RE: Turn that Engine Orrrf!
Wednesday 18th December 2002
Turn that Engine Orrrf!
Mummies' run to be targeted in anti-pollution move
Discussion
More stealth tax for easy to catch "offences", £50 fine for law-abiding citizens, where-as other difficult (read expensive) to catch criminals run riot.
And what about those who bearly have enough battery power to start the first time, never mind keep starting.
Can't see the council or traffic wardens coming out to jump-start the motors...
And what about those who bearly have enough battery power to start the first time, never mind keep starting.
Can't see the council or traffic wardens coming out to jump-start the motors...
Another example of authorities ignoring the scientific facts/truth. Only a few weeks ago on Top Gear Clarkson demonstrated that new cars such as the Saab 9-3 are so clever that in cities like Birmingham the air comming out of the exhaust is cleaner than the air going into the airbox so shutting of the engine actually harms the environment as leaving the engine running cleans the air!
This is irrelevant of course, because if I want to keep my engine running when I'm stationary it's got nowt to do with anyone else. If they want to hug trees and read the Guardian then by all means let them do so. BUT I DON'T, and shouldn't be forced to.
This is irrelevant of course, because if I want to keep my engine running when I'm stationary it's got nowt to do with anyone else. If they want to hug trees and read the Guardian then by all means let them do so. BUT I DON'T, and shouldn't be forced to.
Hmm, I wonder what happens to the cat temperature with the engine off. Oh, that's right it gets cooler. Do they work best when cold or when they are at 800 degrees? Have they thought this through? The first twenty seconds from start up are the worst for emissions - I'm sure their extensive studies in to this have shown that no one cares either way so what the hell, lets just fine people.
If they really cared about emissions we'd have 54mph min speed limits and 56mph max limits on all roads. We'd see some sort of government interest in new car mpg. We'd see advice about not using aircon and roof racks. We'd see "speed bumps" ripped up and investment in public transport. We'd see "anticipation" as part of the driving test and would be advised to coast down hills. They don't care. To be fair I don't care either, but then I'm not fining people on a whim.
You want lower immissions? Stop breathing.
If they really cared about emissions we'd have 54mph min speed limits and 56mph max limits on all roads. We'd see some sort of government interest in new car mpg. We'd see advice about not using aircon and roof racks. We'd see "speed bumps" ripped up and investment in public transport. We'd see "anticipation" as part of the driving test and would be advised to coast down hills. They don't care. To be fair I don't care either, but then I'm not fining people on a whim.
You want lower immissions? Stop breathing.
I must have read this report from a different angle to the previous posters, because it seems like a good idea.
No more inconsiderate brat-mobiles clogging up the roads around schools etc.
But i don't think by stationary they mean vehicles in traffic jams or waiting at junctions/traffic lights.
No more inconsiderate brat-mobiles clogging up the roads around schools etc.
But i don't think by stationary they mean vehicles in traffic jams or waiting at junctions/traffic lights.
What the law merans and what they'll fine you for can be two different things.
Is there an appeal procedure? I have my doubts....
Just more stealth taxes on the motorist. If I get one of these (which in all fairness I probably won't) I reckon I'll mow down the person giving it. Just to make a point.
Is there an appeal procedure? I have my doubts....
Just more stealth taxes on the motorist. If I get one of these (which in all fairness I probably won't) I reckon I'll mow down the person giving it. Just to make a point.
There is some cookies incharge of making some realy stupid ideas, correct me if im wrong;
If your ina que of traffic and your engine is truned off so you dont get a 50 quid fine, would it then be ok to use your mobile phone sice your not going to be a threat to other road users and you can be distracted cause techinaly your not driving????
Answers on a post card and please send them to the morrons at Darlington Councl :headbander:
If your ina que of traffic and your engine is truned off so you dont get a 50 quid fine, would it then be ok to use your mobile phone sice your not going to be a threat to other road users and you can be distracted cause techinaly your not driving????
Answers on a post card and please send them to the morrons at Darlington Councl :headbander:
your off track suggesting traffic light jams, lets keep to the facts ; its people parked at the road side.
15 yes 15! years ago, I stopped at a german border crossing while my MD went to sort out the business visa for bringing products in. the local police came straight over to get me to turn off the moter. it wasnt me but the guy in front. ; so its not a new idea.
I think its a brill idea. NO it wont help overall pollution, but I for one have breathing difficulties and walking in my village past a car thats parked up waiting for the mrs to get milk creates a local zone of pollution that can seriuosly bugger up my breathing. As to several cars outside local school ; forget it! its terrible. leaving an engine running when your parked is pretty useless. OK it can be cold, but we do get a summer! then theres noise pollution...
as to traffic light groans, I also regulary switch off at lights, and Im still started, and pulling away quicker than everyone else, and if your not first in the que, its so easy..
starter motors? forget it. Ive been doing this since the germany incident, and never changed a starter motor.
VW once made a jetta that would switch off if in nutral for >5 secs. then restart when 1st was selected. the mpg was 15mpg better than the equivilant jetta on the "urban" cycle, imagine the difference in the TVR or my old audi S4 pulling at best 25mpg...
sorry for the rant but Im getting alittle fed up coming to PH to see every idea/scheme or suggestion attacked without thought. I love cars and power, but Im not the only person in the world, and I can see others point of view occasionaly!!
15 yes 15! years ago, I stopped at a german border crossing while my MD went to sort out the business visa for bringing products in. the local police came straight over to get me to turn off the moter. it wasnt me but the guy in front. ; so its not a new idea.
I think its a brill idea. NO it wont help overall pollution, but I for one have breathing difficulties and walking in my village past a car thats parked up waiting for the mrs to get milk creates a local zone of pollution that can seriuosly bugger up my breathing. As to several cars outside local school ; forget it! its terrible. leaving an engine running when your parked is pretty useless. OK it can be cold, but we do get a summer! then theres noise pollution...
as to traffic light groans, I also regulary switch off at lights, and Im still started, and pulling away quicker than everyone else, and if your not first in the que, its so easy..
starter motors? forget it. Ive been doing this since the germany incident, and never changed a starter motor.
VW once made a jetta that would switch off if in nutral for >5 secs. then restart when 1st was selected. the mpg was 15mpg better than the equivilant jetta on the "urban" cycle, imagine the difference in the TVR or my old audi S4 pulling at best 25mpg...
sorry for the rant but Im getting alittle fed up coming to PH to see every idea/scheme or suggestion attacked without thought. I love cars and power, but Im not the only person in the world, and I can see others point of view occasionaly!!
S2002 - Well said!!!
Fair enough I don't turn my engine off at lights, but I don't believe in just sitting there with engine running.
This is something that really takes the piss. 1 minute they want us to stop behind bus stops in the middle of the road, stop for speed bumps, introduce more junctions / traffic lights etc, then the next they have finally realised that all these stopped cars actually produce pollution!!! Haven't they F
g realised that the best way to keep polution down is to speed up the traffic!!!
BTW the government don't want us to have more effecient cars as they would then get less tax from fuel, so they will charge us else were!'s
:rantstop:
Sorry guys one of the days!
Fair enough I don't turn my engine off at lights, but I don't believe in just sitting there with engine running.
This is something that really takes the piss. 1 minute they want us to stop behind bus stops in the middle of the road, stop for speed bumps, introduce more junctions / traffic lights etc, then the next they have finally realised that all these stopped cars actually produce pollution!!! Haven't they F
g realised that the best way to keep polution down is to speed up the traffic!!! BTW the government don't want us to have more effecient cars as they would then get less tax from fuel, so they will charge us else were!
's :rantstop:
Sorry guys one of the days!
Sorry to go all scientific but the fact is that the actual starting up of an engine causes a lot of extra fuel to be used up. I think you will find that in an average car you'd have to know that you were going to leave your engine running while stationary for 2 whole minutes before it becomes worthwhile to switch it off and start it up again.
Froth, good point, plus the fact that the fuel that car pumps out the back whilst it's starting is completely unburnt, hence extremely bad for the environment, not to mention highly carcinogentic (*sp?).
At least burnt fuel is mostly CO2, which there's plenty of, but pumping out pure petrol vapour is BAD news.
Remember that statisitc on Top Gear a few years back, about how spilling one drop of petrol on a garage forecourt creates more pollution than driving a porsche 911 X distance (I forget how far, but it was an impressive amount).
As for noise polution, whats louder? A few 1.2 litre corsas sat purring away, or a whole school run's worth of starter motors screaming at you?
At least burnt fuel is mostly CO2, which there's plenty of, but pumping out pure petrol vapour is BAD news.
Remember that statisitc on Top Gear a few years back, about how spilling one drop of petrol on a garage forecourt creates more pollution than driving a porsche 911 X distance (I forget how far, but it was an impressive amount).
As for noise polution, whats louder? A few 1.2 litre corsas sat purring away, or a whole school run's worth of starter motors screaming at you?
Froth said: Sorry to go all scientific but the fact is that the actual starting up of an engine causes a lot of extra fuel to be used up. I think you will find that in an average car you'd have to know that you were going to leave your engine running while stationary for 2 whole minutes before it becomes worthwhile to switch it off and start it up again.
Well said. I remember hearing that too. Actually to gain any significant benefit you need to then leave the engine off for 3 minutes. Is it worth it?
Is it also worth cooling the cat, and risking running the battery down? my car puts out so few emissions that I'm not turning it off. Ha, I get 50mpg, so stick that...
And I have heard of starter motors going. It's obvious that any high current application is going to cause wear & tear.
C
more petrol to start a car? sorry thats a myth thats been circulating for years. Ive stripped fuel pipes, and they squirt next to nothing on startup, a start that takes .5 of a second. I suggest you take a lookup of the toyota hybrid Prius, which is non stop starting and stopping itself.
as for school runs having 1.2 corsas, what?? try 3 litre mitsibishi shoguns and 4L range rovers. surely your aware of the standard 4x4 never going off road and used only for school runs? ask anyone here. apparently it makes the parents feel "safe"
AND it isnt 2 minutes, they park up for 10 -15 minutes while they watch there kid walk to the playground, and then chat to there houewife pals.
I dont know your credentials, but if VW and toyota are prepared to build full production cars that turn off engines, then I feel safe in the knowledge its beneficial, cheaper, and doesnt wear starter motors; which even if it did, its better than pollution and breathing difficulties. Point is, these cars are RUNNING outside SCHOOLS where LARGE groups of children are more likely to get lung damage than fully developed lungs in adults.
>> Edited by s2ooz on Thursday 19th December 10:03
as for school runs having 1.2 corsas, what?? try 3 litre mitsibishi shoguns and 4L range rovers. surely your aware of the standard 4x4 never going off road and used only for school runs? ask anyone here. apparently it makes the parents feel "safe"
AND it isnt 2 minutes, they park up for 10 -15 minutes while they watch there kid walk to the playground, and then chat to there houewife pals.
I dont know your credentials, but if VW and toyota are prepared to build full production cars that turn off engines, then I feel safe in the knowledge its beneficial, cheaper, and doesnt wear starter motors; which even if it did, its better than pollution and breathing difficulties. Point is, these cars are RUNNING outside SCHOOLS where LARGE groups of children are more likely to get lung damage than fully developed lungs in adults.
>> Edited by s2ooz on Thursday 19th December 10:03
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