RE: Co-Developed Engines For Tata And Jaguar?
Thursday 21st July 2011
Jaguar Land Rover appears to be planning a joint engine-development programme with its Indian parent company Tata Motors.
Will we see this with the engine...Jaguar and Land Rover sold 62,090 cars for the 2010-2011 and, while that's up nine per cent on the previous year, it's probably still not enough to create the volumes that would be necessary to justify a built-from-scratch engine range. The Tata project would change that.
...from this? Er, probably not...We must say that the idea of a JLR with truly independent drivetrains is almost certainly a good thing. Provided that the engine for the next XF doesn't come from a Tata Nano, of course...
Co-Developed Engines For Tata And Jaguar?
Tata and JLR looking into cooperatively developed engine project
A new engine co-developed with Tata would solve the problem of how to power JLR products (at least the more humbly engined ones) if its supply of engines from Ford and PSA Peugeot-Citroen dries up.
We reported a few months back that JLR could be setting up all-new engine plants in India and Wolverhampton for an all-new modular range of four-cylinder engines of up to 2.0 litres, but the fact that this could also including building engines for Tata-badged products puts extra weight behind the news.
Will we see this with the engine...
"To optimize the synergistic strengths between JLR and Tata Motors in India, an examination is also under way on a joint engine development program which would have manufacturing facilities both in the U.K. and India," said Tata boss Ratan Tata in a statement released in the company's annual report
...from this? Er, probably not...
Discussion
Currently in India. What this announcement really means is
Our road cars have s
t engines and we are being beaten black and blue by 'foreign' cars due to better tech and reliability in the engine dept. We need JLR tech in small packages with rough use in mind.
Our trucks which are our biggest asset in the motor industry is being beaten black and blue by 'foreign' trucks due to better service intervals, reliability, fuel consumption and power. We need JLR tech to beat Volvo, Man etc and reclaim our pride.
We will fund JLR so you can walk around with your own engines in your own cars made in your own back yard and beat the Germans and save your pride as well.
Of course...We will keep JLR under TATA motors for the financials .... you dont have a problem with that do you?
Our road cars have s
t engines and we are being beaten black and blue by 'foreign' cars due to better tech and reliability in the engine dept. We need JLR tech in small packages with rough use in mind.Our trucks which are our biggest asset in the motor industry is being beaten black and blue by 'foreign' trucks due to better service intervals, reliability, fuel consumption and power. We need JLR tech to beat Volvo, Man etc and reclaim our pride.
We will fund JLR so you can walk around with your own engines in your own cars made in your own back yard and beat the Germans and save your pride as well.
Of course...We will keep JLR under TATA motors for the financials .... you dont have a problem with that do you?
cathalm said:
Scotsman, you again. I refuse to rise this time since I'm in a good mood. One day you'll say something positive or well informed. Maybe even both, nah, wishful thinking.
Your problem is that you believe these foreign companies are exactly like us and industrially unpatriotic. They're not of course. They're just taking advantage of our stupidity and short termism. JLR will eventually move most of its production and, once they've trained enough people, most of their development work out of the UK and off to India. I would if I was in their position because Asia is where the growth is.
Oh and as to being informed I'm an energy analyst. I look at this stuff all the time and you can see trends like this coming from ten miles off.
My "problem" is that I get irritated every time you make some jingoistic pronouncement based on supposition. My problem is that I can't fathom how you are unable to be positive about a single thing even on occasion. My problem is you think every thread is a opportunity to decry what you think is the end of little old blighty at the hands of Jonny Foreigner and advertise your singular lack of knowledge about the global marketplace. Energy analyst, blow me down with a feather, how relevant.
Go on, just try to be nice. Just once. please?
Go on, just try to be nice. Just once. please?
A Scotsman said:
Your problem is that you believe these foreign companies are exactly like us and industrially unpatriotic. They're not of course. They're just taking advantage of our stupidity and short termism.
JLR will eventually move most of its production and, once they've trained enough people, most of their development work out of the UK and off to India. I would if I was in their position because Asia is where the growth is.
Oh and as to being informed I'm an energy analyst. I look at this stuff all the time and you can see trends like this coming from ten miles off.
Asians buy western brands...because it is designed in the west. They appreciate the fact that the western market has had these luxuries and know how to design and make them better. They also agree that their labour is cheap and that is the only reason western brands produce in asia.JLR will eventually move most of its production and, once they've trained enough people, most of their development work out of the UK and off to India. I would if I was in their position because Asia is where the growth is.
Oh and as to being informed I'm an energy analyst. I look at this stuff all the time and you can see trends like this coming from ten miles off.
Asians will never buy any western brand if it is designed and built in Asia....as it is not a western brand anymore! JLR will be British by design, R&D...that is the only reason for its success in Asia. JLR will sell zilch if it becomes Indian....Indians would never touch it! Not the ones who can afford a JLR product anyway!
bobbylondonuk said:
Asians buy western brands...because it is designed in the west. They appreciate the fact that the western market has had these luxuries and know how to design and make them better. They also agree that their labour is cheap and that is the only reason western brands produce in asia.
Asians will never buy any western brand if it is designed and built in Asia....as it is not a western brand anymore! JLR will be British by design, R&D...that is the only reason for its success in Asia. JLR will sell zilch if it becomes Indian....Indians would never touch it! Not the ones who can afford a JLR product anyway!
The reality is they will do whatever is cheapest for them and what maximises there profits, a good marketing budget can easily convince people of Jaguars Britishness, if that is indeed a strong selling pointAsians will never buy any western brand if it is designed and built in Asia....as it is not a western brand anymore! JLR will be British by design, R&D...that is the only reason for its success in Asia. JLR will sell zilch if it becomes Indian....Indians would never touch it! Not the ones who can afford a JLR product anyway!
Look at Fosters
cathalm said:
My "problem" is that I get irritated every time you make some jingoistic pronouncement based on supposition. My problem is that I can't fathom how you are unable to be positive about a single thing even on occasion. My problem is you think every thread is a opportunity to decry what you think is the end of little old blighty at the hands of Jonny Foreigner and advertise your singular lack of knowledge about the global marketplace. Energy analyst, blow me down with a feather, how relevant.
Go on, just try to be nice. Just once. please?
Supposition? No - common sense, experience and lots of knowledge about how industries think and act. I'm also not easily impressed and am certainly not as naive as some. Go on, just try to be nice. Just once. please?
"Little old Blighty" isn't declining because of Jonny Foreigner but because of our own stupidity. Foreign countries and companies are only taking advantage of our weaknesses. Ask many companies from advanced nations why they come here and they'll tell you it's because we don't compete. We're no threat. Ask companies from developing countries why they come here or buy up our companies and they'll tell you it's because they can buy our knowledge on the cheap and take it away whenever they want to.
Oh being an energy analyst is very relevant. It tells me a lot about the global marketplace and what's going on where. Energy is a common denominator whose demand is measurable everywhere.
If you want to sell cars or condoms somewhere then look at a country's energy demand.
Sorry you feel that way, but you still have a daft attitude. I don't need to ask business why they come here, I know this day to day and it isn't because we don't compete. That's a pretty backward idea of economics. Foreign investment in uk plc is wonderful thing and JLR is case in point. You've being saying the same things forever and it's never happened , Ratan Tata isn't like that. Suggest you take a look at Evan Lewis new show "made in Britain". It's on ip layer and might give some perspective and lift the gloom for you a bit.
cathalm said:
Suggest you take a look at Evan Lewis new show "made in Britain". It's on ip layer and might give some perspective and lift the gloom for you a bit.
I've watched it. He agrees. When we lose the higher value adding stuff such a designing/manufacturing vehicles as against the lower value adding stuff such as textiles etc then we're in trouble. Sadly - slowly but surely that's exactly what's happening... I've seen it happen in my sector where very little now of the high tech, strategically critical companies are UK owned and as a consequence very little R&D is now done here.
Well the UK is not really a big industrial country anymore, just because were not competitive with countries like Germany in terms of industry does not mean, we dont compete in other area's
Were very good at Finance and Banking, London is one of the major global financial centres, despite everyone seeing it as fasionable these days to knock banks (one of our last major competitive sectors) the fact is we should be doing more to promote what were good at, and what were competive at
Instead all i hear is talk of "rebalancing" our economy away from something were good at, and try and instead to out do countries at industry when those countries have a fundamental competitve advantage over us
Dont get me wrong, the Govt should be promoting all lines of business, including industry, but promoting industry, should not go hand in hand with talk of over reliance on finance, UK financials have contributed absolutely zillions in tax over the years and will continue to do so in the future aswell, the govt bank bail out was common sense, and will pay out very well in the long term.
Yes being reliant on one sector is not ideal, but if it's the only sector you are really competive in, then you must make the best of it, the answer is to promote that competiveness further, not take a negative and populist tone towards a finance sector that will see the country very much worse of if it goes into terminal decline
Were very good at Finance and Banking, London is one of the major global financial centres, despite everyone seeing it as fasionable these days to knock banks (one of our last major competitive sectors) the fact is we should be doing more to promote what were good at, and what were competive at
Instead all i hear is talk of "rebalancing" our economy away from something were good at, and try and instead to out do countries at industry when those countries have a fundamental competitve advantage over us
Dont get me wrong, the Govt should be promoting all lines of business, including industry, but promoting industry, should not go hand in hand with talk of over reliance on finance, UK financials have contributed absolutely zillions in tax over the years and will continue to do so in the future aswell, the govt bank bail out was common sense, and will pay out very well in the long term.
Yes being reliant on one sector is not ideal, but if it's the only sector you are really competive in, then you must make the best of it, the answer is to promote that competiveness further, not take a negative and populist tone towards a finance sector that will see the country very much worse of if it goes into terminal decline
Edited by peter450 on Friday 22 July 00:07
im sure that I will be called naive and shortsighted for this one but....
The current engine supply chain comes through the joint agreement with ford and psa, even if the supply chain does not dry up other factors can effect this decision. Fundamentals of engine design are not controlled by JLR so they effectively have to put up with what they are given, this means that some fundamental design components need to be compromised to allow the engine to fit (look at the bonnet on the latest defender). Having their own engines means design is controlled in house and so can give a better overall product due to more control
The current engine supply chain comes through the joint agreement with ford and psa, even if the supply chain does not dry up other factors can effect this decision. Fundamentals of engine design are not controlled by JLR so they effectively have to put up with what they are given, this means that some fundamental design components need to be compromised to allow the engine to fit (look at the bonnet on the latest defender). Having their own engines means design is controlled in house and so can give a better overall product due to more control
So according to PH positive forum posters, JLR now designing and building its own smaller engines in the UK (V8's already are)instead of buying in other OEM's units, and creating a load more UK manufacturing/engineering jobs in the process is both unpatriotic and a bad thing?
God i love this place!!!
God i love this place!!!
Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff