LED's and you are only pushing the stepper against the closed flap's linkage. This prevents the motor overloading the gearbox although I believe that the stepper goes through a complete cycle anyway upon first switching on the ignition. An ideal solution would be to swap for a stepper or gearbox that gives less travel on the output shaft - or modify the flap linkage.
Anyway, it's working now and I'll just have to bear in mind that I don't need to flick the dial all the way to cold to close the flap!
Hope this is of some use to somebody,
Andy
Getting the exchanger box out was easier this time as I had already "broke" the seal the other day when I had it out. Same procedure - remove bonnet, remove wipers and remove the near-side top bonnet clip to allow the scuttle room to come out. Undo the 4 screws holding the exchanger unit down, remove the inlet/outlet pipes (it might be possible to keep these connected but I needed the room) and lift the box up and over towards the engine to lever it out of the bulkhead. I lost about half a pint of fluid.
The old motor and linkage can be seen below along with the grub screw that didn't want to shift.....some WD40 and a little time and brute force got it out in the end although the whole motor assembly fell apart once it did come out!
As you can also just about see from the top pic, the motor is fixed to the mounting plate using rivets - I nipped and pushed these out but didn't have any bolts or nuts to use so I "modified" a connector block (screw-down type) to use the screws and threaded housing to fix the new motor to the bracket - worked a treat
The grub screw locates on a flat on the output shaft from the stepper's gearbox so that's a little fiddly getting it in the right position with the heater dial but it's pretty straight forward with a little experimentation.
One thing I did discover was that the total travel of the stepper's output shaft was way more than the flap/linkage needed - this results in the stepper fighting against a locked linkage at either end of its travel - probably why so many of these units fail over time.....
What I figured was that the temp dial in the cabin only actually needs to be moved from almost fully hot back to the first red LED for the flap to go through its complete movement from open to closed. Move the dial onto the blue LED's and you are only pushing the stepper against the closed flap's linkage. This prevents the motor overloading the gearbox although I believe that the stepper goes through a complete cycle anyway upon first switching on the ignition. An ideal solution would be to swap for a stepper or gearbox that gives less travel on the output shaft - or modify the flap linkage.
Anyway, it's working now and I'll just have to bear in mind that I don't need to flick the dial all the way to cold to close the flap!
Hope this is of some use to somebody,
Andy
Cheers
Footnote - it is possible to remove the 2 hex-head bolts holding the bracket in place - I tried and could get one out but not the other as it was simply to much of a pita to get to. I think they are screwed into captive nuts in the base though so (as long as they don't strip or rotate) it should be an alternative option than cutting the rivets out - if you have the right tools......
Andy
Footnote - it is possible to remove the 2 hex-head bolts holding the bracket in place - I tried and could get one out but not the other as it was simply to much of a pita to get to. I think they are screwed into captive nuts in the base though so (as long as they don't strip or rotate) it should be an alternative option than cutting the rivets out - if you have the right tools......
Andy
I was readin this cos I need to do the same on mine, but got a bit concerned when I read this line....
ANDYOLEARY said
"... and lift the box up and over towards the engine to lever it out of the bulkhead. I lost about half a pint of fluid."
I hope your a big bloke, cos I would die of dehydration if I lost that much
ANDYOLEARY said
"... and lift the box up and over towards the engine to lever it out of the bulkhead. I lost about half a pint of fluid."
I hope your a big bloke, cos I would die of dehydration if I lost that muchbsod said:
I was readin this cos I need to do the same on mine, but got a bit concerned when I read this line....
ANDYOLEARY said
"... and lift the box up and over towards the engine to lever it out of the bulkhead. I lost about half a pint of fluid."
I hope your a big bloke, cos I would die of dehydration if I lost that much
ANDYOLEARY said
"... and lift the box up and over towards the engine to lever it out of the bulkhead. I lost about half a pint of fluid."
I hope your a big bloke, cos I would die of dehydration if I lost that muchWhitey said:
Hi Andy, the aircon pipework is the main thing putting me off doing it. I know's thats going to be the hassle factor. But I'm sure all will be fine when I get around to doing it!
cheers
Whitey
Get it sorted mate, I couldn't bear it when my heater wasn't working - need the warm air blasting in when the roof is off! Those AC pipes are pretty sturdy and can easily be avoided if the inlet/outlet pipes to the heater box are loosened and pushed out of the way. It's only a half-hour job - I'll pop round and give you a hand if you want cheers
Whitey
Andy
HELLO ALL IVE JUST BROUGHT MY WIFE A 2001 TUSCAN SORRY TO SAY SHES SCARED OF DRIVING IT SO I DECIDED THAT THE ONLY HONOURABLE THING TO DO WAS DRIVE IT MYSELF FIRSTLY THE WIPER FEED TUBE BROKE THERES NO HOT AIR FOR THE HEATERS
THE LINCAGE ON THE REVS BROKE THE FRONT DOOR OPENER WILL NOT OPEN THE DOOR.
I HAVE TO USE LEFT SIDE AND LEAN IN AND PRESS THE INSIDE DOOR OPENER THE BONNET FASTENERS ARE BENT SORRY WERE BENT AND I BANG MY HEAD WHEN I GET IN THE CAR. THERES ALSO AN EFI WARNING LIGHT THAT COMES ON WHEN EVER IT WANTS
I AM TOLD ITS A BURNER OR SOMTHING IN THE EXHAUST AND THE DISPLAYS SCARE ME TO DEATH I BROUGHT THE CAR IN SEVEN OAKS AND DROVE IT BACK ON A SUNDAY
A JOURNEY THAT SHOULD TAKE 3.5 HOURS 6 HOURS LATTER I RETURNED TO THE HOME OF MY FATHERS IN SUNNY STOKE. OH THE REASON IT TOOK SO LONG WAS THAT I WAS TOLD HORROR STORYS ABOUT DRIVING IN THE RAIN
ANY HOW MY WIFE HAD A , 3 YEAR OLD MERC CONVETIBLE LOVELY CAR AND I TALKED HER INTO SWOPPING IT FOT THE TUSCAN
GOD WAS I RIGHT ITS GREAT FANTASTIC IVE NOT HAD TO DRIVE PROPERLY SINCE THE LATE SEVENTIES , MORE PEOPLE HAVE STOPPED ME AND ASKED ABOUT THE CAR THAN I CAN COUNT FROM OLD UNS TO HOODIES, MY CONCLUSION IS THIS
ASK ME TO SWOP MY, SORRY MY WIFES TVR FOR ANY CAR ON THE ROAD TODAY AND AS WE POTTERS SAY ?"!^*)<.? YOURS BRING ON THE FAULTS BRING ON THE RAIN SNOW
SLEET OR SUN BRING ON THE BRUISES AND BUMPS ON THE OLD NOGGIN
I LOVVVVVVVVVE THIS CAR MY ONLY WORRY IS THAT AS IM GETTING AGEDED I MAY HAVE TO INVEST IN A STENNA CHAIR LIFT TO GET ME IN IT, AND A ROPE AND A WILLING RUGBY TEAM TO PULL ME OUT. SO BE IF ITS THE PRICE I HAVE TO PAY THEN MEET ME AT THE POST OFFICE WHEN I CASH IN ME PENSION BUT YOU AINT HAVING ME TUSCAN
PS IS IT GAY OR POLITICALY CORRECT TO SAY THAT IM GOING TO WORK IN A TREV
THATS MY ONLY TRUE COMPLAINT MY LAST WORD THANK GOODNESS IS
IM PUTTING THE FAULTS RIGHT MYSELF ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR RESPONSE OH YES IM THINKING ABOUT PUTTING SEALANT AROUND THE WIPER SECTION WHEN I FIT IT AGAIN IS THIS OK
ALL THE BEST
IVAN
THE LINCAGE ON THE REVS BROKE THE FRONT DOOR OPENER WILL NOT OPEN THE DOOR.
I HAVE TO USE LEFT SIDE AND LEAN IN AND PRESS THE INSIDE DOOR OPENER THE BONNET FASTENERS ARE BENT SORRY WERE BENT AND I BANG MY HEAD WHEN I GET IN THE CAR. THERES ALSO AN EFI WARNING LIGHT THAT COMES ON WHEN EVER IT WANTS
I AM TOLD ITS A BURNER OR SOMTHING IN THE EXHAUST AND THE DISPLAYS SCARE ME TO DEATH I BROUGHT THE CAR IN SEVEN OAKS AND DROVE IT BACK ON A SUNDAY
A JOURNEY THAT SHOULD TAKE 3.5 HOURS 6 HOURS LATTER I RETURNED TO THE HOME OF MY FATHERS IN SUNNY STOKE. OH THE REASON IT TOOK SO LONG WAS THAT I WAS TOLD HORROR STORYS ABOUT DRIVING IN THE RAIN
ANY HOW MY WIFE HAD A , 3 YEAR OLD MERC CONVETIBLE LOVELY CAR AND I TALKED HER INTO SWOPPING IT FOT THE TUSCAN
GOD WAS I RIGHT ITS GREAT FANTASTIC IVE NOT HAD TO DRIVE PROPERLY SINCE THE LATE SEVENTIES , MORE PEOPLE HAVE STOPPED ME AND ASKED ABOUT THE CAR THAN I CAN COUNT FROM OLD UNS TO HOODIES, MY CONCLUSION IS THIS
ASK ME TO SWOP MY, SORRY MY WIFES TVR FOR ANY CAR ON THE ROAD TODAY AND AS WE POTTERS SAY ?"!^*)<.? YOURS BRING ON THE FAULTS BRING ON THE RAIN SNOW
SLEET OR SUN BRING ON THE BRUISES AND BUMPS ON THE OLD NOGGIN
I LOVVVVVVVVVE THIS CAR MY ONLY WORRY IS THAT AS IM GETTING AGEDED I MAY HAVE TO INVEST IN A STENNA CHAIR LIFT TO GET ME IN IT, AND A ROPE AND A WILLING RUGBY TEAM TO PULL ME OUT. SO BE IF ITS THE PRICE I HAVE TO PAY THEN MEET ME AT THE POST OFFICE WHEN I CASH IN ME PENSION BUT YOU AINT HAVING ME TUSCAN
PS IS IT GAY OR POLITICALY CORRECT TO SAY THAT IM GOING TO WORK IN A TREV
THATS MY ONLY TRUE COMPLAINT MY LAST WORD THANK GOODNESS IS
IM PUTTING THE FAULTS RIGHT MYSELF ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR RESPONSE OH YES IM THINKING ABOUT PUTTING SEALANT AROUND THE WIPER SECTION WHEN I FIT IT AGAIN IS THIS OK
ALL THE BEST
IVAN
Woo Hooo. I have heat
Done mine, thanks to the detailed description and pics.
Mine has the Air con fitted and struggled for ages to get the air box out, but found that the air box is connected to a large rubber elbow under the dash, which once removed, made it a lot easier to remove the air box.
Also the air box was tight to the a/c manifold so had to swing the box (pipes end) towards the engine until the point of touching the exhaust manifold, then sneak the other end out of the hole through the bulk head and lift up. I did this with hoses attached.
Another good point is, now that I have removed and replaced the scuttle panel, should I be regluing the rubber strip to the screen? and if so with what?
Done mine, thanks to the detailed description and pics.
Mine has the Air con fitted and struggled for ages to get the air box out, but found that the air box is connected to a large rubber elbow under the dash, which once removed, made it a lot easier to remove the air box.
Also the air box was tight to the a/c manifold so had to swing the box (pipes end) towards the engine until the point of touching the exhaust manifold, then sneak the other end out of the hole through the bulk head and lift up. I did this with hoses attached.
Another good point is, now that I have removed and replaced the scuttle panel, should I be regluing the rubber strip to the screen? and if so with what?
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