JCB to buy Jaguar?
Discussion
GP News said:
The JCB construction machinery company is reported to have ambitions beyond the world of diggers and its chairman Sir Anthony Bamford has indicated that it might be interested in buying the Jaguar brand from the Ford Motor Company, if Ford was willing to sell Jaguar on its own.
Bamford's remarks came after JCB set a new land speed record for diesel cars at Bonneville salt flats in Utah, where Wing Commander Andy Green, the man who set the outright world land speed record of 763.035mph with Thrust SSC in the Black Rock Desert in October1997, recorded a two-run average speed of 328.767mph on Tuesday and then upped the record to 350.092 mph on Wednesday.
JCB remains a family-owned business but it is incredibly successful, emplying 6,300 people around the world in 17 factories. The company made 45,000 machines last year, had sales of $2.5bn and made a profit of $195m. The company has no history in automobiles but J C Bamford (Excavators) Ltd dates back to 1945 when Sir Anthony's father Joseph Bamford set up the business. It has enjoyed success in construction equipment but also in tractors.
Making the jump from tractors to sports cars may not sound very likely but one must not forget that Ferruccio Lamborghini began his career as a tractor manufacturer before setting up Automobili Lamborghini.
Bamford has a talent for unusual forms of publicity, establishing the JCB Dancing Digger display team to show the versatility of the products.
Bamford says that Jaguar would need to be downsized and believes that the firm should concentrate on its higher performance models, but he believes that the company has a long-term future, despite its losses and is interested in doing a deal.
And while it may be rather premature to make such predictions, one can imagine that JCB Jaguar would be a company with sporting intentions.
That would be interesting
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Friday 25th August 08:26
I think it would be good for Jaguar.
Putting my patriotic hat on, the only alternative to JCB (if Ford do sell) would probably be an Eastern company buying Jaguar and diluting the brand even more than the x-type has. JCB is a very successful manufacturing company who produce a lot of their items in-house - the land speed record breaker was developed to showcase their new engines. Plus, the Bamfords are definitely petrolheads when you look at the car collectionthey have so they are likely to develop some driver oriented cars which is what Jaguar should have always represented - along with the grace and space.
Just hope they don't paint them yellow!!
Putting my patriotic hat on, the only alternative to JCB (if Ford do sell) would probably be an Eastern company buying Jaguar and diluting the brand even more than the x-type has. JCB is a very successful manufacturing company who produce a lot of their items in-house - the land speed record breaker was developed to showcase their new engines. Plus, the Bamfords are definitely petrolheads when you look at the car collectionthey have so they are likely to develop some driver oriented cars which is what Jaguar should have always represented - along with the grace and space.
Just hope they don't paint them yellow!!
Or you could end up with a 3CX Drophead Coupe and an XKR with a back-hoe! The old joke of the Irish Lotto winner buying a JCBGT could even come true!
I think that this could really help return Jaguar to the fore. Get rid of the S-Type and that bloody awful re-bodied Mundano X-Type and come up with some proper luxury sports cars and grand tourers. JCB are a very competent company and I wish them the best of luck in their possible ownership of Jaguar...
I think that this could really help return Jaguar to the fore. Get rid of the S-Type and that bloody awful re-bodied Mundano X-Type and come up with some proper luxury sports cars and grand tourers. JCB are a very competent company and I wish them the best of luck in their possible ownership of Jaguar...
This is a tricky one...
Luxury car makers, especially one as small as Jaguar, wil struggle to survive without massive technical suport and parts sharing. That means being part of a bigger group.
The X type gets a bad press on here but some kind of competitor to the BMW 3 series is needed. Firstly it provides an entry point to Jaguar ownership. Secondly it provides volume which starts to justify platform options and component bulk buying that wouldn't be cost effective with smaller volumes. The 3 series is a very profitable car for BMW, without it they would struggle. Jaguar need something similar.
The fact is that JCB isn't part of a major automotive group so they'll imediately loose the technical support. Also any plans to ditch the X type will jepordise other models that partly depend on the knock on effects of this models existence.
Luxury car makers, especially one as small as Jaguar, wil struggle to survive without massive technical suport and parts sharing. That means being part of a bigger group.
The X type gets a bad press on here but some kind of competitor to the BMW 3 series is needed. Firstly it provides an entry point to Jaguar ownership. Secondly it provides volume which starts to justify platform options and component bulk buying that wouldn't be cost effective with smaller volumes. The 3 series is a very profitable car for BMW, without it they would struggle. Jaguar need something similar.
The fact is that JCB isn't part of a major automotive group so they'll imediately loose the technical support. Also any plans to ditch the X type will jepordise other models that partly depend on the knock on effects of this models existence.
I think there are probably quite a few suppliers shared between the likes of JCB and Jaguar - at the end of the day they both make vehicles, albeit very different ones. I used to work for a bearing manufacturer and both were customers, I guess the same may apply for brakes, steering and other components.
Also, before they were outlawed in F1 JCB and Williams were working together to develop a CVT transmission - very different applications, but presumably similar technology need so there may be more potential crossover than is expected.
Also, before they were outlawed in F1 JCB and Williams were working together to develop a CVT transmission - very different applications, but presumably similar technology need so there may be more potential crossover than is expected.
andyps said:
I think there are probably quite a few suppliers shared between the likes of JCB and Jaguar - at the end of the day they both make vehicles, albeit very different ones. I used to work for a bearing manufacturer and both were customers, I guess the same may apply for brakes, steering and other components.
Also, before they were outlawed in F1 JCB and Williams were working together to develop a CVT transmission - very different applications, but presumably similar technology need so there may be more potential crossover than is expected.
Also, before they were outlawed in F1 JCB and Williams were working together to develop a CVT transmission - very different applications, but presumably similar technology need so there may be more potential crossover than is expected.
You really don't seem to be thinking of car mass production.
Cross over means using the same parts, or very similar part, on hundreds of thousands of cars preferably across many different models.
What you are describing is collaborating on R&D and sharing supliers for similar technology but very different products. In the modern motor industry that just won't be enough.
cymtriks said:
andyps said:
I think there are probably quite a few suppliers shared between the likes of JCB and Jaguar - at the end of the day they both make vehicles, albeit very different ones. I used to work for a bearing manufacturer and both were customers, I guess the same may apply for brakes, steering and other components.
Also, before they were outlawed in F1 JCB and Williams were working together to develop a CVT transmission - very different applications, but presumably similar technology need so there may be more potential crossover than is expected.
Also, before they were outlawed in F1 JCB and Williams were working together to develop a CVT transmission - very different applications, but presumably similar technology need so there may be more potential crossover than is expected.
You really don't seem to be thinking of car mass production.
Cross over means using the same parts, or very similar part, on hundreds of thousands of cars preferably across many different models.
What you are describing is collaborating on R&D and sharing supliers for similar technology but very different products. In the modern motor industry that just won't be enough.
I know what you are saying, and have to agree to an extent. However, it certainly helps with reduced R&D spend if the technology it produces can be shared across more products, and sharing suppliers would certainly help in negotiations - JCB are pretty good at this already, if they could add the Jaguar volume it would enable them to put more presure on and get additional support from suppliers.
cymtriks said:
This is a tricky one...
Luxury car makers, especially one as small as Jaguar, wil struggle to survive without massive technical suport and parts sharing. That means being part of a bigger group.
Luxury car makers, especially one as small as Jaguar, wil struggle to survive without massive technical suport and parts sharing. That means being part of a bigger group.
Not necessarily a problem, as even those who are part of a group share with other groups. Ford for example have shared 4x4 components with Nissan, and people carrier components with Volkswagen, neither of whom are in the "Ford group".
It would not be a problem for JCB to source "behind the scenes" components such as gearboxes, steering racks and radiators from any of the major manufacturers, just as the specialist sports car manufacturers do. I would imagine Jaguar would need similar quanities to Lotus, who source components from a number of large manufacturers (eg Rover and Toyota engines both fitting in the same chassis).
A bigger problem is those parts which need to be differentiated to justify the higher price, and quite frankly this holds back an upmarket brand whether or not they are part of a bigger group. How many of us at one time have called the X Type a jumped up Mondeo for example in recognition of the common engines, chassis and switchgear? This in itself is a big problem to all luxury car makers because in all honesty mass produced cars, (even Mondeos,) are bloody good these days. You are therefore faced with "doing a TVR" and making your own switches (and engines) for the sake of differentiation but having a less reliable result, or borrowing from a major manufacturer and being called a "jumped up Mondeo". Can't win!
Edited by rick.e on Monday 28th August 15:26
Some more sources of the news items on the story. With these all running the story it seems a lot more serious.
www.ft.com/cms/s/87ab672c-32f2-11db-87ac-0000779e2340.html
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/
http://business.scotsman.com/index.cf
www.forbes.com/2006/08/24/jaguar-bamford-uk-cx_cn_0824autofacescan01.html
www.ft.com/cms/s/87ab672c-32f2-11db-87ac-0000779e2340.html
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/
http://business.scotsman.com/index.cf
www.forbes.com/2006/08/24/jaguar-bamford-uk-cx_cn_0824autofacescan01.html
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