RE: Ramming Speed
Friday 7th February 2003
Ramming Speed
Traffic is the biggest killer of teenagers. So what do we do? Buy more killing machines...
Discussion
Anyone seen that one about wearing a seatbelt? Features a hunched numpty gawping at white van man through her rear view mirror, she promptly ploughs into an Astra and kills her son, who isn't wearing a seatbelt. Surely the message should be 'watch the !£$&ing road'.
See what you mean about ugly cars - did anyone see that Top Gear feature with Ian Callum where he explained that, due to forthcoming Yank regulations, the DB7 was going to have to be turned into a tank. I suggest that, if you actually see any of these bureaucrats out of their offices, slice them in half with an unfedaralised 308GTB.
See what you mean about ugly cars - did anyone see that Top Gear feature with Ian Callum where he explained that, due to forthcoming Yank regulations, the DB7 was going to have to be turned into a tank. I suggest that, if you actually see any of these bureaucrats out of their offices, slice them in half with an unfedaralised 308GTB.
Anyone seen that one about wearing a seatbelt? Features a hunched numpty gawping at white van man through her rear view mirror, she promptly ploughs into an Astra and kills her son, who isn't wearing a seatbelt. Surely the message should be 'watch the !£$&ing road'.
I think the point is that her son kills her [the driver] as he was unrestained and butted her to death.
Can't disagree with "watching the road". Same goes for those silly little mirrors which allow the driver to observe children in seats in the back. Just asking for trouble, really.
I personally agree witht he comments about SUV's. I think they should be given a speed limit 10kmh below the posted in built up areas or double fines for speeding inside the areas, and be hit with extra licensing fees (On what would be categorised as Commercial/Heavy Duty AWD's, this would only apply if the vehichle is registered to a person who lives in urbanised areas as opposed to rural or the vehichle is listed as a business transport.) to cover extra damage induced by the vehichles on society by emissions and weight on the roads too.
Make the people who buy these bloody cumbersome, hard to see around, road enraged driven, fuel guzzling, heavy, inefficient vehichles for city use pay for THEIR damages. Performance lovers get hit HARD in Australia, but AWD's don't seem to suffer it. Hell, in America they're exempt from certain laws like emission standards and gaz guzzler tax.
Make the people who buy these bloody cumbersome, hard to see around, road enraged driven, fuel guzzling, heavy, inefficient vehichles for city use pay for THEIR damages. Performance lovers get hit HARD in Australia, but AWD's don't seem to suffer it. Hell, in America they're exempt from certain laws like emission standards and gaz guzzler tax.
golem said: I personally agree witht he comments about SUV's. I think they should be given a speed limit 10kmh below the posted in built up areas or double fines for speeding inside the areas, and be hit with extra licensing fees (On what would be categorised as Commercial/Heavy Duty AWD's, this would only apply if the vehichle is registered to a person who lives in urbanised areas as opposed to rural or the vehichle is listed as a business transport.) to cover extra damage induced by the vehichles on society by emissions and weight on the roads too.
Make the people who buy these bloody cumbersome, hard to see around, road enraged driven, fuel guzzling, heavy, inefficient vehichles for city use pay for THEIR damages. Performance lovers get hit HARD in Australia, but AWD's don't seem to suffer it. Hell, in America they're exempt from certain laws like emission standards and gaz guzzler tax.
You know I was thinking sort of along these lines the other day, in the same way that you need a HGV licence to drive a proper truck why not have like a 'mini HGV' licence for SUV's and the like. Just like a compulsary day course like the CBT test for 50cc bikes. After all a big lump like the ford explorer is a totally different experiance to driving a corsa in the test isn't it?
I found my Land Rover 90 easier to drive than my mums old metro (the corsa is pretty nice). The problem I had with the metro was that I have big feet which kept getting stuck under the fusebox, the Land Rover's pedals were far apart so there was no risk of pressing two at the same time which I did when doing emergency stops in the metro. I could drive the Landy in hiking boots and did most of the time.
I'm not saying BSM Corsa's be replaced by Land Rovers but I do think that people/learners should learn to go forwards, backwards, change gear etc etc OFF the public highway.
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see why it should be any different driving an SUV to a normal car, your sports cars are far quicker/more powerful than SUV's.
...........waiting for the comment about brakes
>> Edited by Graham.J on Sunday 9th February 02:59
I'm not saying BSM Corsa's be replaced by Land Rovers but I do think that people/learners should learn to go forwards, backwards, change gear etc etc OFF the public highway.
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see why it should be any different driving an SUV to a normal car, your sports cars are far quicker/more powerful than SUV's.
...........waiting for the comment about brakes
>> Edited by Graham.J on Sunday 9th February 02:59
Agree, SUV (sh1t ugly vehicles) need special licenses as they are mostly driven by mum's dropping the kids off at school and causing mayhem........and Graham - 
BRAKES!!!!! 
Mind you, there are SUVs and SUVs, a RAV4 ??!!! wtf!! and a Toyota Landcruiser are VERY different versions on the theme.
From my sports car perspective they are both PITA to see around, then again a FIAT Punto is hard to see around
BRAKES!!!!! Mind you, there are SUVs and SUVs, a RAV4 ??!!! wtf!! and a Toyota Landcruiser are VERY different versions on the theme.
From my sports car perspective they are both PITA to see around, then again a FIAT Punto is hard to see around
To see that some people are in favour of penalising certain drivers because of the type of vehicle they drive, in this case, 4x4 drivers, makes me pretty angry. This site usually has contributions from people who hate being dictated to by bureaucrats with speed scameras and so on, me included. But with some people, as soon as they can think of legislation that penalises someone else other than themselves, they are all in favour. Pathetic, selfish and mealy-mouthed.
Encourage pedestrians to avoid vehicles, surely more sensible.
Encourage pedestrians to avoid vehicles, surely more sensible.
Thats what I can't understand.
All these adverts usually contain some dopey fat kid, or some
wit bloke just casually wandering across the road not giving a jot about the car thats approaching.
The advert is usually accompanied by 'Speed Kills@ or some other muppetised saying. But never 'What the is that muppet doing in the road?'
This 'It's always the drivers fault' mentallity is whats causing this 'Pedestrianised Zone' throughout britain, where People believe themselves to be invincible to Traffic and that they have every right to walk down the road, and should a vehicle come within 200 meters they are doing something wrong!
GET THE F*CK OFF OF THE ROAD AND OUT OF MY F*CKING WAY!
Sorry, that hit a nerve slightly!
All these adverts usually contain some dopey fat kid, or some
wit bloke just casually wandering across the road not giving a jot about the car thats approaching. The advert is usually accompanied by 'Speed Kills@ or some other muppetised saying. But never 'What the
is that muppet doing in the road?' This 'It's always the drivers fault' mentallity is whats causing this 'Pedestrianised Zone' throughout britain, where People believe themselves to be invincible to Traffic and that they have every right to walk down the road, and should a vehicle come within 200 meters they are doing something wrong!
GET THE F*CK OFF OF THE ROAD AND OUT OF MY F*CKING WAY!
Sorry, that hit a nerve slightly!
And what is it with these people who think they can just cross the road at any point they choose and that all drivers should stop to allow them to do so! Particularly when they is a designated crossing point 2 METERS further down the road! Utter F*ckwits!
I saw some Ned do it to an HGV last week, Tuesday, when the snow was on the ground, I was sitting in the works van, watching this idiot make an HGV stop quickly so that he could cross the road, the idiot stood in the middle of the road until the driver stopped (which he only just managed to do) before giving him the bird
Why can't we brits have this J-walking law, which only permits crossing the road at designated crossings, and then put one at every street corner!
So much simpler!
Fcuking pedestrians!
I saw some Ned do it to an HGV last week, Tuesday, when the snow was on the ground, I was sitting in the works van, watching this idiot make an HGV stop quickly so that he could cross the road, the idiot stood in the middle of the road until the driver stopped (which he only just managed to do) before giving him the bird
Why can't we brits have this J-walking law, which only permits crossing the road at designated crossings, and then put one at every street corner!
So much simpler!
Fcuking pedestrians!
I agree, sod trying to give SUV drivers a different license because their cars are a bit bigger than the rest, the people who are hit shouldn't be in the road in the first place. Spend the money on trying to educate the little fs about how to cross a road properly.
USE THE FRIGGING PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS OR I'LL MOW YOU DOWN..................and calm.
s about how to cross a road properly. USE THE FRIGGING PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS OR I'LL MOW YOU DOWN..................and calm.Just realised there is "two" of these threads.
If you actually look at the NCAP tests, my X5 got a single star for pedestrian impact (on the newer 'stringent' pedestrian tests). Looking at other SUV's - they vary between zero and 3 stars.
BUT, most suprising is that a large number of "normal" cars get zero or one star. Conculsion - my X5 is no better and no worse than a large chunk of "normal" cars - so why this "all 4x4 drivers need to have a different license???"
Results are at www.euroncap.com/results.htm if you want to look at it yourself - remember the pedestrian tests have changed though - so you can only compare blue stars with blue stars, or green with green.
J
If you actually look at the NCAP tests, my X5 got a single star for pedestrian impact (on the newer 'stringent' pedestrian tests). Looking at other SUV's - they vary between zero and 3 stars.
BUT, most suprising is that a large number of "normal" cars get zero or one star. Conculsion - my X5 is no better and no worse than a large chunk of "normal" cars - so why this "all 4x4 drivers need to have a different license???"
Results are at www.euroncap.com/results.htm if you want to look at it yourself - remember the pedestrian tests have changed though - so you can only compare blue stars with blue stars, or green with green.
J
I personally hate SUVs. I think they give you little for what they cost, and I have no desire to own one.
However.... someone driving a Prescott family car (Micra 1.1) may look at us driving our nice little sports cars and comment on how they guzzle fuel, are too fast to be driven on little British roads, and wish that the government would ban all of them.
What about lorries? Delivery vans? Maybe we should just ban all cars and go back to horses?
Sorry for getting carried away...
However.... someone driving a Prescott family car (Micra 1.1) may look at us driving our nice little sports cars and comment on how they guzzle fuel, are too fast to be driven on little British roads, and wish that the government would ban all of them.
What about lorries? Delivery vans? Maybe we should just ban all cars and go back to horses?
Sorry for getting carried away...
Graham.J said: I agree, sod trying to give SUV drivers a different license because their cars are a bit bigger than the rest, the people who are hit shouldn't be in the road in the first place. Spend the money on trying to educate the little f
my experiences of walking around London is that you will still get run down even if you use a pedestrian crossing, saw several peds hit!
I was not advocating special licenses to combat dopey peds walking out in the wrong place, more of a 4x4s need different skills to normal road cars (I did 2 courses for 4x4s in the airforce and found them useful after my initial retiscence ) Too many people have these cars without understanding the dynamics behind them (as do some sports car owners admittedly, and i also advocate special licensing for them as well).
Bottom line is, you get your license for one particular vehicle (say a Ford Fiesta or Mini) then progress onto say a Landcruiser or TVR and you're not really prepared for this change unless you are aware of the change in dynamic behaviour a TVR will have over a Fiesta.
When I bought the GT4 after 25 years of driving many different cars of varying capabilities I still reckon it took me 6 months to come to terms with a powerful mid-engined car. Sure I could drive it fast but the last bit you need to be able to control is the bit that enables you to get out of the trouble you get into.
This is where the 4x4 people, sportscar, etc variations need tuition and licensing. I'm sure that if you did your driving test in an auto you are not allowed to drive a manual....no ? So why should you be allowed to drive a high-powered car or heavy 4x4 without being checked out that you are safe to do so.
I personally would welcome people being licensed to drive only certain types of vehicles, I am not qualified to drive a D9 Caterpillar but I am allowed to get behind the wheel of any car (even if it might be a Porsche 917 with a couple of thousand HP!!) that doesn't mean I am capable of driving any vehicle, no matter how confident or good I think I am.
Thoughts ? too hard, too easy, too right, too wrong
(probably too wrong, sorry
) interesting points,but i dare say if a person drives too fast in a Ford Festa he will drive too fast in a 40 foot rig if he had a licence to drive it.Some people pay attention,others just blast through life making their own boundrys as they go.Its the people you have to educate,not the vehicles you should change.Its too complex to discriminate between types of vehicles,whats worse,getting hit by an X5 or by a Austin Princess!
I agree with a number of points you've said, I'm looking at my first car being a Discovery (and yes it will get muddy, FREQUENTLY) IF I can afford the insurance somehow, mainly because a)I love greenlaning and miss going in my old 90 b)I need a towing barge to take the westi to the races.
You may all jump and say
17 and driving a big car like that, but I actually learnt to drive properly in my old 90, and used to drive my Series 3 quite a bit. I know it's different on the roads but I find small cars constricting for me and I don't really like it, if anything I feel claustrophobic being 6'3" with long legs (I know there are taller people out there but thats just me) but the fact of the matter is, I'm used to driving big cars (learnt the basics in a 2.0 Cavalier, moved onto a 2.6 Merc, Series 3 LR, LR 90, and a metro and corsa) but
I've been driving since I was 8 but I KNOW that I have NO experience on the roads which is what I'm waiting for on the 23rd of this month but I've got used to big cars and feel safe in them and more to the point I could park the 90 on a sixpence so I can drive it properly.
If being able to drive a Discovery required taking another test to prove I'm competant to then I wouldn't mind doing that, so long as the insurance was less.
I do agree that ALL 4x4/SUV drivers go on a 4x4 driving course but sadly the most off road most SUV's get is the kerb
>> Edited by Graham.J on Monday 10th February 01:54
You may all jump and say
17 and driving a big car like that, but I actually learnt to drive properly in my old 90, and used to drive my Series 3 quite a bit. I know it's different on the roads but I find small cars constricting for me and I don't really like it, if anything I feel claustrophobic being 6'3" with long legs (I know there are taller people out there but thats just me) but the fact of the matter is, I'm used to driving big cars (learnt the basics in a 2.0 Cavalier, moved onto a 2.6 Merc, Series 3 LR, LR 90, and a metro and corsa) but I've been driving since I was 8 but I KNOW that I have NO experience on the roads which is what I'm waiting for on the 23rd of this month but I've got used to big cars and feel safe in them and more to the point I could park the 90 on a sixpence so I can drive it properly.
If being able to drive a Discovery required taking another test to prove I'm competant to then I wouldn't mind doing that, so long as the insurance was less.
I do agree that ALL 4x4/SUV drivers go on a 4x4 driving course but sadly the most off road most SUV's get is the kerb
>> Edited by Graham.J on Monday 10th February 01:54
Cheers Paws, I've been waiting soooooo long to turn 17 and now it's only 13 days away 
if I feel well enough the car (corsa - better than nothing) will be running with 'L' plates on before midnight on the 22nd ready to go out with mum as the clock turns to the 23rd 
Also if I'm well enough I want to do pass plus and IAM this year too, and skidpan training.
if I feel well enough the car (corsa - better than nothing) will be running with 'L' plates on before midnight on the 22nd ready to go out with mum as the clock turns to the 23rd Also if I'm well enough I want to do pass plus and IAM this year too, and skidpan training.
Speaking of the long-lost Green Cross Code Man (and let's not forget his furry mate, Tufty) have you seen the current adverts aimed at teaching kids how to cross the road?
They feature two cartoon hedgehogs singing advice to the tune of that 1970's Bee Gee's classic "Staying Alive", or, in the other ad, the 1980's Proclaimers' (and God only knows who else before that) hit "King of the Road".
Man, they are just so in touch with today's kids...
Oh yeah, and the last time I saw one of these ads was in the middle of a programme I'd taped off Channel 4 at about 2.30am.
They feature two cartoon hedgehogs singing advice to the tune of that 1970's Bee Gee's classic "Staying Alive", or, in the other ad, the 1980's Proclaimers' (and God only knows who else before that) hit "King of the Road".
Man, they are just so in touch with today's kids...
Oh yeah, and the last time I saw one of these ads was in the middle of a programme I'd taped off Channel 4 at about 2.30am.
I did an 'off-road' day in an Land-Rover series 3 90 when I was 17 and I can certainly say it was the first time I felt totally 'in control' of a car - no power steering or other numpty aids to take concentration away from driving. I think one of the dangers of driving a modern SUV on the road is the extreme level of detachment the type of vehicle gives the driver. I've found, on the other hand, that drivers of 'proper' 4x4s (ie Landies) are far more considerate of other road users as they are more 'aware' of their own vehicles.
It's the same with most things, to own a Landy (proper one ie. Series vehicle or Defender) You really have to be an enthusiast to put up with the niggly bits so like us, they (most) are car lovers and not just numpties on the school run or in their weapon of choice.
(and Discovery's are amazing off-road I kid you not, not as good as a 90 but still damn good fun)
>> Edited by Graham.J on Tuesday 11th February 12:44
(and Discovery's are amazing off-road I kid you not, not as good as a 90 but still damn good fun
) >> Edited by Graham.J on Tuesday 11th February 12:44
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