EU to delay ICE car ban until 2040
Discussion
https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/9999/eu-to-delay-pet...
Potentially interesting development if true, will the UK government follow suit and delay from 2030 to 2035 or even 2040?
Potentially interesting development if true, will the UK government follow suit and delay from 2030 to 2035 or even 2040?
It's like a big old game of chinese whispers 
The earlier stories were reporting about the potential allowance of e-fuels / low carbon fuels beyond 2035 (i.e. not boggo basic Diesel or petrol), this Carwow story thought that level of nuance was incidental so didn't bother to include!
I really can't see the UK doing anything with this as we have no need to change course.
The earlier stories were reporting about the potential allowance of e-fuels / low carbon fuels beyond 2035 (i.e. not boggo basic Diesel or petrol), this Carwow story thought that level of nuance was incidental so didn't bother to include!
I really can't see the UK doing anything with this as we have no need to change course.
There's literally no point in having the EV industry with China having 3000 coal fired power stations.
When you think about it the whole thing is a bait and switch.
The west sacrifice their whole car building industry. Cheap Government subsidised crappy Chinese EV dealers popping up like Turkish Barbers all whilst China are still building NEW coal powered power stations. Idea totally crazy we needed to stop it all and sanction China into reducing emissions.
All that's going to happen is China will be the world's car supplier and eventually ratchet prices up once the last VW plant uses closed.
When you think about it the whole thing is a bait and switch.
The west sacrifice their whole car building industry. Cheap Government subsidised crappy Chinese EV dealers popping up like Turkish Barbers all whilst China are still building NEW coal powered power stations. Idea totally crazy we needed to stop it all and sanction China into reducing emissions.
All that's going to happen is China will be the world's car supplier and eventually ratchet prices up once the last VW plant uses closed.
Saw this covered by Scottish Car Clan on YouTube.
The 2035 Engine Ban Is About To Collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OucjJR2swi4
My initial thought was if the provision is ICE can continue but only if using sustainable fuels/efuels will there be enough production for all the existing ICE or will it mean limited supply which would effectively lead to higher price per gallon and price out normal folk?
Afaik sustainable fuel and efuels (e.g. Porsche's initiative) produce synthetic fuel from greener sources than oil refinement so may have implications on older engine/fuel system compatibility like ethanol does that can degrade some materials quicker than others? i.e. they may game the system so only new ICE cars have the right materials in the engine bay to cope with the new fuels, allowing historic ICE to wither as traditional petrol supplies dwindle due to falling demand and tax incentives to move to greener transport options.
So I'm not hopeful the governments of UK and Europe will do the right thing if they only want to appease the local car makers that are kicking up the fuss, who will only be interested in selling new vehicles not ensuring old ones remain supported.
The 2035 Engine Ban Is About To Collapse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OucjJR2swi4
My initial thought was if the provision is ICE can continue but only if using sustainable fuels/efuels will there be enough production for all the existing ICE or will it mean limited supply which would effectively lead to higher price per gallon and price out normal folk?
Afaik sustainable fuel and efuels (e.g. Porsche's initiative) produce synthetic fuel from greener sources than oil refinement so may have implications on older engine/fuel system compatibility like ethanol does that can degrade some materials quicker than others? i.e. they may game the system so only new ICE cars have the right materials in the engine bay to cope with the new fuels, allowing historic ICE to wither as traditional petrol supplies dwindle due to falling demand and tax incentives to move to greener transport options.
So I'm not hopeful the governments of UK and Europe will do the right thing if they only want to appease the local car makers that are kicking up the fuss, who will only be interested in selling new vehicles not ensuring old ones remain supported.
Politicians generally object to common sense. It would appear, for once, even in the sclerotic E.U they have had to concede.
How long before our "so called " energy secretary admits that his green agenda is dead and buried. I for one will not be holding my breath. Comparisons with the band on the Titanic spring to mind.
I would bet that the atmosphere in Mr.Clarksons pub in the cotswolds will be pretty euphoric tonight.
How long before our "so called " energy secretary admits that his green agenda is dead and buried. I for one will not be holding my breath. Comparisons with the band on the Titanic spring to mind.
I would bet that the atmosphere in Mr.Clarksons pub in the cotswolds will be pretty euphoric tonight.
I have a feeling the EU will bring in their fuel inducement system idea as part of the detail on their proposal. This won’t allow post 2035 ICE / hybrid cars to operate on non low / zero carbon fuels. This makes it one hell of a headache for manufacturers and fuel distribution networks alike and will be so costly to implement that ZEVs will look like the better option.
The problem is that we will fall further and further behind the slower we make this change. We are trying to cling to the past and that is always counterproductive.
I know people keep mentioning Chinese coal fired power stations. That misses the point. The Chinese are transitioning to clean power and to EV production faster then we are.
We are heading in the same direction; they are getting their faster. We need to change faster, not even more slowly.
I know people keep mentioning Chinese coal fired power stations. That misses the point. The Chinese are transitioning to clean power and to EV production faster then we are.
We are heading in the same direction; they are getting their faster. We need to change faster, not even more slowly.
The Chinese are powering their industry using coal though. A simple legislation change is needed which would be a CO2 production value that ties in with the tailpipe emissions to calculate new car tax. The UK Government have the envy tax of about £5000 or whatever it is on so called prestige cars now why don't they change this levy to centre on the environmental production cost so that Chinese EVs will be correctly priced based on the actual true cost to everyone of their construction not just the crazily cheap Government subsidised prices we have in UK showrooms?
It just seems like total madness that we are doing two things at the same time here we are giving up our car production businesses in the west to China because of the switch to EV. At the same time we are becoming more reliant on China to supply a lot of the raw materials to kill our car industry with. I mean you have to hand it to the Chinese they are absolutely having it off with the western world at the moment. They know we are addicted to the cheap goods to hide our deteriorating cost of living and now we are in a spiral where people can't afford to pay the true actual cost of consumer goods any more. China are taking over the world by stealth and weirdly only one orange American man has done anything at all about it.
It just seems like total madness that we are doing two things at the same time here we are giving up our car production businesses in the west to China because of the switch to EV. At the same time we are becoming more reliant on China to supply a lot of the raw materials to kill our car industry with. I mean you have to hand it to the Chinese they are absolutely having it off with the western world at the moment. They know we are addicted to the cheap goods to hide our deteriorating cost of living and now we are in a spiral where people can't afford to pay the true actual cost of consumer goods any more. China are taking over the world by stealth and weirdly only one orange American man has done anything at all about it.
fridaypassion said:
The Chinese are powering their industry using coal though.
$625 bill in green energy installation in one year, the largest producer of green energy in the world, the fastest movement away from fossil fuels in the worldhttps://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
Dave Hedgehog said:
fridaypassion said:
The Chinese are powering their industry using coal though.
$625 bill in green energy installation in one year, the largest producer of green energy in the world, the fastest movement away from fossil fuels in the worldhttps://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
Dave Hedgehog said:
$625 bill in green energy installation in one year, the largest producer of green energy in the world, the fastest movement away from fossil fuels in the world
https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
Over 80% of China's energy production is from fossil fuels. https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
Dave Hedgehog said:
$625 bill in green energy installation in one year, the largest producer of green energy in the world, the fastest movement away from fossil fuels in the world
https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
They will be the biggest "everything" in the world though it's a 6th of the planet. They also run the most coal fire stations in the world and have the most that have been built in the last 5 years they burn 50% of the entire world's coal. https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
Also when they put Green stats out half of it could me made up as there is no oversight and accountability against the Government as the West have.
Edited by fridaypassion on Friday 26th December 12:31
Dave Hedgehog said:
fridaypassion said:
The Chinese are powering their industry using coal though.
$625 bill in green energy installation in one year, the largest producer of green energy in the world, the fastest movement away from fossil fuels in the worldhttps://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
"In 2024, coal accounted for approximately 59% of China's electricity generation. Other countries also rely on coal, but to a lesser extent. For example, India and the United States have significant coal use, but their percentages of electricity generation from coal are lower than China's"
They also use 50% of all coal worldwide each year.
TX.
Terminator X said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
fridaypassion said:
The Chinese are powering their industry using coal though.
$625 bill in green energy installation in one year, the largest producer of green energy in the world, the fastest movement away from fossil fuels in the worldhttps://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
"In 2024, coal accounted for approximately 59% of China's electricity generation. Other countries also rely on coal, but to a lesser extent. For example, India and the United States have significant coal use, but their percentages of electricity generation from coal are lower than China's"
They also use 50% of all coal worldwide each year.
TX.
It’s a topic that everyone always disagrees on, but IMO, the future should by Hydrogen.
You could argue that my opinion is biased as it will allow for the continued use of I.C.E. engines. However, it’s quick to refuel, many car manufacturers have already shown its capabilities and overcome any safety concerns.
The biggest drive for me though is that, not only can it be produced using low-carbon/renewable energies, once Hydrogen is further seen as a key power source with increased investment in it, it can be used as an energy source for so much more than just cars.
You could argue that my opinion is biased as it will allow for the continued use of I.C.E. engines. However, it’s quick to refuel, many car manufacturers have already shown its capabilities and overcome any safety concerns.
The biggest drive for me though is that, not only can it be produced using low-carbon/renewable energies, once Hydrogen is further seen as a key power source with increased investment in it, it can be used as an energy source for so much more than just cars.
I absolutely agree Hydrogen makes absolute sense . I wonder if the oil and gas producers actually pushed EV as they could see it would be taken up for a period of time before it was seen for what it is ,a total sham.
Disposing of batteries that have destroyed the planet in production is going to be an ecology disaster.
Whereas Hydrogen would really have taken the oil countries out .
Disposing of batteries that have destroyed the planet in production is going to be an ecology disaster.
Whereas Hydrogen would really have taken the oil countries out .
cliffords said:
I absolutely agree Hydrogen makes absolute sense . I wonder if the oil and gas producers actually pushed EV as they could see it would be taken up for a period of time before it was seen for what it is ,a total sham.
Disposing of batteries that have destroyed the planet in production is going to be an ecology disaster.
Whereas Hydrogen would really have taken the oil countries out .
sounds like you’ve done your research then. Disposing of batteries that have destroyed the planet in production is going to be an ecology disaster.
Whereas Hydrogen would really have taken the oil countries out .
Where does the hydrogen come from? How efficient is it?
ATG said:
Terminator X said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
fridaypassion said:
The Chinese are powering their industry using coal though.
$625 bill in green energy installation in one year, the largest producer of green energy in the world, the fastest movement away from fossil fuels in the worldhttps://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/china-ene...
stop reading the daily mail
"In 2024, coal accounted for approximately 59% of China's electricity generation. Other countries also rely on coal, but to a lesser extent. For example, India and the United States have significant coal use, but their percentages of electricity generation from coal are lower than China's"
They also use 50% of all coal worldwide each year.
TX.
TX.
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