Ripped Off By VW
Discussion
My Coil Pack went on my 2001 1.8T this week and as far as I am concerned I got ripped off by VW.
The original Coils which where in my car were version G. These coil packs are part of the VW recall set which where faulty. But because VW are only replacing these coil packs in cars which are registered on 2001 Nov - 2002 Dec, I got shafted.
VW now about the faulty Coil Pack sets which are out there, and they also now which serial sets that are faulty. Having this knowledge about the coil packs, and which one are faulty, VW should be replacing the coils by Serial Number, and not by the year of the car. What do you think?
Rant over. Not happy.
The original Coils which where in my car were version G. These coil packs are part of the VW recall set which where faulty. But because VW are only replacing these coil packs in cars which are registered on 2001 Nov - 2002 Dec, I got shafted.
VW now about the faulty Coil Pack sets which are out there, and they also now which serial sets that are faulty. Having this knowledge about the coil packs, and which one are faulty, VW should be replacing the coils by Serial Number, and not by the year of the car. What do you think?
Rant over. Not happy.
I am Diesel Group Engineering Manager for VW-Audi GMBH.
The manufacturer, not the UK retail division.
If your car is 5+ years old, for how long do you feel they should warrant everything?
They make extensive goodwill replacements for vehicles long since out of warranty.
To do this they check upon dealer servicing history. Has your vehicle been properly maintained within the franchised dealer network, please?
The manufacturer, not the UK retail division.
If your car is 5+ years old, for how long do you feel they should warrant everything?
They make extensive goodwill replacements for vehicles long since out of warranty.
To do this they check upon dealer servicing history. Has your vehicle been properly maintained within the franchised dealer network, please?
If you are wondering why I wrote "they" and not "we", maybe I should explain.
VW has no contract with you.
VW-Audi GMBH makes vehicles.
These vehicles are bought by distributors in each country. Some are wholly-owned subsidiaries.
The distributor sells the vehicles to franchised dealers.
The franchised dealer sells to retail customers.
If you bought your car from a franchised dealer, therein lies your contract, your goodwill and your replacements. That dealer will balance the cost versus a likely future sale to you.
If you bought outside of the franchised network, why on earth would they want to spend any money when it will be extremely unlikely that you'd buy from them in future?
VW has no contract with you.
VW-Audi GMBH makes vehicles.
These vehicles are bought by distributors in each country. Some are wholly-owned subsidiaries.
The distributor sells the vehicles to franchised dealers.
The franchised dealer sells to retail customers.
If you bought your car from a franchised dealer, therein lies your contract, your goodwill and your replacements. That dealer will balance the cost versus a likely future sale to you.
If you bought outside of the franchised network, why on earth would they want to spend any money when it will be extremely unlikely that you'd buy from them in future?
I am very sympathetic to what you are saying, sean, having owned a lot of VW's in the past and never having had anything approaching a problem. And I do think that car manufacturers do their best but there is a limit if they are to stay solvent. But you do sound awfully Teutonic. Is that company policy?
You didnt mention mileage which could have a direct bearing on this - my 99 Omega blew its coil pack a few weeks back - but I thought for 120k miles and 7 years thats ok. I had a VW passat 1.8T that was misfiring many moons ago when only a year old - diagnosed as faulty coil packs when this was THE big issue for all VWs. But even then the dealer only replaced the one that wasnt working - or thats what he told me anyway*
*but I had a lot of trouble with this car , by 1 year old had a new top end (cams, valves etc) to the engine, new timing gear (or some such), new induction, new turbo....all the VW stamped bits were replaced with Audi stamped bits and all my problems were solved. Took them 2 weeks to fix BTW as when they plugged the diagnostic puter in it produced many many pages and they didnt know where to start !
*but I had a lot of trouble with this car , by 1 year old had a new top end (cams, valves etc) to the engine, new timing gear (or some such), new induction, new turbo....all the VW stamped bits were replaced with Audi stamped bits and all my problems were solved. Took them 2 weeks to fix BTW as when they plugged the diagnostic puter in it produced many many pages and they didnt know where to start !
cardigankid said:
I am very sympathetic to what you are saying, sean, having owned a lot of VW's in the past and never having had anything approaching a problem. And I do think that car manufacturers do their best but there is a limit if they are to stay solvent. But you do sound awfully Teutonic. Is that company policy?
Sorry for this.
The point I'm trying to make is that the franchised dealer is just that. They have paid a lot of money to put a VW, Ford, Vauxhall (pick your name, other than Mercedes (wholly-owned) or GM-Daewoo-Chevrolet)sign on their site.
That dealer has their own company policy.
The loyalty of VW, Ford...etc is to that dealer. The dealer turns over £millions per year and the UK distributor supports them in the way that the dealer wants to run that business.
The manufacturer has little to do with the dealer's company policy.
Let me try and make it clearer.
If you go to Tesco's, the premises are owned by Tesco, the staff employed by Tesco, the stock was bought by Tesco.
If you go to your local franchised dealer, the premises are owned by the dealer, the staff employed by the dealer, the stock owned by the dealer. NOT by the manufacturer whose sign fronts the premises.
Bit of a con, really. The number of posts you see here where someone says "it's been back to BMW for servicing".
Let me tell you that BMW don't service cars any more than Ford, VW, etc.
All that's happened is the writer has taken his car back to the franchised dealer, who paid BMW for the franchise, so he can stick a big sign up and masquerade as BMW GB Ltd's own premises.
I make no real reference to any other maker in this post. You could substitute any maker for those I wrote, other than Merc and GM, as written, who actually do own their dealer networks.
Edited by sean5302 on Sunday 5th November 21:47
bigdods said:
You didnt mention mileage which could have a direct bearing on this - my 99 Omega blew its coil pack a few weeks back - but I thought for 120k miles and 7 years thats ok. I had a VW passat 1.8T that was misfiring many moons ago when only a year old - diagnosed as faulty coil packs when this was THE big issue for all VWs. But even then the dealer only replaced the one that wasnt working - or thats what he told me anyway*
*but I had a lot of trouble with this car , by 1 year old had a new top end (cams, valves etc) to the engine, new timing gear (or some such), new induction, new turbo....all the VW stamped bits were replaced with Audi stamped bits and all my problems were solved. Took them 2 weeks to fix BTW as when they plugged the diagnostic puter in it produced many many pages and they didnt know where to start !
*but I had a lot of trouble with this car , by 1 year old had a new top end (cams, valves etc) to the engine, new timing gear (or some such), new induction, new turbo....all the VW stamped bits were replaced with Audi stamped bits and all my problems were solved. Took them 2 weeks to fix BTW as when they plugged the diagnostic puter in it produced many many pages and they didnt know where to start !
Parts are made for manufacturers by many different OEM suppliers.
When faults are recognised in components made by one supplier, alternative manufacturers are used instead.
These may be badged Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc etc.
What will have happened here is that the replacements were from a different maker, or from an improved batch from the same maker.
I sympathise with your comments re. the dealer.
The whole point of VA5051 et seq is to make it easier to analyse problems rather than have to strip-down and analyse, problem solve and repair.
Fault logging is quite comprehensive but the results do require training and expertise to interpret.
VW UK holds many training courses at Milton Keynes. These are excellently attended by franchised dealers.
I dont think it was that they didnt know what the information meant from the puter...it was more the case that they had never seen so many faults on a car that still ran !
Anyway alls well that ends well that was a company car and once fixed was fantastic. One of my cars now is a VW Golf V5 and that's been rock steady all it cots me is servicing and the odd lightbulb :-)
Apologies for the thread hijack !
Anyway alls well that ends well that was a company car and once fixed was fantastic. One of my cars now is a VW Golf V5 and that's been rock steady all it cots me is servicing and the odd lightbulb :-)
Apologies for the thread hijack !
I could be wrong, but I think Sean has the wrong end of the stick.
The way I read it is that VW had a recall on a specific component on specific vehicles. Wayne feels his vehicle should be covered by that recall, but the vehicle misses by a few months - but does have the faulty part.
I always thought that if a manufacturer issue a recall, its the manufacturer that pays for the work and the new part, not the dealer. Why would a dealer underwrite the failings of a product made by the manufacturer?
The dealer is only refusing to help because they won't get their costs back from VW.
The way I read it is that VW had a recall on a specific component on specific vehicles. Wayne feels his vehicle should be covered by that recall, but the vehicle misses by a few months - but does have the faulty part.
I always thought that if a manufacturer issue a recall, its the manufacturer that pays for the work and the new part, not the dealer. Why would a dealer underwrite the failings of a product made by the manufacturer?
The dealer is only refusing to help because they won't get their costs back from VW.
We may be confusing things here.
The OP complained about a specific problem with a coil pack on a specific vehicle.
I could quote you all sorts of failure data, everything from bath-tub curves etc.
The coil-pack issue was well-documented and paid for by the manufacturer.
That did not mean that every coil pack, in every vehicle sold was given an eternal new-for-old swap whenever a customer requested it. We have detailed data of just which batches showed failure (and which didn't).
Coils are electronic components, subject to vibration, heat and solvent attack.
If the OP has a decent service history and the vehicle shows signs of care and reasonable maintenance, a decision is taken as to whether to offer a replacement.
We are generous in such circumstances. We want future custom. If the OP's failure was not a one-off I'd be interested to hear why he was refused.
With no reference to the OP, if someone buys an old nail from a bomb-site, with no service history and starship mileage which may or may not be on the odometer. He opens the bonnet for the first time in years, doesn't see the heavy oil leakage everywhere, some of which has covered the coil-packs and one of those packs fails, does that person expect new-for old?
A coil pack is a relatively cheap repair. We get complaints about people whose cambelts have snapped. They have no history of the belt being changed. Laboratory analysis reveals the belt to have covered double the change-life of 60,000 miles. The customer is then mortified at little or no help with the £2,000 bill.
The OP complained about a specific problem with a coil pack on a specific vehicle.
I could quote you all sorts of failure data, everything from bath-tub curves etc.
The coil-pack issue was well-documented and paid for by the manufacturer.
That did not mean that every coil pack, in every vehicle sold was given an eternal new-for-old swap whenever a customer requested it. We have detailed data of just which batches showed failure (and which didn't).
Coils are electronic components, subject to vibration, heat and solvent attack.
If the OP has a decent service history and the vehicle shows signs of care and reasonable maintenance, a decision is taken as to whether to offer a replacement.
We are generous in such circumstances. We want future custom. If the OP's failure was not a one-off I'd be interested to hear why he was refused.
With no reference to the OP, if someone buys an old nail from a bomb-site, with no service history and starship mileage which may or may not be on the odometer. He opens the bonnet for the first time in years, doesn't see the heavy oil leakage everywhere, some of which has covered the coil-packs and one of those packs fails, does that person expect new-for old?
A coil pack is a relatively cheap repair. We get complaints about people whose cambelts have snapped. They have no history of the belt being changed. Laboratory analysis reveals the belt to have covered double the change-life of 60,000 miles. The customer is then mortified at little or no help with the £2,000 bill.
If I recall correctly (having fallen foul of the coil pack failure nightmare on my TT whay must be several years ago now) there never was an official recall - coil packs were just replaced as they failed initially due to supply problems, and then as sets if one failed once supply was better. All the cars effected were under warranty.
If several years later a single coil pack fails, once you're out of warranty, I don't see what the issue is. It's a cheap part - it's hardly like you're being bent over a barrel is it? The fact it hasn't failed till now suggests to me that it wasn't a faulty one in that sense - just natural random failure. Every time you start the car the CP is put under stress, and everything wears through use - high mileage, lots of short trips or just random "bad luck" could all count towards this.
How much is a coil pack these days BTW?
If several years later a single coil pack fails, once you're out of warranty, I don't see what the issue is. It's a cheap part - it's hardly like you're being bent over a barrel is it? The fact it hasn't failed till now suggests to me that it wasn't a faulty one in that sense - just natural random failure. Every time you start the car the CP is put under stress, and everything wears through use - high mileage, lots of short trips or just random "bad luck" could all count towards this.
How much is a coil pack these days BTW?
sean5302 said:
If you go to your local franchised dealer, the premises are owned by the dealer, the staff employed by the dealer, the stock owned by the dealer. NOT by the manufacturer whose sign fronts the premises.
Bit of a con, really. The number of posts you see here where someone says "it's been back to BMW for servicing".
Let me tell you that BMW don't service cars any more than Ford, VW, etc.
All that's happened is the writer has taken his car back to the franchised dealer, who paid BMW for the franchise, so he can stick a big sign up and masquerade as BMW GB Ltd's own premises.
I make no real reference to any other maker in this post. You could substitute any maker for those I wrote, other than Merc and GM, as written, who actually do own their dealer networks.
MB only own a few dealers - although it's some thing like DC Retail, a subsidiary of DC-UK which actually owns them, so it's still kept very much at arms length from car building. Ford and Peugeot own a fair number of their dealerships.
The point is though, that the dealership represents the manufacturer. Customers don't care about the ownership, as far as they're concerned they're dealing with somebody who is acting on behalf of the manufacturer, which as close as they're normally likely to get to the manufacturer themselves.
Coil pack failure on VAG still seems to be an issue - my daughter has a 2 yr old Ibiza and that's had 2 failures (and the car only has 3 altogether).
As it's a 3 cyl it's undriveable with a coil pack failure, and the AA who come out as SEAT Assist won't replace at the roadside under warranty. Last time it happened, they fitted a spare, then followed her on a 60 mile round trip to the nearest SEAT dealer to were she's broken down to get a warranty replacement.
SEAT totally refused to replace all 3 coils, and I was quoted full list price (about £50) for a spare that I thought it would be good for her to keep in the car.
Makes the choice of her next car a bit easier when she can wipe the whole VAG range off at a stroke.
As it's a 3 cyl it's undriveable with a coil pack failure, and the AA who come out as SEAT Assist won't replace at the roadside under warranty. Last time it happened, they fitted a spare, then followed her on a 60 mile round trip to the nearest SEAT dealer to were she's broken down to get a warranty replacement.
SEAT totally refused to replace all 3 coils, and I was quoted full list price (about £50) for a spare that I thought it would be good for her to keep in the car.
Makes the choice of her next car a bit easier when she can wipe the whole VAG range off at a stroke.
To summarise waynepixel said:
My obviously non-faulty coil pack failed after 5+ years of use. Why can't I have a new one for free?
I'd just swallow it. Seriously, if it had been an inherently faulty part, don't you think it might have gone south before now? I've had CPs die younger than that just through random chance.
With regards to 1.8T coil-packs, Skoda issued a technical bulleting instructing dealers to replace all coils that fell within the affected numbers. As for the rest of the VAG group, they may operate differently.
Mine were all done but even the new coils are not immune, so IMHO 5 years out of a coil pack is fairly reasonable, given that i had 2 failures in 2 years on a car bought new in 2003.
Mine were all done but even the new coils are not immune, so IMHO 5 years out of a coil pack is fairly reasonable, given that i had 2 failures in 2 years on a car bought new in 2003.
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