Road pricing plans forge ahead
Minister admits road charging to be privatised
National charging plans "well ahead"
The seminar hosted by the IPPR was sponsored by Norwich Union, PriceWaterhouseCoopers and T-Systems, an international IT provider and part of Deutsche Telecom.
Plans for satellite road user charging inevitably raise Big Brother concerns, centred as the scheme is around satellite-controlled black boxes fitted to vehicles. These black boxes will know the vehicle's location, how fast it is travelling and on which roads. All this data will be recorded and used by private companies to charge drivers a tax for their mileage, based on where and when they travel, potentially with a commission for the work done.
The Association of British Drivers' (ABD) spokesman Mark McArthur-Christie said: "It seems that Mr Darling is determined to press ahead with his Big Brother mobility tax no matter what. He realises what a potential vote-loser this is, and is now using private firms to front, develop and manage the scheme for him."
The ABD's chairman Brian Gregory said: "This scheme has phenomenal implications for people's civil liberties. Private companies and the government will know exactly where they are every hour of the day and charge them for it. Of course, the in-car black boxes also open the door to instant speeding tickets and penalties for almost any other offence that can be dreamed up."
ABD comment
The ABD believes that the introduction of this mobility tax is mistaken, but not simply because of the implications for civil liberties. Demand for travel is inelastic - people need to travel for work, to commute, to see friends and families. This tax is based on the whole premise that people are able to change their travelling behaviour. Although there is potential for some commuters to switch to cycling and powered two wheelers for some trips, public transport is, in the government's own words unreliable, expensive and does not go where people want. The majority of travellers will simply have no choice but to pay up.
McArthur-Christie said: "We are extremely concerned about any tax that involves satellite and computer technology spying on citizens. When unelected and unaccountable private companies are involved, our concern grows still further. We urge Mr Darling to reconsider."
I thought it was supposed to be the Tories who were in the pocket of big business??? :cry:
I will one day buy a new car, yes, with one of your boxes in it, but I also have hands, hands that will rip that little black box out of my car.
Oh yes, you will make it a criminal offence to do so with punishment being far sterner than mugging an old woman and beating her to death for her pension money, but if enough of us do it, what are you going to do, jail us all ????
havoc said:
So the government, having spotted how unpopular this is, ignores it and takes step 2, which is to give contracts to their favourite companies to earn lots of our taxpayers money implementing something we don't want!!!
I thought it was supposed to be the Tories who were in the pocket of big business???
No the tories came up with good ideas unlike these Labourite T
Swab172uk said:
Try fitting one of your little black boxes to my car Mr. Darling, see how far you get.
I will one day buy a new car, yes, with one of your boxes in it, but I also have hands, hands that will rip that little black box out of my car.
Oh yes, you will make it a criminal offence to do so with punishment being far sterner than mugging an old woman and beating her to death for her pension money, but if enough of us do it, what are you going to do, jail us all ????
I totally agree with you, they're not puting one on my car either.
Thats the problem, they probably would put us all in prison for that.
Then they would raise taxes even more or find other stealth taxes to pay for us all being behind bars.
wab172uk said:
Try fitting one of your little black boxes to my car Mr. Darling, see how far you get.
I will one day buy a new car, yes, with one of your boxes in it, but I also have hands, hands that will rip that little black box out of my car.
Oh yes, you will make it a criminal offence to do so with punishment being far sterner than mugging an old woman and beating her to death for her pension money, but if enough of us do it, what are you going to do, jail us all ????
They'll just put cameras along the road side to read your plates and fine you each time you drive with out the box installed. Traffic wardens will carry gps detection equipment and clamp you each time they find a car that doesn't register on the system. They'll fine us all and get their money either way.
If they introduce this, i'm leaving the country!
havoc said:
So the government, having spotted how unpopular this is, ignores it and takes step 2, which is to give contracts to their favourite companies to earn lots of our taxpayers money implementing something we don't want!!!
I thought it was supposed to be the Tories who were in the pocket of big business???
Labour's old Tax and Spend policy is back then
What happens when you drive your car abroad? It will still be sending out signals, interferring with RF systems used in other countries. There would need to be a globally accepted standard.
Would the system be safe against cloning? Usually the Governments failure to crack down on root cause just means criminals develop new methods. The introduction of Gatsos and ANPR cameras has just led to the increase in vehicle ID theft.
I'd like to see the MPs tagged so we could see where they are at all times. Then we can see whether they are debating for us in Parliament, working in their constituency offices, or whether they are on slush lunches with donors, on jolly "fact finding" trips, or up to no good on Clapham Common. Lets see how keen they are on tracking systems then.
stenniso said:
I'd like to see the MPs tagged so we could see where they are at all times. Then we can see whether they are debating for us in Parliament, working in their constituency offices, or whether they are on slush lunches with donors, on jolly "fact finding" trips, or up to no good on Clapham Common. Lets see how keen they are on tracking systems then.
You can bet that MP's will be exempt citing National Security or some other nonsense!
simonpac said:
Try fitting one of your little black boxes to my car Mr. Darling, see how far you get.
I will one day buy a new car, yes, with one of your boxes in it, but I also have hands, hands that will rip that little black box out of my car.
Oh yes, you will make it a criminal offence to do so with punishment being far sterner than mugging an old woman and beating her to death for her pension money, but if enough of us do it, what are you going to do, jail us all ????
They'll just put cameras along the road side to read your plates and fine you each time you drive with out the box installed. Traffic wardens will carry gps detection equipment and clamp you each time they find a car that doesn't register on the system. They'll fine us all and get their money either way.
If they introduce this, i'm leaving the country!
If only they were effective at catching road tax & insurance dodgers now...
I could see the option being to rocket up the price of road tax, or voluntarily put a box in; with all new cars having a box fitted
See how well they get on with compulsory ID cards
first
jazzyjeff said:
No the tories came up with good ideas unlike these Labourite T
Er...like what exactly??!
Well for starters they did not stick sodding speed cameras everywhere, and they didn't shaft the working class to give everything to the peasants that blag of the social and don't work for a living!!!!!
metalmicky said:
Lets assume this happens from say the 1st of Jan 06, all uk registered vehicles will have a box fitted, So what happens when the French,German . Dutch etc drive over here?
Mike
Dunno, but getting a non-UK registered car might be one way around it. Or rather, two non-UK registered cars to get around insurance and whatnot. Still be cheaper though.
wab172uk said:No, they'll just give you a hefty fine that costs more than the road charging and speeding fines would anyway!
Try fitting one of your little black boxes to my car Mr. Darling, see how far you get.
I will one day buy a new car, yes, with one of your boxes in it, but I also have hands, hands that will rip that little black box out of my car.
Oh yes, you will make it a criminal offence to do so with punishment being far sterner than mugging an old woman and beating her to death for her pension money, but if enough of us do it, what are you going to do, jail us all ????
im sorry but this plan has already proved to be massivly unpopular, it will never get through, and if they keep on trying to push it they might as well give the Tories the keys to number 10 now,if they try and introduce this it will be Labours undoing and political suicide for Alistar Darling.
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