ABD says charging won't work
Drivers' body condemns road pricing scheme
 Charging to avoid this won't work, says ABD |
The Association of British Drivers has condemned Alastair Darling's plans to track Britain's drivers by satellite and charge them per mile.
"Satellite road pricing will be hugely expensive to install, and its effect on people's behaviour has not been properly thought through," said ABD spokesman Nigel Humphries. Mixing his similes, he said, "It won't work - it will be a huge white elephant, and hiding within it is a dark Trojan horse for civil liberties, as it means that drivers will be tagged and tracked like criminals. It will just be a giant version of the London congestion charge -- hugely unpopular and full of perceived unfairness and aggravation for drivers."
The ABD said that "many of Britain's roads are congested, that's true enough. But our rail network simply does not serve the needs of the new population and business centres which have been constructed around an inadequate motorway network. Where they do exist, the railways are also operating at capacity."
"Darling is trying to wave a magic wand at this mess," said Humphries. "But he is not a fairy godmother -- road pricing is just an excuse to delay essential investment in transport infrastructure for another fifteen years. Road pricing is just a great big red herring -- another way of blaming drivers for congestion when it's really down to the investment and planning failures of successive governments."
"This scheme is just tinkering with the problem at huge expense. The only way it can cut congestion is to bring in punitive charges which reduce personal mobility and adversely affect both the economy and people's quality of life. The idea should be consigned to the dustbin before any more time is wasted."
Darling's scheme involves charging differing amounts per mile with the stated aim of discouraging motorists from using the roads at busy times. This idea is flawed, not least because people already have a built-in time incentive to avoid congestion, so where they can, they already are, said the ABD.
According to the ABD, charging can work in two basic ways -- varying charges by time or by route. Neither will show significant benefits, according to the ABD.
The ABD said that, "varying the charge by time, like the London congestion charge, is just going to charge most people more to sit in the same jams. It has been tried on public transport, with higher peak-time rail fares. The peak time trains are still full and the off peak ones empty, because people need to get to work. A full train moves as quickly as an empty train, so there is no built-in incentive to travel off-peak. With roads, that incentive is already there, so those who can avoid rush hour already do. This means the effect of peak time/off peak charging differences will be much less on the roads than on the railways."
The ABD objected to charging by location. It said, "varying the charge by route, like the M6 Toll, will just mean that people use the cheaper route and that becomes congested, while the more expensive route becomes an empty expressway for the wealthy or the occasional leisure user. That's exactly what's happening with the M6 Toll and it means that the overall road space is being used less efficiently. Applying this sort of scheme to existing roads will just move the congestion from one place to another and waste everyone's time in the process."
The ABD said, "bringing in a flexible charge that encourages drivers to use the less congested route is not the answer to these problems. People cannot plan their journeys in advance if they do not know how much it is going to cost. The only benefit is in last minute route changes, or leisure trips where there is some time flexibility. The traffic information technology to deliver these choices to drivers is already available and will be universal in ten years.
"Road pricing, at a huge cost to both the nation's finances and its citizens civil liberties, will do nothing but make the country a less efficient and more unpleasant place."
dinkel said:
In The Netherlands a similar discussions goes on for ages and it just doesn't pay off . . .
Try to live near where you work . . . is all I can say.
Good thing and I agree: charging won't work.
Fuel has tax on it. The more you'll drive the more you pay anyway.
The government know that people are now switching to cars that use less fule (LPG, Hybrid electric cars or cars with 1.0l engines or smaller) and because of that they are losing out on their cash cow. So they need to find other ways to extract cash from Joe Public.
] and try to use public transport to get to and from work. I'm sure the whole system would collapse, the country would grind to a halt and the pay-per-mile shceme would disappear into thin air like A.Darling's brain cells.
If the scheme does ever see the light of day I'll be on the first ferry out of here (with my car, of course).
DC
Meanwhile Alastair Darling sits in his own office across the corridor and seems determined to push on with a car tagging scheme that will monitor all its movements.
Not that I am being paranoid here but surely it would be easier to implant a chip in every person that is monitored from space and kills two birds with one stone.
Im sorry but the chance was missed a few weeks ago to stop this government and its hairbrained plans to remove YOUR freedom of movement and freedom to anonymity. Im sorry but my parents never had to get permission from the government to bring me into this world, what gives the government the right to monitor me and my movements. I pay my taxes. Lets leave it at that and revert to some good old fashioned common sense, responsibility on the individual and earned trust.
. Put it on petrol, the more you pay the more you pollute. This encourages smaller more fuel efficent cars and the method of collection already exists.
How long will it be before we get a note on our bank accounts saying "Debit for exceeding the speed limit during the last 28 days = £120, please surrender your licence".
This scheme won't work. But it never was intended to work.
This is simply a ruse to make us, the clearly stupid public, jump up and down in outrage at such a ridiculous change, in an attempt to convince us that the current system is perfect.
We will obviously then be happy with the fact we are stumping up 80% tax on fuel, not to mention road fund licence and of course the tax on our car purchase in the the first place.
It's politics, the government gives us the choice of either charging lots of money for sitting on their elbows and eating chocolate biscuits or lots and lots of money for the same.
This imho is what all our traffic problems of today are about
It all started with Dr Beeching when they ripped up the railways just like education and health you are not supposed to make money out of public transport.These services are vital. money no object investment. they have to serve the people
So here we are 40 years+ on after the track was ripped up, not a thought given to congestion, pollution, roadworks etc then, all are big issues now all these lines should of been mothballed and put back into use as and when needed
Now we have houses and industrial estates built on them it would cost Billions but it is the only viable answer in the long term
France Germany Switzerland etc should be an example to us all it is typical of this countries mentallity we invented rail travel we built most of the railways in the world......now we buy our disel locos from general motors our tilting trains from Italy to put on out third world railway
I could go and on but heres the dream
go to work on a clean, efficent, non polluting, on time, accessible to all, cheap tickets rail network
And indulge in one's chosen vehicle in our spare time and days off....sweet
1) It's a hideously complex (and expensive/unreliable/unproven) solution to a relatively simple problem (see '2' below and fuel tax for a workable solution).
2) Congestion is its own biggest enemy. I avoid traffic jams because I don't like them. So if I find myself in a jam its because a) I have no choice; b) congestion was unforeseen; or c) the enormous roadside signs installed at great expense along the hard shoulder were blank YET AGAIN (or telling me to wear my seatbelt/drive courteously etc) when they would better have warned me of congestion ahead.
3) Journey cost will become apparent only after the journey is completed. How ridiculous.
These proposals are absurd; it's using technology for technology's sake. And guess who pays for it?...
Darling is not really very clever is he, but then again if you use the title MP it either means you are dishonest or failed at everything else
Dan said:
This scheme won't work. But it never was intended to work.
This is simply a ruse to make us, the clearly stupid public, jump up and down in outrage at such a ridiculous change, in an attempt to convince us that the current system is perfect.
I really think this is a smoke screen to hide what they are really doing. While we are all jumping up and down at Road Pricing they are going to raise road tax or tax on petrol, then the road pricing scheme will slip quietly away making Joe Public think they have won something.
driver8 said:
Let me get this right. Tony Blair is determined to push on with an identity card scheme that will mean having to carry it everywhere and effectively monitors all your movements as an anti terrorist measure amongst other things.
Not that I am being paranoid here but surely it would be easier to implant a chip in every person that is monitored from space and kills two birds with one stone.
Do you know for sure that the cards wont have chips in them, otherwise why does he want us to carry them all the time.
Here! Here!
But given this the smoke screen idea does appear to be a little too obvious, as its blatantly obvious that the economy could not support such a scheme and the public transport infrastructure is in no way shape or form capable of handling the extra load which would more than likely result from this.
If anything given the number of miles I drive a year and the proposed costs, it would be cheaper for me to get my pilots license, buy a plane/helicopter and run it than pay to use the roads.
The whole idea stinks of conspiracy!!
willmark said:
go to work on a clean, efficent, non polluting, on time, accessible to all, cheap tickets rail network
And indulge in one's chosen vehicle in our spare time and days off....sweet
this is kinda what i am doing now, one mile bike ride each day and then weekends is for fun and enjoyment, almost can see it all working, but in the last 4 weeks, have had late trains, signal failures, so even later trains, trains stopping outside of station for no known reason, no guards on the barriers, (so where is the revenue coming in?) and agreed no ones fault english weather.
and i only have to travel 2 stops.
We need to ensure that our voice is heard and I'm afraid to say that we all need to "do our bit" for the cause. Whether this means petitions to the government or other action, we need to be pro active.
I'm thankfull for web sites such as ABD which enable us fight for a common cause This government want to abolish the words "fun + car" while taxing us to death as well.
When will the d**k heads that govern this counry realise, that to get a return you have to invest. Its that simple.
That reminds me,"to govern" implies "to control". We are supposed to be living in a free democratic society, but are we? Agreed, we cannot all be fully informed all of the time to make the best judgements, but the correct outcome for this proposal for us tax payers, is to drop it right now, and sack the minority minded individual who dreampt it up, however well meaning.
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