RE: Bodyshop Meltdown
Monday 4th November 2002
Bodyshop Meltdown
Is the accident repair industry being squeezed too hard by the insurers?
Discussion
I've been waiting for ages for someone to criticise the insurance industry. Year upon year they squeeze people out of their cars and receive bucketload upon bucketload of 'dead money'. When I first learnt to drive, I spent two years paying what was more than the value of the car I was driving in anticipation of the massive write-off crash that all 18-year-old men have. Did it happen? No. The issue over bodyshops is worrying as it highlights how increasingly our cars are being treated as disposeable White Goods by non-petrolheads who live behind desks and occasionally see the outside world on T.V. There must also be some other way of profiling drivers other than meaningless statistics churned out by the news-crap machine that Ted's last rant was over. As a young male motorist who knows about cars and safe driving, I actually feel persecuted and insulted by this. However, if protest mounts, the bodyshops could be the tip of the iceberg.
P.S. I apologise in advance if I have offended anyone in the insurance industry, and you are perfectly entitled to put me straight, but as a customer, I think this general situation is unfair. What do other PHs think?
P.S. I apologise in advance if I have offended anyone in the insurance industry, and you are perfectly entitled to put me straight, but as a customer, I think this general situation is unfair. What do other PHs think?
batfink said: U can earn more stacking shelves!! My arse you can. Ive never seen a shelf stacking job in Tescos go for 20 smackers an hour!
Yes, but thats not what the apprentices get paid is it!
They are on more like £7K a year which personally I think is shocking for a proper skill like spraying/beating. Remember these days most dealer mechanics are nothing more than fitters but spraying is a proper skill.
But whilst the Insurance companies are expecting such tight margins what can be done?
Matt.
This is the same for all insurance repairs not just bodyshop damage. My feelings about the actions of insurance companies are violently negative.
Lets put it thus: What other commodity are you forced to purchase by law, but the supply of which is then controlled by a cartel?
Twunts the lot of them.
(Note l have privately put my car in for a complete respray and renovation...due to additional problems encountered it is a week and a half overdue, however they said they wanted to get it just right and for me its better late than botched... as it would be if they had the insurance company breathing down their necks...)
Lets put it thus: What other commodity are you forced to purchase by law, but the supply of which is then controlled by a cartel?
Twunts the lot of them.
(Note l have privately put my car in for a complete respray and renovation...due to additional problems encountered it is a week and a half overdue, however they said they wanted to get it just right and for me its better late than botched... as it would be if they had the insurance company breathing down their necks...)
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the insurance industry made a general loss the last 2-3 years runnings.
Its because everyone is jumping on the personal injury bandwagon. Many, many people are making personal injury claims for wipelass,back probelms etc that can't be proven to be wrong by a doctors. Each claim is around 7K I believe - and lots are people are simply staging them.
BTW I have no love for the insurance companies. You got to have it, and when you need it , they don't give you anything.
Its because everyone is jumping on the personal injury bandwagon. Many, many people are making personal injury claims for wipelass,back probelms etc that can't be proven to be wrong by a doctors. Each claim is around 7K I believe - and lots are people are simply staging them.
BTW I have no love for the insurance companies. You got to have it, and when you need it , they don't give you anything.
This is a problem indeed. Whenever anyone I know is involved in an accident the first reaction is to hold their neck and cry compensation, which is funding a whole army of hangers on extorting money from the insurance companies. Legislation is also killing the trade, whilst industry in genral pumps out shitloads of pollutants, the bodyshop has to measure the Volitile Organic content of the paint solvents etc they use and record it. The complexities of modern vehicles also shove the price up, we used to reshell an escort MK2 in a day. it would take that to move the loom on a focus. All this makes margins tight for the bodyshops and leaves little for the insurance companies. They didn,t make money on car insurance for the last two to three years and bearing in mind my pension and I suspect many of yours is affected by this I would like to see reality set in for all and to tell the personal injuries trade to get stuffed. This is the big drain. For a slight knock up the arse it is a grand for injury plus costs. The repair can be as low as 500.The insurance companies can only squeeze the body shop and the person who pays the premium.
The compensation culture is what I blame me having to pay £1800 insurance on a gp9 car worth £500...
Well, that and the fact that I'm 21, and male...
The 'statistical likeness that women are going to have less accidents' leading to companies like 'Diamond Insurance' covering women only is absolute tosh imho, I've seen lasses aged 17-19 tearing round in cars that they've insured for (on average) 30% less than a lad of the same age. Just because the statistics say women are less likely to have an accident doesn't mean it ain't going to happen.
Add to that they never release the cross section of the statistics they base their insurance assessments on. (probably 85% of 65-75 year old dears most likely!)
When I was 18, I bought a 1.3 Rover 213S, the car cost me £50 and it was a first banger to see me round the doors and for me to learn mechanical stuff on. It never got on the road because the insurance was going to be a MINIMUM of £1000.
Even now - with some NCB, no accident history etc - to renew the policy on my car will set me back around £1400...
ON A £500 CAR!
They're having a laugh now, T2000 want us off the road (speed cameras and yellow paint? nuff said), the goverment want us off the road (through fuel duty etc), the insurance companies appear to want us off the road (though monster fees).
I feel like going out and cutting down a tree - one less for the ba
ds to bloody hug!! 
Well, that and the fact that I'm 21, and male...
The 'statistical likeness that women are going to have less accidents' leading to companies like 'Diamond Insurance' covering women only is absolute tosh imho, I've seen lasses aged 17-19 tearing round in cars that they've insured for (on average) 30% less than a lad of the same age. Just because the statistics say women are less likely to have an accident doesn't mean it ain't going to happen.
Add to that they never release the cross section of the statistics they base their insurance assessments on. (probably 85% of 65-75 year old dears most likely!)
When I was 18, I bought a 1.3 Rover 213S, the car cost me £50 and it was a first banger to see me round the doors and for me to learn mechanical stuff on. It never got on the road because the insurance was going to be a MINIMUM of £1000.
Even now - with some NCB, no accident history etc - to renew the policy on my car will set me back around £1400...
ON A £500 CAR!
They're having a laugh now, T2000 want us off the road (speed cameras and yellow paint? nuff said), the goverment want us off the road (through fuel duty etc), the insurance companies appear to want us off the road (though monster fees).
I feel like going out and cutting down a tree - one less for the ba
ds to bloody hug!!
CB-Dave said:
The 'statistical likeness that women are going to have less accidents' leading to companies like 'Diamond Insurance' covering women only is absolute tosh
Maybe so, but I spent some time two weeks ago phoning round for insurance on my wife's new Boxster. Every other performance insurance company was quoting £1100 - £1200 for both of us to drive, Diamond quoted £920 with protected no claims, legal cover, car hire etc etc. Given the consistency of the other quotes, I'm tempted to think that Diamond really does find the average costs of insuring women to be lower than for a wider population.
Anyone see that report in the Telegraph motoring section a few weeks back about men and women and their attitudes towards their cars? Basically, men are 'more likely' to have an accident because they like to test the car's limits (Petrolheads call this 'driving'). Women use it as an extention to the house - a place to keep things in - which explains the s**t all over the dashboards in people carriers. Women also say they can 'multi-task' and men can't, but as far as I can see, 'multi-tasking' means being able to hold a phone conversation and paint your toenails whilst piloting your crummy city-automatic round roundabouts. Technically, Diamond Insurance is as sexist as women-only voting shortlists, but of course we can't take anyone to court for discrimination, 'cos sexism in men is known as 'chauvenism'. Bastards the lot of them. It's not only Diamond either - look in the back of Top Gear magazine and you'll find page after page of statistics-led excuses to portray men as dinosaurs who can't drive.
Let's face it the insurance companies made the situation originally by literally forcing the bodyshops to charge ridiculous amounts for repairs. There must have been some logic in it somewhere but god knows where and now they complain about it. Similarly the bodyshops must have made a good living by chrging what the insurance companies forced them to charge so why should they complain now that their main paymasters want to pay them less. Just like the Lloyds syndicate members that were happy enough to take vast profits in the good years and then want the rest of the country to bail them out when things get tough. The usual rule of "if you've got the dosh and invest, be prepared to lose" applies. Then insurance companies say there is no profit in motor insurance, if that's the case why do they do it. I don't know of any insurance company that's run a s a charity and if they are so useless at running a business why don't they try something else (maybe shelf stacking) and get into the real world.
I`m a panel beater/ sprayer myself and have been in the tade for 17 years.
The insurance companies are, IMHO, shooting themselves in the foot!! They force bodyshops to pay for, service and supply courtesy cars to their customers. They insist you waive storage charges if you become an `approved repairer`, they then `promise` to provide you with plenty of work (35 cars a week, for eg.), then insist they have priority over other ins. companies- they all do this so everyones work is important!!
They then expect you to agree a labour figure based on that volume, and let me tell you, £20 an hour is a high figure! One insurance co. was paying £14 an hour when I left the retail market 2 years ago!
Legislation then forces bodyshops to reduce their emmissions more and more (not a bad thing, granted, but very expensive!!). Modern cars need specialised training, laser jigs, geometry equipment etc.
Siteing a bodyshop is also very difficult, nobody wants sprayers at the bottom of their garden!
Out of a labour figure of say £20, a trainee will expect £5 minimum and a skilled man has gotta be worth £12- £14. Thats assuming the job is done in the agreed hours, he then has to pay overheads, training,etc. then if he`s lucky there might be some profit to pay for updating/ replacing equipment, admin wages then maybe pay himself a wage!!
Body repair is now a very skilled job, but no-one wants to come into the trade as there`s no money in it!
Bodyshops are closing because they arent able to do the work to a reasonable profit, meaning less and less places will be doing the insurers work. this means sooner or later there will be a monopoly held by a few very large bodyshop franchises and the insurance companies will be held to ransom- You guessed it, another hike in premiums for us!!
I left the retail sector and am now in the fleet refurbishment market which pays half as much again as crash repairs, due to leasing companies having such a strangle hold on the market.
It`s easy to knock bodyshops but if I had the £1-£2million it costs nowadays to set up, I would definitely invest it into something else!!!
The insurance companies are, IMHO, shooting themselves in the foot!! They force bodyshops to pay for, service and supply courtesy cars to their customers. They insist you waive storage charges if you become an `approved repairer`, they then `promise` to provide you with plenty of work (35 cars a week, for eg.), then insist they have priority over other ins. companies- they all do this so everyones work is important!!
They then expect you to agree a labour figure based on that volume, and let me tell you, £20 an hour is a high figure! One insurance co. was paying £14 an hour when I left the retail market 2 years ago!
Legislation then forces bodyshops to reduce their emmissions more and more (not a bad thing, granted, but very expensive!!). Modern cars need specialised training, laser jigs, geometry equipment etc.
Siteing a bodyshop is also very difficult, nobody wants sprayers at the bottom of their garden!
Out of a labour figure of say £20, a trainee will expect £5 minimum and a skilled man has gotta be worth £12- £14. Thats assuming the job is done in the agreed hours, he then has to pay overheads, training,etc. then if he`s lucky there might be some profit to pay for updating/ replacing equipment, admin wages then maybe pay himself a wage!!
Body repair is now a very skilled job, but no-one wants to come into the trade as there`s no money in it!
Bodyshops are closing because they arent able to do the work to a reasonable profit, meaning less and less places will be doing the insurers work. this means sooner or later there will be a monopoly held by a few very large bodyshop franchises and the insurance companies will be held to ransom- You guessed it, another hike in premiums for us!!
I left the retail sector and am now in the fleet refurbishment market which pays half as much again as crash repairs, due to leasing companies having such a strangle hold on the market.
It`s easy to knock bodyshops but if I had the £1-£2million it costs nowadays to set up, I would definitely invest it into something else!!!
Right - now we need Petrolhead insurance - I can picture it now: Only engines over 100bhp, regular track days improve your driving and bring premiums down, no MPVs, no off-roaders, no diesels (unless Lotus bring that Ecos thing out), no bolt-on-boy hatchbacks, no city cars, no Korean wardrobes... getting my drift? - oh, and NO DISCRIMINATION between women and men. I'm sure this company exists, I just have to find it...
Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff