UK sports cars...
Discussion
Just reading this weeks Autocar story on the new Connaught - figures that grabbed me were "prices expected to be between £60-80K". Apparently they have 29 orders and hope to sell 100.
When Ferrari hopes to sell 5000 units in its latest 12 month period - it kind of puts 100 units into context.
However why is that whilst the UK can easily lay claim to the worlds centre of excellence for motor racing, and its technology, when it comes to big sports cars - super cars to rival Ferrari or Porsche - we suck?
Farboud, Noble, TVR, Mosler, Bristol, Invicta, MG SV all have examples of either failed promises, missed deadlines or simply over promised and under delivered.
Examples? Well the Farboud has yet to appear, as has the TVR 440 and Speed 12. Nobles M14 seems behind its original schdule and despite it being hailed as a Porsche 997 beater one can't imagine it will be priced anywhere near the 997's £58K starting price.
The Mosler, Bristol and Ascari all fail the price test when judged against most established rival from Porsche or Ferrari.
Then the Invicta and MG-SV tried to wow the public/media by majoring on the use of carbon fibre - but sadly both were over-weight, as well as over priced.
Does anyone build a decent big sports car in the UK?
When Ferrari hopes to sell 5000 units in its latest 12 month period - it kind of puts 100 units into context.
However why is that whilst the UK can easily lay claim to the worlds centre of excellence for motor racing, and its technology, when it comes to big sports cars - super cars to rival Ferrari or Porsche - we suck?
Farboud, Noble, TVR, Mosler, Bristol, Invicta, MG SV all have examples of either failed promises, missed deadlines or simply over promised and under delivered.
Examples? Well the Farboud has yet to appear, as has the TVR 440 and Speed 12. Nobles M14 seems behind its original schdule and despite it being hailed as a Porsche 997 beater one can't imagine it will be priced anywhere near the 997's £58K starting price.
The Mosler, Bristol and Ascari all fail the price test when judged against most established rival from Porsche or Ferrari.
Then the Invicta and MG-SV tried to wow the public/media by majoring on the use of carbon fibre - but sadly both were over-weight, as well as over priced.
Does anyone build a decent big sports car in the UK?
Yeah fair point about the Aston but my take on AM is that the old DB7 was too much a replication of the Jag XK and the new cars are either an expensive alternative i.e. Vanquish. Whilst the DB9 and V8 are very nice GT cars but hardly what one would call a sports car - in the driving dynamic sense.
nords said:So by your definition Chelsea is a Russian football club eh?
Phil, it's a difficult definition (ie does TVR still qualify with a Russian owner, is Aston a UK sports car (probably!)
Russian owner but based in England and with a high degree of British parts Lanpard, Terry, Cole, Duff, Wright-Phillips etc. etc. 
i.e. an English club. And... don't forget Tony Stelliga (who incidentally bought Marcos from a Dutch guy last year) is Canadian so why aren't people banging on about Marcos no longer being British?
>> Edited by richb on Monday 12th December 11:08
I think Porsche is making money and I'd reckon that Ferrari makes money if you took out its F1 spending.
The point is both Ferrari and Porsche are 50 year + businesses - so no question they have been commercially viable to have lasted such time.
Lotus just don't make sports car to take on the big hitters any more - content with the smaller market, and the Esprit proves my point, going into the mix with all the other UK compromises!
The point is both Ferrari and Porsche are 50 year + businesses - so no question they have been commercially viable to have lasted such time.
Lotus just don't make sports car to take on the big hitters any more - content with the smaller market, and the Esprit proves my point, going into the mix with all the other UK compromises!
richb said:
Phil, it's a difficult definition (ie does TVR still qualify with a Russian owner, is Aston a UK sports car (probably!)
And... don't forget Tony Stelliga (who incidentally bought Marcos from a Dutch guy last year) is Canadian so why aren't people banging on about Marcos no longer being British?
>> Edited by richb on Monday 12th December 11:08
Exactly - most football clubs are full of foreigners and those that aren't are usually not local to the town they're playing for! ;-)
jazzyjeff said:Not that I'm a Chelsea fan but they do have a fair number of Londoners (Lampard, Terry, Joe Cole, Glen Johnson to name a few....)
Phil, it's a difficult definition (ie does TVR still qualify with a Russian owner, is Aston a UK sports car (probably!)
And... don't forget Tony Stelliga (who incidentally bought Marcos from a Dutch guy last year) is Canadian so why aren't people banging on about Marcos no longer being British?
>> Edited by richb on Monday 12th December 11:08
Exactly - most football clubs are full of foreigners and those that aren't are usually not local to the town they're playing for! ;-)
p490kvp said:
The Mosler, Bristol and Ascari all fail the price test when judged against most established rival from Porsche or Ferrari.
Bristol does not rival Porsche or Ferrari. A Bristol owner would never be as vulgar as to invest in such ostentation.
Perhaps more to the point, being small isn't bad. As long as you manage costs and cashflow you stand every chance as lasting as long as the big boys. I'd suggest Bristol will last longer than GM right now!
TVR's are designed and built in Britain using mainly their own Uk built parts, Noble Design the cars here but manufacture them in South Africa. The only thing that isnt British is the owner of TVR so I'd say they were probably more British than Noble with their "American" Ford engines and Sith Ifrican Manufacturing plant.
Rich...P490KVP said:
Re: Bristol owner - you are of course right a Bristol owner is a strange breed to pay over £200K for something as lashed together as the Fighter!!
Lashed together? Although not to everyone's taste in terms of style, a Bristol will generally outlast its owner.
Each to their own though. I think if Bristol ever found that Ferrari owners were turning their backs on Maranello and heading for Filton, they'd just put up the price of the Fighter until those individuals couldn't afford them. Either that or just refuse to sell them. And hats off to them for that. In these days when anyone with a thick neck and some ball control can afford what they want, it's good to know that they may not actually be able to 'buy' what they want.
Ha you are a funny guy but on a serious note the Bristol Fighter is not in the same league dynamically or quality-wise as a Porsche or Ferrari.
Whilst I agree that any car seen cruising around Puerto Banus should immediately be struck off anyones list - so should the sight of screw heads in the cockpit, ill fitted windscreens.
The Fighters use of a generic V10 Viper motor makes the price even more unbelievable and proves that their is a limit to the foolish spending habits of even the richest footballers and their wives.
Whilst I agree that any car seen cruising around Puerto Banus should immediately be struck off anyones list - so should the sight of screw heads in the cockpit, ill fitted windscreens.
The Fighters use of a generic V10 Viper motor makes the price even more unbelievable and proves that their is a limit to the foolish spending habits of even the richest footballers and their wives.
P490KVP said:
Ha you are a funny guy but on a serious note the Bristol Fighter is not in the same league dynamically or quality-wise as a Porsche or Ferrari.
The Fighters use of a generic V10 Viper motor makes the price even more unbelievable and proves that their is a limit to the foolish spending habits of even the richest footballers and their wives.
I take it you own one of these cars then as you seem to know it inside and out? ;-)
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