RE: M25 - What's the Answer?
Wednesday 19th June 2002
M25 - What's the Answer?
It's too popular for its own good. What next?
Discussion
How about closing the m25 junctions that are not with another motorway or major A road. This should reduce the volume of traffic by discouraging the local traffic. Admittedly this puts it back onto the local roads, but this should help the motorway provide an alternative for people who are trying to avoid London.
Just my 2c worth.
Just my 2c worth.
If we have an increase in traffic of 25%, we will need an extra 25% more roads to maintain our present state of flow - which is pretty poor already.
This won't happen though, as it costs money. We all know the billions we pay each year goes on dhs instead of the infastructure.
The only thing to do is keep those that cannot afford it off the roads. This will be done with more fuel tax / road tax / tolls. There is no other option. Motoring will only be affordable to those with jobs.
>> Edited by Roadrunner on Wednesday 19th June 16:05
This won't happen though, as it costs money. We all know the billions we pay each year goes on dhs instead of the infastructure.
The only thing to do is keep those that cannot afford it off the roads. This will be done with more fuel tax / road tax / tolls. There is no other option. Motoring will only be affordable to those with jobs.
>> Edited by Roadrunner on Wednesday 19th June 16:05
If the North Circular Road was upgraded along it's entire length to the same standard that it is on some of the newer sections, a lot of traffic based between the NCR and the M25 would make more use of it.
But then, there have been plans to widen/tunnel the single lane sections at Palmers Green and Ealing for years and nothing has happened thus far. Maybe in someone else's lifetime...
But then, there have been plans to widen/tunnel the single lane sections at Palmers Green and Ealing for years and nothing has happened thus far. Maybe in someone else's lifetime...
Public transport alternatives - my asre! - I do not use , will not use , public transport - until it picks me up from where I am, and takes me to where I want to go, in some privacy, and whilst allowing me to smoke. I actually avoid international travel as much as I can , which is probably why I use videoconferencing for many meetings - so I can Smoke! Why not put a toll on the M25 - I would shell out a few quid to get around more quickly (even though we pay a lot of tax anyway). Ban volvo's as well, and put a daytime charge on lorries - get them to use the motorway network between 8 and 8. My 2 cents worth. Rant off. Like the shut minor junctions idea!
It might not be the right answer for the M25 but I seem to recall that when I worked in Abu Dhabi some years ago they had "truck roads" between the major population centres. Anyone or anything was allowed to use them but the parallel "non-truck" road was open only to vehicles below a specific (pretty low) weight.
Result - truck road was endless convoy of trucks all chugging along quite happily a bit like a giant train, non-truck road was all cars going like a bat out of hell.
Admittedly they had a bit more room to play with but it's worth thinkig about.
Result - truck road was endless convoy of trucks all chugging along quite happily a bit like a giant train, non-truck road was all cars going like a bat out of hell.
Admittedly they had a bit more room to play with but it's worth thinkig about.
quote:
It might not be the right answer for the M25 but I seem to recall that when I worked in Abu Dhabi some years ago they had "truck roads" between the major population centres. Anyone or anything was allowed to use them but the parallel "non-truck" road was open only to vehicles below a specific (pretty low) weight.
Result - truck road was endless convoy of trucks all chugging along quite happily a bit like a giant train, non-truck road was all cars going like a bat out of hell.
Admittedly they had a bit more room to play with but it's worth thinkig about.
Hey that seems like a good idea...
They should also sort the railways out, then the trucks would only need to go from railway depot to destination...
*shrug*
It's a little late now, but an approach could have been to encourage a less centralist approach to the nation's more modern industries. I know there are good reasons for co-location, but it doesn't help if the infrastructure isn't similrly improved.
Not everyone who sits for hours on clogged m25/m4 whatever actually wants to live anywhere near them, and would much rather they hadn't had to, I would suggest.
As for public transport -- well, as bad as it is, London region is the only part of the country where it could be said to exist in a viable form. The rest of the place it basically doesn't exist and this seems to be lost on any government as everything seems to be decided on the sole basis of what transport policy is best for London. (ok, slight exageration considering public transport in Birmingham, Manchester etc).
Anyway, I've lurched onto two of my pet hates
so I'd better calm down a bit now...
>> Edited by whatever on Wednesday 19th June 18:07
Not everyone who sits for hours on clogged m25/m4 whatever actually wants to live anywhere near them, and would much rather they hadn't had to, I would suggest.
As for public transport -- well, as bad as it is, London region is the only part of the country where it could be said to exist in a viable form. The rest of the place it basically doesn't exist and this seems to be lost on any government as everything seems to be decided on the sole basis of what transport policy is best for London. (ok, slight exageration considering public transport in Birmingham, Manchester etc).
Anyway, I've lurched onto two of my pet hates
so I'd better calm down a bit now... >> Edited by whatever on Wednesday 19th June 18:07
Well, I think there are some quite good ideas in this, for once. No proposal is going to be perfect, but this doesn't seem to carry the usual radib anti-motorist characteristics.
Reality does suck, because it's always going to be a compromise. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I see compromise as defeat that you're forced to grin about. Nonetheless, there are some positive aspects relative to some other supposed wisdom we've been subjected to.
We've the opportunity to give them feedback too, so I hope everyone does. You know the score - keep it constructive. If you descend to insults, your views however valid will be discarded.
And if you're in the ABD, make sure you're local organiser is doing his bit and maybe offer him a hand!
>> Edited by CarZee on Wednesday 19th June 18:34
Reality does suck, because it's always going to be a compromise. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I see compromise as defeat that you're forced to grin about. Nonetheless, there are some positive aspects relative to some other supposed wisdom we've been subjected to.
We've the opportunity to give them feedback too, so I hope everyone does. You know the score - keep it constructive. If you descend to insults, your views however valid will be discarded.
And if you're in the ABD, make sure you're local organiser is doing his bit and maybe offer him a hand!
>> Edited by CarZee on Wednesday 19th June 18:34
Ok, easy.
Ban lorries from middle lane.
Raise speed limit to 90, minimum limits per lane, drop BELOW 70, and face a fine.
Better on/off ramp design, so you don't get bottle necks. The m-way is quite capable of supporting the load, if it wasn't for selfish w@nkers.
Teach lane discipline, and allow overtaking on both sides.
Ban vehicles below certain power/weight ratio, or better still allocate lanes for power/weight.
Test drivers so that they are graded according to what lane they can use. If you want an upgrade, then apply for the next test level.
Persuade companies to allow more tele-commuting, and staggered working hours.
Kill politicians.
regds......
Ban lorries from middle lane.
Raise speed limit to 90, minimum limits per lane, drop BELOW 70, and face a fine.
Better on/off ramp design, so you don't get bottle necks. The m-way is quite capable of supporting the load, if it wasn't for selfish w@nkers.
Teach lane discipline, and allow overtaking on both sides.
Ban vehicles below certain power/weight ratio, or better still allocate lanes for power/weight.
Test drivers so that they are graded according to what lane they can use. If you want an upgrade, then apply for the next test level.
Persuade companies to allow more tele-commuting, and staggered working hours.
Kill politicians.
regds......
quote:
As for public transport -- well, as bad as it is, London region is the only part of the country where it could be said to exist in a viable form. The rest of the place it basically doesn't exist and this seems to be lost on any government as everything seems to be decided on the sole basis of what transport policy is best for London.
Absolutely right. Anyone see the Channel 5 news piece on Speed? Yet more nanny-state MPs deciding whats best for the motoring public on the basis of being driven around by a chauffeur. F*****s33% increase in traffic - where does that come from?
Teach lane discipline - allow undertaking - I know what you're saying but are you sure this would work - sounds like a recipe for chaos? In the US you can mostly undertake but the way that works out in practice is everyone drives on autopilot so they just sit in the one lane. You end up slaloming to get around them and it just doesn't feel safe (IMHO). IIRC Italy used to have a law that said right lane unless overtaking - and there was a specific, fineable offence if you didn't follow it. Which seems a good idea - but it's apparently been revoked so I don't know if it had the desired effect or not.
Personally I think those big electronic motorway signs should say "Don't hog the middle lane" / "Stay left unless overtaking" / "Remember the 2 second rule" when they're not actively warning for something else.
Teach lane discipline - allow undertaking - I know what you're saying but are you sure this would work - sounds like a recipe for chaos? In the US you can mostly undertake but the way that works out in practice is everyone drives on autopilot so they just sit in the one lane. You end up slaloming to get around them and it just doesn't feel safe (IMHO). IIRC Italy used to have a law that said right lane unless overtaking - and there was a specific, fineable offence if you didn't follow it. Which seems a good idea - but it's apparently been revoked so I don't know if it had the desired effect or not.
Personally I think those big electronic motorway signs should say "Don't hog the middle lane" / "Stay left unless overtaking" / "Remember the 2 second rule" when they're not actively warning for something else.
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