RE: Fuel protests fizzle out
Wednesday 14th September 2005
Where do we put the '1'?The UK Government has taken a pasting in the media recently over the cost of fuel, as premium fuels such as Shell Optimax are now routinely found at over £1/litre. A number of US States and other European countries have reduced or suspended fuel duties on all or some types of oil-derived fuels.
Fuel protests fizzle out
UK chancellor fiddles as Europe cuts taxes
Where do we put the '1'?
The UK has done nothing, as chancellor Gordon Brown yesterday ruled out any changes in policy at a speech to the Trade Union Congress speech in Brighton. He said that fuel duty is a smaller proportion of petrol prices than it was at the time of the last fuel protests, in 2000. He also urged oil-producing countries to step up production and to use their huge profits from high-priced oil sales to invest in new production and refining capacity. He is, however, expected to continue the freeze on fuel duty in his forthcoming pre-Budget report.
As a result of this inaction, we could see another wave of fuel price protests, although the first of the three days of planned protests -- today -- has in fact seen little action. At Shell's distribution centre in Jarrow this morning, for instance, there were only about a dozen protestors, and all was quiet at its Avonmouth depot. The CBI reckoned that people recognise that this is to an extent at least a worldwide issue.
However, that hasn't stopped motorists causing shortages by over-buying at the pumps.
Meanwhile, the Association of British Drivers (ABD) has today highlighted a simple measure that the Government can take to reduce pump prices and avoid the disruption of further blockades, and that's to stop the outrageous practice of charging a tax on a tax.
The retail price charged to motorists for fuel is arrived at by taking the cost of the fuel itself, adding fuel duty -- and then adding VAT to both the fuel cost and duty amount. This means that one tax, VAT, is charged on another tax, fuel duty.
ABD fuel tax spokesman Tony Vickers said: "8.24p in every litre is VAT paid on fuel tax - a tax on a tax. The government could reduce pump prices by 8.24p per litre simply by ending this practice."
At the very least, this will solve the problem that smaller garages are finding: they've nowhere to put the extra numeral on their signs as prices lurch over a pound a litre.
Discussion
[quote=The article]Meanwhile, the Association of British Drivers (ABD) has today highlighted a simple measure that the Government can take to reduce pump prices and avoid the disruption of further blockades, and that's to stop the outrageous practice of charging a tax on a tax.
The retail price charged to motorists for fuel is arrived at by taking the cost of the fuel itself, adding fuel duty -- and then adding VAT to both the fuel cost and duty amount. This means that one tax, VAT, is charged on another tax, fuel duty.
ABD fuel tax spokesman Tony Vickers said: "8.24p in every litre is VAT paid on fuel tax - a tax on a tax. The government could reduce pump prices by 8.24p per litre simply by ending this practice."[/quote]
That particular point is a red herring, unfortunately.
The government decide they need [i]x[/i] amount of income from each litre of fuel, and that's what they'll get.
If they were to add VAT before the duty, rather than after, they would simply increase the duty to compensate.
Adding the VAT figure after the duty, simply makes it sound as though we're paying less tax, but then the goverment are pretty good at that (c.f. vat on the 10% car tax, etc. etc.)
The retail price charged to motorists for fuel is arrived at by taking the cost of the fuel itself, adding fuel duty -- and then adding VAT to both the fuel cost and duty amount. This means that one tax, VAT, is charged on another tax, fuel duty.
ABD fuel tax spokesman Tony Vickers said: "8.24p in every litre is VAT paid on fuel tax - a tax on a tax. The government could reduce pump prices by 8.24p per litre simply by ending this practice."[/quote]
That particular point is a red herring, unfortunately.
The government decide they need [i]x[/i] amount of income from each litre of fuel, and that's what they'll get.
If they were to add VAT before the duty, rather than after, they would simply increase the duty to compensate.
Adding the VAT figure after the duty, simply makes it sound as though we're paying less tax, but then the goverment are pretty good at that (c.f. vat on the 10% car tax, etc. etc.)
www.BanThePumps.com is urging everybody to email Gordon Brown to protest against high fuel prices.
The message from www.BanThePumps.com is:
YOU REALLY CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE... please make sure you have forwarded this e-mail onto everyone you know and a copy to the Chancellor or the ministerial team, the address is:
ministers@hm-treasury.gsi.gov.uk
-------------------------------------------------
" I am a UK subject and wish to register my disagreement at a taxation policy currently making fuel in the UK amongst the most expensive in the world, which places an unnecessary burden on industry and individuals.
My disagreement does not indicate support for or against the recent protests with regards to high fuel prices. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are rapidly heading to £1.00 a litre, the vast percentage of which is TAX (in the form of fuel duty or value added tax) and is somewhat higher than the European average, and dramatically higher than other developed countries such as the United States and Australia.
Want petrol prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, UNITED action and persuade the Government to change policy on levying such heavy taxes on fuel.
BanThePumps.com is pushing for ALL British consumers to take action. United we can influence Government policy.
In 2002 Britain was brought to a standstill by the fuel blockades - they didn't work!
Then the 'don't buy petrol on a certain day' campaign failed!
The Government just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.
BUT, BanThePumps.com, has come up with a plan that can really work. Please read on and join in!
Now that the Government has conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 77p - 80p, we need to take aggressive action to make them listen to the fact that we really have had enough of being RIPPED OFF!
With the price of fuel going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if the Government backs down and stops fleecing the UK motorist with disproportionately high taxes.
And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.
Here's what you need to do:
Simply forward a copy of this draft via computers, fax and even print it off and post it to everyone you know... and a copy to the Chancellor:
To email the Chancellor or the ministerial team, the address is:
ministers@hm-treasury.gsi.gov.uk
and to send a letter the address is:
Rt Hon Gordon Brown MP
Chancellor of the Exchequer
HM Treasury
1 Horse Guards Road
LONDON SW1A 2HQ
You can also fax correspondence on 020 7270 458
But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of UK fuel buyers. It's really simple to do!!
Keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
Send this draft to everyone you know via computers, fax and even print it off and post it to everyone you know, send it to the media and anyone with influence. Also sign the petition at www.banthepumps.com.
If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!
If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!
Again, all YOU have to do is send this to 10 people, but send it to everyone to get the message out there.
That's all .
How long would all that take?
If each of us sends this draft out within one day of receipt, all 30 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
I'll bet you didn't think you had that much influence, did you!
Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.
PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT FINALLY YEILDS AND STOP FLEECING THE BRITISH DRIVERS AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY.
Take action NOW!
It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this draft to everyone you know, and and a copy to the dear old Chancellor... and don't forget to sign the petition at www.banthepumps.com
Best Regards
BanThePumps.com
Hi All.
alaws from banthepumps says : "we are rapidly heading for £1 per litre, the vast percentage is tax"
Please explain the meaning of "the vast percentage".
Whilst I can understand the sentiment, if we are to achieve anything we must keep calm, unemotive and speak and write correct english !!.
Further, where does he get fuel at 77p to 80p ??.
Around here UL petrol is typically 97p, of which 47p is duty and VAT. The fuel sell price to the consumer is approx 50p.
Incidentally we had physical violence at the pumps in Bawtry yesterday. Apparently there were two queues into the pumps, and as one car drove away from the front, a "white van man" simply drove into the vacated space from the other direction, that is entering by the exit, opposite to all those queueing. Needless to say this was not appreciated and a brawl ensued.
Meanwhile, two miles down the road was a services with no queues and petrol 4p cheaper per litre.
Funny old world isn't it !!.
vbr CJ.
alaws from banthepumps says : "we are rapidly heading for £1 per litre, the vast percentage is tax"
Please explain the meaning of "the vast percentage".
Whilst I can understand the sentiment, if we are to achieve anything we must keep calm, unemotive and speak and write correct english !!.
Further, where does he get fuel at 77p to 80p ??.
Around here UL petrol is typically 97p, of which 47p is duty and VAT. The fuel sell price to the consumer is approx 50p.
Incidentally we had physical violence at the pumps in Bawtry yesterday. Apparently there were two queues into the pumps, and as one car drove away from the front, a "white van man" simply drove into the vacated space from the other direction, that is entering by the exit, opposite to all those queueing. Needless to say this was not appreciated and a brawl ensued.
Meanwhile, two miles down the road was a services with no queues and petrol 4p cheaper per litre.
Funny old world isn't it !!.
vbr CJ.
Like it really matters.
I honestly don't think we could go very long paying that much money for fuel.
I for one will be still running my car as there are NO alternatives.
Infact, the extra money is eating away at less essential items like mobile phone going to pay as you go, less nights out and more spent in reading or whatever.
Not going to rent DVD's or going out for a meal.
The economy will suffer while we all still use our cars as our mode of transport, and as long as no viable alternative exists, the threat tof a recession as spending and disposable income drop is getting more and more likley.
Along with house prices still being really inflated relative to salaries to, it won't be long till no one can buy a house and commute to work full stop.
Country, tits up. Can't see why Brown is been so single minded and arrogant. Ah, he's a Labour politician lying scum that is no good for our economey, thats why!
Dave
I honestly don't think we could go very long paying that much money for fuel.
I for one will be still running my car as there are NO alternatives.
Infact, the extra money is eating away at less essential items like mobile phone going to pay as you go, less nights out and more spent in reading or whatever.
Not going to rent DVD's or going out for a meal.
The economy will suffer while we all still use our cars as our mode of transport, and as long as no viable alternative exists, the threat tof a recession as spending and disposable income drop is getting more and more likley.
Along with house prices still being really inflated relative to salaries to, it won't be long till no one can buy a house and commute to work full stop.
Country, tits up. Can't see why Brown is been so single minded and arrogant. Ah, he's a Labour politician lying scum that is no good for our economey, thats why!
Dave
cjbolter said:
Around here UL petrol is typically 97p, of which 47p is duty and VAT. The fuel sell price to the consumer is approx 50p.
And you've just fallen for the point made right at the start... by adding VAT onto the duty, they're trying to con you into thinking you're paying less tax. 47p per litre is DUTY. You then pay VAT on top of that duty, overall tax on fuel is over 60p per litre.
d-man said:
Around here UL petrol is typically 97p, of which 47p is duty and VAT. The fuel sell price to the consumer is approx 50p.
And you've just fallen for the point made right at the start... by adding VAT onto the duty, they're trying to con you into thinking you're paying less tax. 47p per litre is DUTY. You then pay VAT on top of that duty, overall tax on fuel is over 60p per litre.
Quoting myself from another thread this morning:
Based on 94.9p/litre, distribution 5p, duty 47p. Total (tax and duty) is 65%.
Size Nine Elm said:
Quoting myself from another thread this morning:
Based on 94.9p/litre, distribution 5p, duty 47p. Total (tax and duty) is 65%.
Thats clearly a diagram produced by the government to mislead, surely the VAT elements should be on the same side of the diagram as the duty.
The spin in this diagram makes it look 50/50.
Still at least the current levels of taxation enable the funding of wars in Iraq, mass immigration and ensure the unemployed can still enjoy sky and ciggarettes.
Bennno
bennno said:
Quoting myself from another thread this morning:
Based on 94.9p/litre, distribution 5p, duty 47p. Total (tax and duty) is 65%.
Thats clearly a diagram produced by the government to mislead, surely the VAT elements should be on the same side of the diagram as the duty.
The spin in this diagram makes it look 50/50.
Still at least the current levels of taxation enable the funding of wars in Iraq, mass immigration and ensure the unemployed can still enjoy sky and ciggarettes.
Bennno
Eh....
That's how pie charts work?
It looks to me that it's worse than 50/50. Anything other would be a distortion to make it look as good as 50/50.
I for one cannot be bothered with pie charts and fancy statistics and targets etc that seems to be the norm these days... in the real world, petrol is now approaching or over the £1 per litre mark, diesel markedly more in some cases.. this is ridiculously expensive, and the main reason it is expensive is because in some form or other the majority of it goes to the Government in tax/duty, which if am wrong correct me goes to supposedly back on the roads? along with all the road tax that is paid in this country is a lot of cash, running into billions, but can anyone see where this is been spent? .. and hasn’t anyone actually considered the knock on effect of food increasing in price, public transport( where it actually exists!!!) fares increasing, and anything that is carried by road which is reliant on petrol/diesel, but not only petrol/diesel is now expensive but so is gas and electricity for homes increasing.. but the working people( not these cretins who dwell in government offices who have a car provided free of charge)salaries don’t increase accordingly to match the extra expenditure... where will these increases end?.. there are only so many things that can be saved on before something has to give, be it the quality of peoples lives or running a car or heating the family home?..
I am fortunate enough to work from home. although in an auto orientated business which will begin to suffer in the near future if nothing is done against this government to stop this dictatorship and arrogant attitude of " its not me, its the global economy"... it makes me frequently wonder who actually voted for these idiots once more?? and for all the green peace ppl why don’t they bugger off to some forest or jungle somewhere where they can go and hug the trees and saplings all day long....
I am fortunate enough to work from home. although in an auto orientated business which will begin to suffer in the near future if nothing is done against this government to stop this dictatorship and arrogant attitude of " its not me, its the global economy"... it makes me frequently wonder who actually voted for these idiots once more?? and for all the green peace ppl why don’t they bugger off to some forest or jungle somewhere where they can go and hug the trees and saplings all day long....
The problem now is that because of Gordons pledges to invest vast amounts of money on the NHS, schools, Think tanks, red tape, etc. The economy hasn't grown as much as he would have liked, so to pay for it all. Now he's sat there thinking "Thank god fuel has gone up, now I can make up any short fall by earning loads more tax in fuel. The Britsh public will make a song & dance about it, do nothing, I'll blame oil producing countries, the brish people will belive me (cos their dumb) and give it a week or so & they'll all shut up and just pay it anyway so I don't need to lower fuel tax".
Why can't the media help in supporting fuel blockades and unite the counrty to make a stand to say no. We should be more like the french. They would have blocked off ports, refineries, airports etc by now. If we do that, what can the police do? nothing, try arresting thousand of people. It can't be done.
Why can't the media help in supporting fuel blockades and unite the counrty to make a stand to say no. We should be more like the french. They would have blocked off ports, refineries, airports etc by now. If we do that, what can the police do? nothing, try arresting thousand of people. It can't be done.
Sorry, but by quoting tax rates at "65% of the price of a litre" you're helping the governments position.
If the production and delivery costs of fuel are around 30p/litre, then you'll find that duty and tax is over 200%. This is the figure the fuel protestors should be trying to get into the media's heads.
But as has been said before, other than small adjustments, fuel costs are going to remain high. The govt' needs the money, the oil producers are making a mint, and the green lobby are effective in making their case for maintaining high petrol prices.
SS7
If the production and delivery costs of fuel are around 30p/litre, then you'll find that duty and tax is over 200%. This is the figure the fuel protestors should be trying to get into the media's heads.
But as has been said before, other than small adjustments, fuel costs are going to remain high. The govt' needs the money, the oil producers are making a mint, and the green lobby are effective in making their case for maintaining high petrol prices.
SS7
article said:
He is, however, expected to continue the freeze on fuel duty in his forthcoming pre-Budget report.
of course he is - there is no need to increase duty when all the extra money rolls in every time there is a tiny increase in fuel costs!
If the day ever comes that fuel prices start to drop, then fuel duty will go up. Either way we are buggered.
dilbert said:
Size Nine Elm said:
Quoting myself from another thread this morning:
Based on 94.9p/litre, distribution 5p, duty 47p. Total (tax and duty) is 65%.
Thats clearly a diagram produced by the government to mislead, surely the VAT elements should be on the same side of the diagram as the duty.
The spin in this diagram makes it look 50/50.
Still at least the current levels of taxation enable the funding of wars in Iraq, mass immigration and ensure the unemployed can still enjoy sky and ciggarettes.
Bennno
Eh....
That's how pie charts work?
It looks to me that it's worse than 50/50. Anything other would be a distortion to make it look as good as 50/50.
the earlier diagram has been modified. before it appeared seperated in two halves with duty on one side and VAT / Retailer on the other...
Bennno
shoestring7 said:
Sorry, but by quoting tax rates at "65% of the price of a litre" you're helping the governments position.
If the production and delivery costs of fuel are around 30p/litre, then you'll find that duty and tax is over 200%. This is the figure the fuel protestors should be trying to get into the media's heads.
OK - updated again to show tax/duty as % of basic cost...
And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is about as regressive a tax as you can get!!!
Think about it - as income goes up, what's the one major item of expenditure that increases slowest?!?
- Mortgage? Nope, you buy a better house.
- Food & drink? Nope, you buy steak not mince, you go to restaurants not take-aways. You drink decent alcohol not cheap muck.
- Car purchase? Nope, that's a status symbol, you've gotta have the best you can!
The only other item which I have in recent times spent c. 10% or more of my disposable income on is petrol...and I can't be alone in that...and I consider I'm doing OK, financially.
If you look at the profile of government income and compare 1979 (when VAT was something like 5% or 8%, and fuel duty was much lower) with 2005, it will show how much more of the tax burden now is borne by indirect taxes not by direct Income and Corporation tax. And it is proven that indirect taxes hit those on low incomes hardest as a proportion of income.
In other words, ladies and gentlemen, the rich are paying less than ever, the working classes are paying more than ever, and those who sponge off the state are having to get bigger handouts to pay for the VAT and duties that are slapped all over everything, meaning the government needs to raise more taxes to provide for that.
What a f'd up country we live in.
Think about it - as income goes up, what's the one major item of expenditure that increases slowest?!?
- Mortgage? Nope, you buy a better house.
- Food & drink? Nope, you buy steak not mince, you go to restaurants not take-aways. You drink decent alcohol not cheap muck.
- Car purchase? Nope, that's a status symbol, you've gotta have the best you can!
The only other item which I have in recent times spent c. 10% or more of my disposable income on is petrol...and I can't be alone in that...and I consider I'm doing OK, financially.
If you look at the profile of government income and compare 1979 (when VAT was something like 5% or 8%, and fuel duty was much lower) with 2005, it will show how much more of the tax burden now is borne by indirect taxes not by direct Income and Corporation tax. And it is proven that indirect taxes hit those on low incomes hardest as a proportion of income.
In other words, ladies and gentlemen, the rich are paying less than ever, the working classes are paying more than ever, and those who sponge off the state are having to get bigger handouts to pay for the VAT and duties that are slapped all over everything, meaning the government needs to raise more taxes to provide for that.
What a f'd up country we live in.
Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff