Tuesday 19th July 2005

M6 Expressway rethink ordered

Government returns to drawing board on toll m/way

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New road build avoids this

The Government has gone back to the drawing board on the M6 Expressway idea, and asked the Highways Agency to think again.

A planned two-lane tolled motorway between Birmingham and Manchester, it has encountered significant opposition from across the political spectrum. As a result, Further work to consider the feasibility and impact of the proposed M6 Expressway has been commissioned, according to Minister for Transport Stephen Ladyman.

The Expressway concept was proposed last July as an alternative to the planned widening of the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester. The Government said it would provide a tolled two-lane expressway in both directions, as opposed to the widening of the existing motorway by one lane in each direction, but could cause less disruption to traffic during construction.

The Government said it was "clear that more road capacity is needed along this route" but that the issue is how best that capacity can be provided taking full account of the impact of construction - whether through a widening scheme or via an Expressway running broadly parallel to the existing route.

The Highways Agency will now undertake detailed development work on the Expressway concept and on widening so that a decision can be taken on the preferred way forward as soon as possible, and enable the additional capacity to be provided without delay, consistent with addressing the environmental concerns.

Stephen Ladyman said: "Having consulted on the idea of an Expressway, it is clear that there is no consensus. But the Expressway is at this stage only a concept, and more consideration needs to be given to the options before a decision can be made. I have therefore asked the Highways Agency to do further work on both options.

"I am clear that this very important route does need more capacity. By carrying out this further work, we will be able to look at the benefits and impacts of both schemes with a view to making a decision on a preferred option next year."

The Government said the expressway idea would take around a year longer to bring to public inquiry than the widening proposal, because of the need to appoint a concessionaire. This additional time would be made up during construction, because the expressway would be built alongside the existing motorway.

In contrast, widening the existing motorway would involve extensive traffic management during construction, which would lengthen the construction timescales by about a year. The DfT said its current best estimate is that work on the widening scheme could start on the ground in 2011 with the scheme opening to traffic in 2016; and that work on the expressway could start on the ground in 2012 with the scheme opening to traffic in 2016.

• DfT Web site with consultation responses

[vetteheadracer]

I would rather pay a few quid to got from Birmingham / Manchester / Birmingham than sit in traffic for hours.

[skyrocketship]

roger that - I use the M6 toll several times a month and then sit in jams between brum and manchester - I would love to see a toll road on that route!

[robdickinson]

But we already pay more than enough for new roads.

.gov cant ignore transport for ever, traist arnt working, busses and trams are only local options.

How can they charge us road tax then charge us to use every new major road built, we'll have a 2 tier road network before long.

[dcb]

skyrocketship said:

roger that - I use the M6 toll several times a month and then sit in jams between brum and manchester - I would love to see a toll road on that route!

Me too - freedom of choice is vital.

Anyway, another lane on the M6 won't help much - too many folks don't know how to use correctly the existing lanes.

[deltafox]

Dont we already pay more than enough without bloody toll roads?

Wheres it all gonna stop? When will enough be enough?

People saying its a good idea based on their own personal experiences of using it just cos it saves em some time are missing the larger picture:

Its designed to make driving about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit and to get us OUT of our cars, so only the very well off will get to drive...and you people (praisers) are hastening the onset of this situation.

I for one will never use any toll road; Id rather bloody well walk, which is a bit ironic....cos thats the whole idea.

Wake up.

[philh]

I live near the M6 at jnc17, i would prefer the extra lane as less disruption to the sourrounding coutryside. There are a lot of built up areas close to the motorway so god knows where they would run the toll road.

[deltafox]

If the tax take from the Road Fund Licence was actually all spent on what it was designed for, thered be no need for toll roads and we'd not be having this debate.:

[havoc]

There's another issue...look at the timescales.

1 extra lane...to be open in...2016!!!

By 2016 you'll need a whole new M-way on that stretch, not just 1 lane!

What planet are these people on?!?


Edit: Oh, and howcome it'll take 6 years to get this scheme started?!? Surely that's a clear sign we have FAR too much bureaucracy and redtape in this country!!!

>> Edited by havoc on Tuesday 19th July 12:32

[cliffe_mafia]

deltafox said:

Dont we already pay more than enough without bloody toll roads? Wheres it all gonna stop? When will enough be enough? People saying its a good idea based on their own personal experiences of using it just cos it saves em some time are missing the larger picture: Its designed to make driving about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit and to get us OUT of our cars, so only the very well off will get to drive...and you people (praisers) are hastening the onset of this situation. I for one will never use any toll road; Id rather bloody well walk, which is a bit ironic....cos thats the whole idea. Wake up.

Nail on the head DF

Our roads should be made of gold the amount we pay for them. If they spent even half of the road fund licence on what its supposed to go on there wouldn't be any congestion.

[cdp]

deltafox said:

about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit

A sneeze would be worse, imagine the visor.

Reminds me of the time my brother was sick before he got his helmet off...

[ATG]

Whether a toll road or not, the expressway sounds like the better idea. (a) its construction will have less impact on the existing road, (b) I see little evidence that super-wide motorways have much more capacity than normal 3 laners given how crap lane discipline tends to be. Whilst it's a pity to dig up more countryside, I fear that is the price we have to accept for having a transport system that works. In order to mitigate the impact on locals, it seems entirely reasonable to me tha the rest of us accept paying for a high quality road ... i.e. we stump up for shoving the thing in a cutting with sound absorbing fences and plantings and a low-noise road surface.

[nickjm]

I'd rather see an extra lane and lorries only allowed to use the 2 inside lanes.

Some parts on Germany's autobahn's don't allow lorries to overtake each other at all, which I think is a good idea too.

[bunglist]

cdp said:

deltafox said: about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit A sneeze would be worse, imagine the visor. Reminds me of the time my brother was sick before he got his helmet off...

Just like in the film with Mel Smith & Griff Rys Jones "Morons form outer space".

[bunglist]

havoc said:

There's another issue...look at the timescales. 1 extra lane...to be open in...2016!!! By 2016 you'll need a whole new M-way on that stretch, not just 1 lane! What planet are these people on?!? Edit: Oh, and howcome it'll take 6 years to get this scheme started?!? Surely that's a clear sign we have FAR too much bureaucracy and redtape in this country!!! This is quite a concern isn't it, surly it cannot take that long to sort building a new bit of road. You are right there are to many civil servents pushing pens trying to justify their jobs which is eating up all the money that should be being spent on the roads. >> Edited by havoc on Tuesday 19th July 12:32

[fimbo]

as Ben Elton once said, it doesn't matter what size bin you have, you'll always overfill it - widening motorways, building extra roads over the countryside won't work - it never has, never will. People's attitude to transport will have to change - but so must the Government's else what's left of the green space we all crave for will be gone for the next generation. IMHO, where they could improve things is junction layout's - if the M25 (Heathrow section) is going to be 8 lanes, how do they think an already over-clogged three-lane M3, M4 and M40 will cope. Surely the money would be better spent improving the efficiency of existing roads - making sure a three lane motorway doesn't shrink to two or a dual carriageway doesn't become a single carriageway - replace roundabouts on A roads with underpasses/exit slips etc etc. Off for a lie down.

[anonymous-user]

dcb said:

Anyway, another lane on the M6 won't help much - too many folks don't know how to use correctly the existing lanes.

That's exactly the problem. I don't think I've come across a worse road for horrendous lane discipline than the M6 north of Birmingham.

[jewhoo]

Why doesn't a private company build it and use a toll to recover cost? That way they could set their own speed limit (private land) and everyone would be happy

[anonymous-user]

fimbo said:

as Ben Elton once said, it doesn't matter what size bin you have, you'll always overfill it - widening motorways, building extra roads over the countryside won't work - it never has, never will.

I just don't buy that at all. It's based on a theory which has an infinite number of cars and car drivers waiting to use the roads which is rubbish.

Cars are cheap to buy everyone who wants one has one (or 2 or 3) already building an extra lane on a motorway won't make more people buy cars and those that have them can only drive one at a time.

4 lanes, with lorries/buses/caravans/trailers in inside 2 lanes only.

Mike

[stesrg]

IMO this strech requires a minimum of 2 lanes each way, and it needs to start next year, 2016 is to Fuing late. what planet are these bloody people on eh.........
Ste...

[Crankedup]

So thats the olymic city sorted for 2012 but a new lane for motorway 2016