RE: Police road crash victims rise
Thursday 27th January 2005
The Daily Express reports today on another worrying rise in police road crash victims. Road safety group Safe Speed says training standards are to blame, and issued this statement:
Police road crash victims rise
More police training is the answer, says Safe Speed
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Image: Bespoke Driver Training |
Just 12 or 15 years ago, Police Class One drivers were the most highly trained drivers anywhere. The Police driver training establishment set standards that were the envy of the world. "Hendon trained" was a description that immediately demanded great respect in dozens of countries.
But someone decided that the high standards were "elitist". The "Class one" description was replaced with "Police Advanced" and standards began to decline. In the old Class One days it wasn't uncommon for 70 per cent to fail the course. But now, at least in some areas, everyone passes. The conclusion that begs to be drawn is that standards are lower.
When police driver training standards fall there are more crashes. When there are more crashes more people die. The response to rising crashes hasn't been to restore training standards, but to introduce restrictions on what Police drivers are allowed to do. Choices are made in control rooms, not on the ground. These changes may be for the better, but nothing can replace the skills and attitudes that the old system created.
Founder Paul Smith said, "The present incumbents of the Home Office and the Department for Transport have no idea how important the police driver training programme was to UK road safety. It's far more than just police crashes, because the valuable best practice techniques from the police driver training programme have been widely incorporated in many aspects of UK road safety culture. The effect is subtle, but very important."
Paul said, "The golden combination of best practice advice from the police driver training establishment and excellent science from the likes of the Transport Research Laboratory gave us in the UK the safest roads in the world. And that was well over a decade before speed cameras."
"The police driver training establishment based at Hendon was the only centre of driving excellence in the world for at least four decades. It should come as no surprise that the only country with a centre of driving excellence earned the safest roads in the world."
"But Hendon is now just a shadow of its former self. The skills pool has been broken up. Safe Speed demands a most urgent return to former standards. Road safety depends upon it."
Discussion
But someone decided that the high standards were "elitist".
ERM did i wake up on planet tw@t today isnt that the whole point to train the best people to the highest standards.
isnt it about time we accepted the fact that people are good at different things. some may be good at physics, others at filling in dhss forms..
my welding is sh1t so maybe we should stop being "elitist" with welding certificates. and let me go out with my 99 quid b&Q mig welder and stick bridges together. No i thought not.
G
ERM did i wake up on planet tw@t today isnt that the whole point to train the best people to the highest standards.
isnt it about time we accepted the fact that people are good at different things. some may be good at physics, others at filling in dhss forms..
my welding is sh1t so maybe we should stop being "elitist" with welding certificates. and let me go out with my 99 quid b&Q mig welder and stick bridges together. No i thought not.
G
And given the point that cars are 'much safer' with all the electronic wizardary built into them as well.
4 years ago I used to live in an Essex village of Tillingham, I cannot forget a police car being driven through the main street, houses either side and narrow pavements, cars parked on the road. In fact all very dangerous, ande this lunatic in his police car was driving at what I estimated to be 70 - 80 mph. Yes he had blues and twos but I seriously considered reporting what I considered downright idiotic driving.
4 years ago I used to live in an Essex village of Tillingham, I cannot forget a police car being driven through the main street, houses either side and narrow pavements, cars parked on the road. In fact all very dangerous, ande this lunatic in his police car was driving at what I estimated to be 70 - 80 mph. Yes he had blues and twos but I seriously considered reporting what I considered downright idiotic driving.
This report and commentary fails to address the central issue of police pursuit policy.
In Florida, after a mounting death toll related to police and police-related crashes, the government state implemented new pursuit policies designed to minimize the risk to the public. Crashes went down by 60% that same year. And stayed down.
The reason that over 1% of all UK road fatalities are caused by police pursuit is that police pursuit procedures are fundamentally flawed, and cover-ups are the rule rather than the exception.
Yes, training is critical. But unless the form of that training is sound, it won't change a thing.
In Florida, after a mounting death toll related to police and police-related crashes, the government state implemented new pursuit policies designed to minimize the risk to the public. Crashes went down by 60% that same year. And stayed down.
The reason that over 1% of all UK road fatalities are caused by police pursuit is that police pursuit procedures are fundamentally flawed, and cover-ups are the rule rather than the exception.
Yes, training is critical. But unless the form of that training is sound, it won't change a thing.
12 or 15 years ago, what we're you driving back then. Look at the sort of cars people have access to nowadays. 300+ bhp scoobys, evos, porkers and beemers for a start. You'd have thought that now more than ever, driving training needs stepping up a HUGE gear, not bringing down!
The tyneside police, I think, have just reintroduced the chasing of stolen cars, after years spent letting them go, lets hope the police are fully trained to deal with this new directive.
On another note, I was passing cheshire constabularys headquarters the other week, on my way to Oulton Park. 2 cars in front, an omega police car, fully livered up, and a blue omega in front of that, no stickers. In front of us all was a truck. The unstickerd omega was trying to get past the truck. Right up his arse he was, kept poking his nose out, then back in, as oncoming cars went by. Terrible, terrible position for overtaking on the road.
I just hope he was on his first assessment that day.
chris.
The tyneside police, I think, have just reintroduced the chasing of stolen cars, after years spent letting them go, lets hope the police are fully trained to deal with this new directive.
On another note, I was passing cheshire constabularys headquarters the other week, on my way to Oulton Park. 2 cars in front, an omega police car, fully livered up, and a blue omega in front of that, no stickers. In front of us all was a truck. The unstickerd omega was trying to get past the truck. Right up his arse he was, kept poking his nose out, then back in, as oncoming cars went by. Terrible, terrible position for overtaking on the road.
I just hope he was on his first assessment that day.
chris.
robert farago said:
This report and commentary fails to address the central issue of police pursuit policy.
Only 25% of the crashes are during emergency response driving, and pursuit driving is a far smaller percentage still.
The problem CANNOT be pursuit driving. It's general driving.
I had a near miss with a Police patrol car only this weekend...
I wouldn't have minded so much if he'd been involved in a high speed chase at the time, but the fact he couldn't even perform a simple manoeuvre like pulling away from the curb, where he was parked, without checking his mirror or indicating really hacked me off. Its not the first time either that I've nearly been hit by a police vehicle making a very basic driving mistake!
I wouldn't have minded so much if he'd been involved in a high speed chase at the time, but the fact he couldn't even perform a simple manoeuvre like pulling away from the curb, where he was parked, without checking his mirror or indicating really hacked me off. Its not the first time either that I've nearly been hit by a police vehicle making a very basic driving mistake!
There was a nasty crash in Kent yesterday with one police car very badly damaged and as many as 8 other cars involved.
Funnily enough, I counted upto 8 police cars who had managed to get to the scene fairly quickly.....now how many crashes that dont involve a police car get that much roadside assistance from the boys/girls in blue?
Also.....
My wife was recently pulled over for speeding on a very dark country road. Her argument that seemed to stick (as she wasnt given a ticket) was that the police car was so far up her bumper she couldnt even read the POLICE sticker on the front of the car and assumed she was being harassed by another driver and thus accelerated as braking would have caused an accident.
Funnily enough, I counted upto 8 police cars who had managed to get to the scene fairly quickly.....now how many crashes that dont involve a police car get that much roadside assistance from the boys/girls in blue?
Also.....
My wife was recently pulled over for speeding on a very dark country road. Her argument that seemed to stick (as she wasnt given a ticket) was that the police car was so far up her bumper she couldnt even read the POLICE sticker on the front of the car and assumed she was being harassed by another driver and thus accelerated as braking would have caused an accident.
supercharged said:
I had a near miss with a Police patrol car only this weekend...
I wouldn't have minded so much if he'd been involved in a high speed chase at the time, but the fact he couldn't even perform a simple manoeuvre like pulling away from the curb, where he was parked, without checking his mirror or indicating really hacked me off. Its not the first time either that I've nearly been hit by a police vehicle making a very basic driving mistake!
I can't say I've had a great deal of experience with police driving standards, but one memory that is firmly implanted in my brain is that of an on-coming police car on my side of the road appearing suddenly over the brow of a blind hill.
If it wasn't for my quick reactions there would have been a combined 120mph collision. It wouldn't have been a very nice job scrapping the remains of me and my three other passengers and the tw@t of a police man off the road I can tell you!
I think I might get myself one of these for protection if standards fall any more
If it wasn't for my quick reactions there would have been a combined 120mph collision. It wouldn't have been a very nice job scrapping the remains of me and my three other passengers and the tw@t of a police man off the road I can tell you!
I think I might get myself one of these for protection if standards fall any more
supercharged said:
I had a near miss with a Police patrol car only this weekend...
I wouldn't have minded so much if he'd been involved in a high speed chase at the time, but the fact he couldn't even perform a simple manoeuvre like pulling away from the curb, where he was parked, without checking his mirror or indicating really hacked me off. Its not the first time either that I've nearly been hit by a police vehicle making a very basic driving mistake!
No doubt the driver was too busy on his handheld telephone whilst at the same time attempting to eat his mid-morning apple to worry about whether or not he risked YOUR life, limb or property ..........
From what I have seen there is no policy. I have witnessed instances of appaulingly bad police driver tactics. 60mph in a 30 in very heavy traffic on opposite side of the road? I don't care what the reason, it is not on!
I know it's off topic but chances are they are chasing some chav scum who will get let off by the courts anyway.
I know it's off topic but chances are they are chasing some chav scum who will get let off by the courts anyway.
My father was in the Lancashire Constabulary in the 50s/60s including driving on the FIRST mototway. I support the Police.
BUT if there was a genuine recognition the SPEED KILLS then each police officer should log each and every occassion when he or she is speeding in the same way that use of firearms is controlled. We shouldn't have to read the result of an accident to notice (or judge) police speeding or driving standards. As to pursuit - Better that 10 guilty men should go free than 1 innocent one should die
BUT if there was a genuine recognition the SPEED KILLS then each police officer should log each and every occassion when he or she is speeding in the same way that use of firearms is controlled. We shouldn't have to read the result of an accident to notice (or judge) police speeding or driving standards. As to pursuit - Better that 10 guilty men should go free than 1 innocent one should die
I couldn't agree more with what has been said here, for not only is this an issue of the Quality of Police driving standards, it's very much an inditement of their ability to make a judgement on other drivers behaviour on the road. Take the recent policeman and the apple, not in full control case, sounds like madness, almost certainly was. This particular case is not really the point,and in any event the police only enforce the law, good and bad, I wasn't there so what do I know, the point is that a very high percentage of police drivers don't really have the training anymore to make these judgements and remain respected. Having said that,there are always exceptions to the rules, prehaps some pursuit drivers and motorway patrol officers,but not many, not that I have seen anyway, sign of the times I suppose.
WildCat said:
This "high standards are elitist" attitude ist in each facet of life.
Have already ranted about the calibre of UK graduates applying to work in our firm being so low that we recruited from abroad!
Things appear to be dumbed down to spin a slant that all ist OK und improving.
Was it their spelling that was the problem?
Someone will prob correct me, butI heard that Normal Plod, (The ones that turn up 3 days late to a burglary) only have about 4 hours of training before there allowed to drive. Like a lot of you say, its a combination of Cr@p standards, but also Cr@p rules to which they "supposed" to stick to. I do think that stolen cars shud be chased, but they should have more freedom to apprehend them. People who Steal cars drive like w@**ers anyway, so lets get them off the road. Problem is, the Feds are too concerned about the short term cost of damage to there vehicle stopping them, than the long term condition of it happening every week the scumbags are out of prison. Whilst booking the young lady with the apple, i could say with most certainty that more serious offences were probably bieng commited by the copper himself, causing an obstruction whilst he booked her. What level do you take it to? Like previously said, some people can manage to talk on the phone and drive, or eat an apple, where do you draw the line. Ban Smoking?? that involves removing your hands from the wheel? God help you if you sneeze!! hands off the wheel, eyes closed, your a bloody lunatic!!! The thing is rather than seeing black and white as they do, they need to make a judgement on wether they were driving dangerous or not, not make blanket rules for phones and apples and kit-kats. I personally have just started building up a portfolio of offences commited by cops, so if they ever try and do me for anything, I'LL CAUSE SUCH A STINK, They'll wish they hadn't bothered. Ive been told that pavements are for people, and not for parking, in a way only time served plod could muster (endless amounts of patronisation!) at 1 am, nobody in sight except for 3 lads fighting, to which i presume he was supposed to attend. A quick flash of the lights, and blip the siren whilst talking to me meant he didnt have to crane his fat twinky eating @rse out of his penis extension. But get this, 3 days later, hes parked on doubles getting a sandwich, at 12.30 pm, in a main shopping street!! Hypocrits they all are!! I have 3 friends going into the police force, and not one wants to go in to fight crime, most popular reason is retiring on full pay after 30 years, not to mention the stuff they can get away with. No longer is there a pride in looking after there area, its all about money, and whats in it for them. Dont mean to rant but its a similar story for firefighters, they want paying for being at home in bed on standby. Our whole country is going up s**t creak! Im making my millions, then im off to America, where you can shoot the b****rds that break into your house!!!
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