Killer drivers facing longer jail terms
Discussion
quote:
www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_636089.html
Killer drivers facing longer jail terms
Jail sentences for drivers who kill at the wheel are to rise sharply under proposals announced by ministers.
Speeding motorists will also face stiffer fines along with community work orders.
The proposals in a Home Office report would also increase the penalties for drivers using mobile phones while on the move.
One of the offences already used against such offenders will be toughened to carry penalty points - but the Government has rejected calls to make it a specific offence.
The maximum jail term for causing death by dangerous driving, including causing death while "joyriding", will rise from 10 to 14 years - meaning motorists who kill could receive a longer prison sentence than people convicted of murder.
Fines will be replaced by "tough, new, flexible community penalties" for some motorists convicted of speeding, careless driving and uninsured driving. There will be a new two-tier system to deal with speeders, bringing in higher fines for more serious offenders.
Officers would be able to hand out fines significantly higher than the existing £60 on-the-spot penalty, although the "threshold" for what constitutes a more serious offence has yet to be set, a Home Office spokesman said.
Ministers want to make the offence of driving without having proper control of a vehicle - used by police to deal with the problem of motorists using mobile phones - an endorsable offence.
It will carry an as yet undecided number of penalty points, which could lead to motorists who acquire more than 12 points in a three-year period losing their licences.
Meanwhile, there will be a new scheme for repentant offenders to have penalty points taken off their driving licences for good behaviour, for example by attending a driving school at their own expense.
I think cracking down on mobile phone use can only be a good thing, but it's the last paragraph that really interests me.
I'd be well up for "repenting" and doing driver training to clean my license up (if I had any points, that is!)
Sounds like a fab plan for improving the skills of road users.
That last bit looks promising, I'd be up for a bit of arse licking to get a clean licence again.
Not at all sure about giving the little hitlers more discretionary powers though. Do you really want 3 points for eating a Kit-Kat. Or taking a sip of water?
And I wish people would stop whinging about mobile phone use. The feds use their radios on the move, do they have two f**ing brains or something? A handheld is no problem in an auto, and a phone conversation is less distracting that having my mother in law in the back seat. And any sort of mobile phone use has yet to set light to my car seat while I drive. So p*ss off making generalisations and supporting these nanny state arguments.
Not at all sure about giving the little hitlers more discretionary powers though. Do you really want 3 points for eating a Kit-Kat. Or taking a sip of water?
And I wish people would stop whinging about mobile phone use. The feds use their radios on the move, do they have two f**ing brains or something? A handheld is no problem in an auto, and a phone conversation is less distracting that having my mother in law in the back seat. And any sort of mobile phone use has yet to set light to my car seat while I drive. So p*ss off making generalisations and supporting these nanny state arguments.
So tell me why using a handheld in an auto would cause me to wander all over? I'm just curious. It certainly doesn't take two armfuls to twirl my ludicrously overpowered power steering. All the controls are at fingertips, the bloody car drive itself.
Agreed, its a bit stupid with a manual box, and it's easy to see how you'd lose the plot there, but with an auto you don't ever need two hands to do the driving.
And spare me the 'always have two hands at ten to two' bollocks please, the most dangerous numpties on the road are those who shuffle the wheel through their hands in regulation fashion.
As ever, the 'ban mobiles' chant is too simplistic. Just like 'speed kills'.
Stopping is not always practical either - not legal on motorways.
>> Edited by philshort on Wednesday 24th July 17:22
Agreed, its a bit stupid with a manual box, and it's easy to see how you'd lose the plot there, but with an auto you don't ever need two hands to do the driving.
And spare me the 'always have two hands at ten to two' bollocks please, the most dangerous numpties on the road are those who shuffle the wheel through their hands in regulation fashion.
As ever, the 'ban mobiles' chant is too simplistic. Just like 'speed kills'.
Stopping is not always practical either - not legal on motorways.
>> Edited by philshort on Wednesday 24th July 17:22
Because people don't just use their mobiles for chatting to people while they drive. I agree, holding a phone to your ear on the motorway is no more dangerous than talking to passengers and eating crisps.
What IS dangerous is reading/sending text messages, searching through address books, using WAP. Stuff that distracts the driver from regular checks on what what's close in front, what's in the distance in front, what's in each mirror, and what the instrumentation is telling you. Stuff that you need to do constantly in rush hour traffic at faster than crawling speed, especially in bad weather!
What IS dangerous is reading/sending text messages, searching through address books, using WAP. Stuff that distracts the driver from regular checks on what what's close in front, what's in the distance in front, what's in each mirror, and what the instrumentation is telling you. Stuff that you need to do constantly in rush hour traffic at faster than crawling speed, especially in bad weather!
quote:If you are in London, yes! www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=57&t=14232
If I repent and send 10 text messages on my way home, will you forgive me?
I'd bet there'll be quite a few doing the same there tonight. Bastids the lot of em, floggings not good enough, using mobiles while in charge of a vehicle, should be hanged I say!
Bear in mind that in the recent case of someone being nicked for drinking water the driver was stationary at traffic lights. Still want to give your unfettered support to making the use of mobiles while driving an endorseable offence?
quote:
Because people don't just use their mobiles for chatting to people while they drive. I agree, holding a phone to your ear on the motorway is no more dangerous than talking to passengers and eating crisps.
What IS dangerous is reading/sending text messages, searching through address books, using WAP. Stuff that distracts the driver from regular checks on what what's close in front, what's in the distance in front, what's in each mirror, and what the instrumentation is telling you. Stuff that you need to do constantly in rush hour traffic at faster than crawling speed, especially in bad weather!
Like I said, 'ban mobiles' is too simplistic. Glad we are in agreement after all.
>> Edited by philshort on Wednesday 24th July 17:31
quote:
Agreed, its a bit stupid with a manual box, and it's easy to see how you'd lose the plot there, but with an auto you don't ever need two hands to do the driving.
The problem with Law in general is that its a blunt instrument. You cannot create a law that says: You musn't use a mobile phine in a car except its OK to talk on a mobile phone if its an auto with power steering and you are on a road that never requires the application of more than a tiny amount of lock.
In general I agree that banning mobiles in cars is ludicrous given the many and varied other distractions that could be far worse. e.g. Children. Are we supposed to ban children? Or just transporting them by car? Its bollocks isn't it?
There again I view failing to exercise proper control over the vehicle (the offence I believe) as totally unacceptable. And I've seen enough numpties with the handset glued to their ear whilst swerving all over the road to know that *most* people can't control their vehicle whilst on the fecking phone.
So...its a stupid law. But we've got a stupid population. What can you do?
I just have a bit of a problem with giving the police one more weapon to abuse. You can't excuse crap laws by arguing that the ones we have a crap anyway. There is too much legislation, it is too simplistic.
Thank God someone has agreed that in principle it is possible to retain control of a vehicle while using a mobile.
Am I the only one who sees the similarity between 'speed kills' and 'ban mobiles'?
I'm all for reckless use of mobiles being prosecuted as dangerous driving, but the onus should be on the police to prove that the use of the phone constituted a real risk. Innocnt until proven guilty. To make the use of mobiles an absilute offence is to presume guilt.
I was stuck on the M6 in a traffic jam once. Traffic was crawling at 2 or 3 mph - walking would have been faster. Having been near stationary for 10 mins or so, I was in danger of being late for a business appointment. I used my mobile for a courtesy call to my client - "going to be a bit late ...". Plod draws up alongside in Range Rover and blasts the twos. "It was an idiot doing that that caused all this" he yells, "PUT IT DOWN". That would have been 3 points if mobile use is made an endorseable offence - for using a mobile at 3 mph in a jam. Which would have pissed me off somewhat as I have 9 already. Totally over the top reaction, and everyone is gaily agreeing that using a mobile should be a capital offence.
GET REAL, WAKE UP, YOU'RE FREEDOM IS BEING ERODED. Stop giving them sticks to beat you with, think about what you are agreeing to by repeating this bollocks.
Thank God someone has agreed that in principle it is possible to retain control of a vehicle while using a mobile.
Am I the only one who sees the similarity between 'speed kills' and 'ban mobiles'?
I'm all for reckless use of mobiles being prosecuted as dangerous driving, but the onus should be on the police to prove that the use of the phone constituted a real risk. Innocnt until proven guilty. To make the use of mobiles an absilute offence is to presume guilt.
I was stuck on the M6 in a traffic jam once. Traffic was crawling at 2 or 3 mph - walking would have been faster. Having been near stationary for 10 mins or so, I was in danger of being late for a business appointment. I used my mobile for a courtesy call to my client - "going to be a bit late ...". Plod draws up alongside in Range Rover and blasts the twos. "It was an idiot doing that that caused all this" he yells, "PUT IT DOWN". That would have been 3 points if mobile use is made an endorseable offence - for using a mobile at 3 mph in a jam. Which would have pissed me off somewhat as I have 9 already. Totally over the top reaction, and everyone is gaily agreeing that using a mobile should be a capital offence.
GET REAL, WAKE UP, YOU'RE FREEDOM IS BEING ERODED. Stop giving them sticks to beat you with, think about what you are agreeing to by repeating this bollocks.
quote:
I just have a bit of a problem with giving the police one more weapon to abuse. You can't excuse crap laws by arguing that the ones we have a crap anyway. There is too much legislation, it is too simplistic.
Thank God someone has agreed that in principle it is possible to retain control of a vehicle while using a mobile.
Am I the only one who sees the similarity between 'speed kills' and 'ban mobiles'?
I'm all for reckless use of mobiles being prosecuted as dangerous driving, but the onus should be on the police to prove that the use of the phone constituted a real risk. Innocnt until proven guilty. To make the use of mobiles an absilute offence is to presume guilt.
I was stuck on the M6 in a traffic jam once. Traffic was crawling at 2 or 3 mph - walking would have been faster. Having been near stationary for 10 mins or so, I was in danger of being late for a business appointment. I used my mobile for a courtesy call to my client - "going to be a bit late ...". Plod draws up alongside in Range Rover and blasts the twos. "It was an idiot doing that that caused all this" he yells, "PUT IT DOWN". That would have been 3 points if mobile use is made an endorseable offence - for using a mobile at 3 mph in a jam. Which would have pissed me off somewhat as I have 9 already. Totally over the top reaction, and everyone is gaily agreeing that using a mobile should be a capital offence.
GET REAL, WAKE UP, YOU'RE FREEDOM IS BEING ERODED. Stop giving them sticks to beat you with, think about what you are agreeing to by repeating this bollocks.
Whoops, forgot to add my two pennies - must've been on my mobile...or maybe I'm still at work earning more cash with which Dick Turpin and his disciples can restrict me some more.
Point is I wasn't concentrating and THAT's the danger; I know the retort will be 'well you're more likely to be distracted on the mobile whilst on the move' but that's too easy: I try not to use the bugger on the go and am ULTRA CAREFUL when I do - unpopular tho' Phil will be on this one, I'm for freewill in the battle against the propagandanistas.
>> Edited by derestrictor on Wednesday 24th July 19:04
Err..... HELLO??
I think you are all missing the point here. Forget worrying about whether talking on a mobile is going to get you 3 points (although I agree with philshort that our freedom is being eroded if that becomes law). The parts of this to worry about are:
and
I expect most PHers are more likely to get a speeding ticket than be caught chatting on their mobiles. Surely the anti-speeing laws are draconian enough already?
I think you are all missing the point here. Forget worrying about whether talking on a mobile is going to get you 3 points (although I agree with philshort that our freedom is being eroded if that becomes law). The parts of this to worry about are:
quote:
Speeding motorists will also face stiffer fines along with community work orders.
and
quote:
Fines will be replaced by "tough, new, flexible community penalties" for some motorists convicted of speeding
I expect most PHers are more likely to get a speeding ticket than be caught chatting on their mobiles. Surely the anti-speeing laws are draconian enough already?
they can f**k off. I'm getting tinted windows, and will talk to who the hell I want to as long as it doesn't affect my driving.
I reckon you'll see a lot more tints before the year is out. Tints + radar detector + Geodesy. The winning combination to protect your license. Goddamn stupid laws. Blame people who cause accidents, not everyone else. easy huh?
C.
I reckon you'll see a lot more tints before the year is out. Tints + radar detector + Geodesy. The winning combination to protect your license. Goddamn stupid laws. Blame people who cause accidents, not everyone else. easy huh?
C.
I think we have to differentiate here, mobile use when a correctly installed fixed hands-free is OK but can distract, but hand-held numpty phones are a real no-no, especially when they have all the playthings installed. A correct mobile installed costs only pennies nowadays and is safe(r)!!!!!
so why the hell are the MAxPower idiots, WhiteVanMan, Mr Mundaneo, and the Softroader mummy numpties still using their Toxshity XP23000 XLP fancyfones?????? glued to their lugholes???????
so why the hell are the MAxPower idiots, WhiteVanMan, Mr Mundaneo, and the Softroader mummy numpties still using their Toxshity XP23000 XLP fancyfones?????? glued to their lugholes???????
IMHO its not the holding the phone that is the problem, it is the reduction of concentration on driving. I cannot do two things at the same time to the same high level were I to be doing only one of them. Some people can (multi-tasking) eg. fighter pilots, racing drivers etc. The average (wo)man-on-the-street also cannot, therefore to try to concentrate on both together means a real reduction in skill for both things. Generally you concentrate more on spoken input than visual therefore it is the driving that is eroded more. Safe driving (at any speed) requires a high level of concentration therefore anything that reduces this is dangerous.
I am however NOT in favour of a law that bans mobile use as this is not the only thing that distracts people, as pointed out earlier having a whinging mother in law in the back seat is probably far worse. We already have a 'cover-all' law that could be used to prosecute drivers not concentrating, we should use this more often!
I am however NOT in favour of a law that bans mobile use as this is not the only thing that distracts people, as pointed out earlier having a whinging mother in law in the back seat is probably far worse. We already have a 'cover-all' law that could be used to prosecute drivers not concentrating, we should use this more often!
has anyone seen the comments in the papers? according to the daily hello (aka mail - not my regular read, honest!) one can expect points for being 1 mph over the limit (ignoring speedo inacurracy), and bans at 28 in a 20, 86 in 70's etc.. didn't see such detail in other papers littering our canteen, although all pointed to the harsher penalties at lower speeds. Are the courts not crowded enough already? exactly how many resources will be needed to control all this? it sounds like a blatant political decision rather than one that addreses the real issues of traffic and road safety (education being highest IMO).
re: phones - i turn my phone off in the car since i find it a distraction. you may be able to steer in a straight line with one hand, but what about your attention to the road and hazards? it's a pity such legislation is required.....
anyone got any common sense that they can lend the government for a while?
re: phones - i turn my phone off in the car since i find it a distraction. you may be able to steer in a straight line with one hand, but what about your attention to the road and hazards? it's a pity such legislation is required.....
anyone got any common sense that they can lend the government for a while?
quote:
IMHO its not the holding the phone that is the problem, it is the reduction of concentration on driving. I cannot do two things at the same time to the same high level were I to be doing only one of them. Some people can (multi-tasking) eg. fighter pilots, racing drivers etc.
AGREED, as I said its safe(r) to use a voice operated as opposed to a hand held...didn't mean to imply that its without any dangers whatsoever..... When I see these numpties trying to put on make-up, speak on the phone while holding it to the ear and also trying to drive.......
By the way its illegal to use a hand held in Germany and Switzerland AT ANY TIME (whilst driving, not as a passenger) in a car, this also means you can't use the handset of an installed phone. YOu must use a voice operated one........ It also has inferences for your insurance!!! If you're caught using one and had an accident (whether at fault or not!!!) the insurers will just walk away and leave you holding the baby!
Can be VERY expensive..... and then the second hammer, you get done for driving without insurance........
So, 1st fine for using the phone, 2nd anything related to the accident, 3rd driving w/o insurance!!! In otherwords just DON'T!!!!
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