Nissan steer-by-wire arriving next year
Discussion
BBC said:
In addition it suggested that the development would "insulate" motorists from disturbances caused by unnecessary feedback.
Finally that pesky steering feel has been eradicated completely!BBC said:
we would be able to place the steering wheel wherever we like," said Masaharu Satou, a Nissan engineer.
"Such as in the back seat, or it would be possible to steer the car with a joystick."
Yes why wouln't you want to control your car by jiggling a dildo on the back seat. "Such as in the back seat, or it would be possible to steer the car with a joystick."
Seriously though this'll be on everything in ten years.
Perd Hapley said:
Seriously though this'll be on everything in ten years.
Sadly, you are right, and by then we won't need any feedback, beacause we'll have so much gadgetry to stop us hurting ourselves that we won't need to know what happens where the rubber meets the road. Come back TVR.
civicduty said:
As the article says Aircraft have employed this type of control for years, no reason it shouldn't work in a car.
Aircraft - Maintained by huge crews to a very strict level and regulated very heavily on the processes.Cars - Run by iddiots who often miss services becvause "The MOT covers all that right?".
I have no issue that it will work, it's the idiots that will have one when it stops working I worry about.
Nick
Just read this on the BBC, had to check on here straight afterwards. As already said surely this is an April Fools story. The giveaway has to be an engineer suggesting placing the steering wheel in the back!
I'm also not sure we should be isolated from all that "unnecessary feedback". You need that feedback.
When they give us hover cars I'll accept drive/fly by wire, but until then the future really doesn't look that attractive.
I'm also not sure we should be isolated from all that "unnecessary feedback". You need that feedback.
When they give us hover cars I'll accept drive/fly by wire, but until then the future really doesn't look that attractive.
Partial brake by wire caused Mercedes so much trouble with the W211 E-Class that it has singlehandedly put back the clock for steer by wire for a decade at the least.
With a perpetually declining economy, the huge push on drivetrain development in order to meet current and forthcoming EU regulations taking most of the engineering ressources and ever growing price pressure on system suppliers making it difficult to handle even current levels of technical complexity in the field without an onslaught of expensive recalls, I can't see it happening any time soon.
The main driver for by-wire technology is that it enables new safety and comfort functionality. The market, however, doesn't have an overwhelming desire for those, preferring A- and B-segment car with relatively low technology content instead.
The way I see it, we're as far removed from the technocrats' brave new world of(complete) brake-by-wire and steer-by-wire, if noth further, than at the beginning of the decade. The technology has been there for a while, but the market won't bear it; not at OEM level and not in the workshops where the cars need to be maintained.
With a perpetually declining economy, the huge push on drivetrain development in order to meet current and forthcoming EU regulations taking most of the engineering ressources and ever growing price pressure on system suppliers making it difficult to handle even current levels of technical complexity in the field without an onslaught of expensive recalls, I can't see it happening any time soon.
The main driver for by-wire technology is that it enables new safety and comfort functionality. The market, however, doesn't have an overwhelming desire for those, preferring A- and B-segment car with relatively low technology content instead.
The way I see it, we're as far removed from the technocrats' brave new world of(complete) brake-by-wire and steer-by-wire, if noth further, than at the beginning of the decade. The technology has been there for a while, but the market won't bear it; not at OEM level and not in the workshops where the cars need to be maintained.
civicduty said:
As the article says Aircraft have employed this type of control for years, no reason it shouldn't work in a car.
There are two philosophies applied to aircraft fly by wire systems:Boeing Commercial aircraft and I believe all fighters have artificial feedback applied to the column or sidestick to give the feel of conventional controls.
Airbus just use a proportional control without feedback, and their justification is that the systems will always keep the aircraft flying within a safe envelope, so the pilot doesn't need to be told when he is near the edge.
Back to the car: Do we want to be so divorced from the surroundings, like flying an airbus, that we can't feel when we are running on a potentially slippy white line, or feel the beginnings of frost, or the difference between a wet and dry road. 10 years or so ago many US cars were power assisted to the point where they had no steering feel at all, and personally, I'd rather know what is going on underneath me, but maybe that's just personal choice.
Yet another example of the manufacturers trying to insulate the driver from the very act of driving... And frankly, just another thing to go wrong.
I can just imagine some of the insurance claims from those with cars full of gizmos like this in time. Something else for poor drivers to blame when they can't feel the ice beneath their tyres I guess.
I can just imagine some of the insurance claims from those with cars full of gizmos like this in time. Something else for poor drivers to blame when they can't feel the ice beneath their tyres I guess.
There's nothing very new about all of this stuff.
Saab had a development vehicle running with this sort of tech back in 1992 - link - with input (no pun intended) from their then-colleagues at Saab aerospace.
Further back, Citroen proposed a fully-hudraulic steering system for the DS back in around 1950.
The main difference now is that electronics are (relatively) cheap and (very) fast, allowing reliable operation with redundancy built-in for little more cost than a decent stereo.
Saab had a development vehicle running with this sort of tech back in 1992 - link - with input (no pun intended) from their then-colleagues at Saab aerospace.
Further back, Citroen proposed a fully-hudraulic steering system for the DS back in around 1950.
The main difference now is that electronics are (relatively) cheap and (very) fast, allowing reliable operation with redundancy built-in for little more cost than a decent stereo.
As others have said the capability to implement this technology has been around for at least 10/15 years. It has been available, in hydraulic form (steer-by-oil...), on low speed, primarly off road vehicles, for a lot longer than that. Just for the record it can be done with a conventional hydraulic steering gear just by removing the torsion bar...
The advantages are:-
Reduced component costs
Reduced assembly costs
Easier packaging
Enhanced ability to integrate with the vehicle control/safety systems
Increase safety in the event of an accident
Elimination of unwanted feedback
Any desired feedback can be engineered into the system
Vehicle construction and use regulations in many countries require a back up system to steer the vehicle should the primary system fail, any current hydraulic or electrical power steering system will revert to manual therebye satisfying the letter of the law. It must be said, however, that should any of the current steering systems fail in mid corner you will have significant control issues...
The reasons steer-by-wire has not been implemented to date include the above regulations and public acceptance as evidenced by the above reactions.
In the Nissan case they appear to have backup clutch which engages a mechanical drive to satisfy the letter of the law, this will, off course negate many of the above advantages.
The advantages are:-
Reduced component costs
Reduced assembly costs
Easier packaging
Enhanced ability to integrate with the vehicle control/safety systems
Increase safety in the event of an accident
Elimination of unwanted feedback
Any desired feedback can be engineered into the system
Vehicle construction and use regulations in many countries require a back up system to steer the vehicle should the primary system fail, any current hydraulic or electrical power steering system will revert to manual therebye satisfying the letter of the law. It must be said, however, that should any of the current steering systems fail in mid corner you will have significant control issues...
The reasons steer-by-wire has not been implemented to date include the above regulations and public acceptance as evidenced by the above reactions.
In the Nissan case they appear to have backup clutch which engages a mechanical drive to satisfy the letter of the law, this will, off course negate many of the above advantages.
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