Monday 9th December 2002

Government in Spectacular U Turn?

Is the Govt about to announce a £2 billion road building programme?

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[martinh]

Heard at the weekend that Bliar is about to admit 'several hundred' government targets including ones in education, health, law and order and of course transport are about be missed in quite spectacular ways. Increased use of public transport and decreases in the number of car journeys are both on the list of failures and there are likely to be many more U turns coming up. What I want to know is when do I get my money back - you remember all those taxes we paid to create the programmes to achieve all these targets - and who is going to resign............M

[richardcraig]

Now hold on until we get the "We had to increase fuel duty to pay for the £2 billion pounds of improvements we promised" announcement that will follow soon after.

[Size Nine Elm]

A £130m expansion of the A1 north of Newcastle, effectively making it a dual carriageway to Alnwick, 40 miles south of the Scottish border.

Arrgghhh.

So the Scottish Parliament finally made a decision and funded the dualling of the A1 from Edinburgh to the border.

And the government funds the dualling from Newcastle to Alnwick. Leaving 40 miles of godforsaken windy single lane NSL in between... Joined up government my arse.

[DTWD]

Why do I get the feeling we are going to be seing the words "Toll" above these roads!

Paul

[Froth]

Drop in the ocean.

The A1 between near Newcastle, Chester-le-Street and the Metro Centre is one of the most under-engineered roads in the country. I drive along it every morning with thousands of other people just hoping to get near 30 miles an hour. It takes me 40 minutes to complete a 10 minute journey - twice a day. Yet I suspect Labour could be in power for the next 50 years and wouldn't do anything about it.

£2 billion! The motorist accounts for 1/8 of all the governments income. We pay £41 billion a year just to suffer and be insulted with a £2 billion pound one off investment over x years. £2billion!!!!


AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

[the cat]

I know exactly what you mean about the A1, it's intolerable yet no one in London seems to care. It's because when they built the Metro Centre they didn't bother to improve the road network surrounding it and now the whole area is flooded. For the likes of me commuting into Newcastle it's excruciating!!!!!

[granville]

Froth, Cat - the money has been well and truly banged on by your good selves.

Fair game to our southern brethren, though; we're ALL in the sh1te!

Yes the A1 via Geordieland is a shocker; as is the overwhelming majority of the M62 (apart from the bit where you can always do 130 past Farmer Palmer's); as is the M61/M60 interchange; and the road direct from Hades itself - the hateful, malicious M6, pretty much everywhere along it's infernal length.

Froth - you're SO right; the dosh needed to solve this problem bears no resemblance whatsoever to the loot fleeced from road users.

It is abject state piracy. I feel just like too. We all do.

[Tony Hall]

Froth, Size nine elm, the Cat, pleased to see some Geordie lads on the site, I do the Cramlington, to Scotswood run every day, and get the backwash of the traffic proms on your side of the river. One point, to my memory, the roads around the Metro Centre have been upgraded (I think twice) since MC was started. Don't blame the Metro Centre though, it doesn't open in the morning until after the worst of the traffic problems have cleared. (9 or 10 am). The problems are simply too much traffic. The worst probs north of the river are at the junctions where there is a free for all which slows every body down, the gradient up to the Novohotel & the back up from the river crossing. There is also a major problem on Scotswood Road as traffic which cannot make progress south on the A1, turns off to Scotswood Bridge, blocks the roundabout on the north side so no one can make a east to west route across the roundabout. Even though their exit is free. (Traffic planners please note).

[DanH]

Whilst I sympathise about the A1, I notice they haven't planned anything for the M25, which is orders of magnitude worse.

[northernboy]

The M25 has been "improved" many times over recent years, while the A1 has pretty much been left as is.

It may well be better to spend the money on tax breaks for companies tha leave London than on widening the M25 again. When you have something approaching 10 million people in and around the M25, there's only so much you can do to keep traffic flowing.

Schemes which reverse some of the North's decline, by encouraging work to relocate up there, while improving that areas connections might well be the best way forward.

If you improve the M25, after all, you'll just overload the M4, M11, A12, A23, M40, and all the other roads around it instead.

[CarZee]

DanH said:
Whilst I sympathise about the A1, I notice they haven't planned anything for the M25, which is orders of magnitude worse.

There was a plan talked of recently for a large section of the M25.

I don't begrudge the northern scum their upgraded M1, M6 and A1 in the slightest because I know all too well how much they are needed. The M6 upgrade is obviously a damned sight more cost-effective than a worthwhile upgrade of the west coast mainline. The concomitant economic growth which this will lead to in the areas affected would be most welcome I'm sure.

That they're not taking the A1 dualling right to the border is bloody scandalous though.. sheesh - must be the population density round there that's the problem

Derestrictor - Speaking of Farmer Palmer on the M62.. talk about fall guy of the 20th century - I've driven past that farm many many times and everytime it raises a smile. To think that he probably has a 4 mile drive to actually get on the bloody motorway just kills me

>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Monday 9th December 18:40

[corozin]

I hear T2000 have already registered thier disgust at "a return to the old days of massive road building projects"

Well, I reckon that they should be happy, because even if T2000 reduce road traffic by 20% (say), these sections of road will still be fking congested once these road improvements have been completed.

I can't understand this "environmental impact" argument against road building... IMHO tarmac'ing the whole of Birmingham & South Staffordshire would actually be an improvement, roads or no roads!

John

[Froth]

Tony Hall said: Froth, Size nine elm, the Cat, pleased to see some Geordie lads on the site,

Like wise

Another problem us Geordies have at the moment is that Newcastle City Council has decided it's a good idea to make congestion worse in the Toon as they think it'll force us into public transport. Hence the growing number of bus lanes in the city centre. Also rumours that the traffic lights are being tuned in favour of pedestrians - although I've no idea if that's the case.

Why don't they understand we will never ever use public transport. We drive cars because we love cars, not just to get from A to B but to have fun! I'm determined never to set foot on another Bus or train again in protest. I'm not going to Durham again either while they continue with a conjestion charge on Sadler Street.

[The Engineer]

So thats a whopping big u-turn approx 250 miles of roads being widened.Buy the time its been in and out of commitee,court appeals etc the roads wont be any better than they are know. Remember the magic roundabout (M25),they have been improving it ever since its been built and its still no fg better than when it opened.This is just being done as an apeasment exercise as the election aint to far away and they are getting worried,if any government was to take the issue seriously they would spend the billions we pay in road taxes on the roads we drive

Rant over

[Bettyswollox]

I know we all welcome the widening of important motorways around England, I know what its like to travel ito Brum at any time of the day! But what also needs to be addressed is the fact that at the moment traffic with three lanes from north and south into Brum queue! Where are all the cars going to go with extra lanes? You can't get thousands more cars into Brum town centre any faster! the roads aren't wide enough or fast enough! So in 4 years time Bair will be telling everyone what a bunch of W***ers we all are because we pressured his government into turning a 3 lane highway into a 5 lane highway, so now instead of 3 lanes being stationary there are now 5? We really need investment in road education i.e. £35.00 fine if you are stopped and you don't have a copy of the highway code in the dash! How many times are we now stationary or waiting to pick someone up and wishing we had something to read? Then when you get road rage you can actually prove to the A***ole that just cut you up he was wrong because it says so in your little book ! Then we need subsidised park and ride vehicles of all sizes from motorcycles to stretch buses that run like clockwork so people can rely on them and also feel safe! With secure parking for our pride and joy!.... Soap box anyone....

[PetrolDave]

ALready the Govt have bowed to "Green" pressure and said the A303 through the Blackdown Hills will NOT be dualled - and that's the section with most deaths!

So a piece of paper saying "Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty" allows the Govt to carry on killing people!

[ATG]

Story on the BBC website, with wailing and gnashing of teeth from T2000 and their little friends...

Good points made about need to relocate businesses out of South East. Irony is that most of SE's businesses are in service sector and therefore far more easily relocated than manufacturing. Give it a while and we grey suited clones will work out the cost of living and quality of life is better outside the capitol.

What pisses me off with the debate in the media, govt, pressure groups is the polarisation of opinions. There is a need for both public and private transport. For all its problems, London does actually have a very sucessful public transport system. The tube is far from perfect, but its main problem is its success ... the enormous demands put upon it. When people are travelling within a densely populated environment (e.g. suburbs to city centre) proper public transport is a better solution than cars. Who wants to sit in a jam? Who wants to pay through the nose or spend hours searching for parking? In a city like London these are absolutely inevitable consequences of trying to use the car. The real question is WHY THE HELL IS URBAN PUBLIC TRANSPORT SO CRAP???

And most of the time I'd happily avoid motorway driving. Problem with trains is that they don't stop exactly where you want to go. You need your car at the other end of the journey, or a delivery truck if you're carrying freight. So instead of widening the M6, why not build a railway alongside it and run Euro tunnel type trains on it carrying cars and trucks? Shove a station every 40 or 50 miles along the line. For the price of a tank of petrol and the prospect of getting to my destination quicker, I'd buy a ticket.

[zumbruk]

If there was a station every 40 or 50 miles, you wouldn't get there any quicker...

Anyhow, £2bn is all of 3 weeks tax take from motorists. A drop in the ocean. They should be spending that every three months.

[v8thunder]

I wonder how much of this money will be spent on speed cameras, bus lanes, speed humps, traffic 'calming' bollards that spring up from no where etc. Surely Phony Tony isn't apeasing the motorist - there's something hidden in every one of these policies to increase the police state-like power of the government.

[campbell]

Are the goverment getting the money from blairs wifes good friend , i think his name is Crock the road builder.

Well im prity sure my are will see mothing of that money to make the roads worse.