RE: Don't chuck out your maps
Monday 6th November 2006
Satnav: not perfect yetProblems with your satnav -- or other people's as they guide traffic past your front door?
Don't chuck out your maps
Satnav routing problems to be investigated
Satnav: not perfect yet
According to the Telegraph this morning, the government is set to step in to regulate. The report suggests that the Department of Transport is looking to set up a testing programme that woud come up with a set of star ratings that would inform potential buyers just how reliable a system was.
The move is designed to address the problem of wrong or inappropriate routing instructions. For example, the story quotes residents of a tiny hamlet who are suffering a strong of cars and vans that get stuck in a rutted track, and another narrow country lane wide enough for one car being clogged by redirected motorists.
The problem seems to be one of an inability of the system to differentiate between types of road so that people expecting to save 10minutes off a journey end up getting stuck for ages in a tiny country lane.
If you've got satnav, it's almost certainly happened to you. And it just goes to show: you can't chuck out your paper maps just yet.
Discussion
Funniest one I've experienced was with a manufacturers Sat Nav system that tried to instruct me that the best route (Yes, shortest. No, quickest) from my house in Swindon to Brands Hatch was not to use the M25 to get from the west side to the east side of London. This system tried to send me straight into the metropolis, and slog my my through the heart of the capital! After a couple of miles with the "wrong way", "take next exit left" instructions as we went round the motorway, it got switched off!
it is not the be-all and end-all of getting from A to B... I used my el basic Tom Tom properly for the 1st time on Saturday, from deepest darkest Somerset to the far side of Northampton, and had no problems whatsoever, and even when muggins took the wrong roundabout exit, it quite happily re-adjusted the route to suit.
I was expecting to go every which way but the one I intended, so had AA routes etc printed, but alas, weren't needed.
In terms of the article, I agree it can causes problems, an example being at my last employer, where we'd arranged a road closure, which resulted in a signed diversion route which was suitable for everyone. However, HGV traffic with GPS fitted were using routes plucked out of the air, which you'd just about get a smart car through. Several smashed bridges, walls and trucks stuck later, we had to sign the alternative routes to ward off HGV's from using them.
I was expecting to go every which way but the one I intended, so had AA routes etc printed, but alas, weren't needed.
In terms of the article, I agree it can causes problems, an example being at my last employer, where we'd arranged a road closure, which resulted in a signed diversion route which was suitable for everyone. However, HGV traffic with GPS fitted were using routes plucked out of the air, which you'd just about get a smart car through. Several smashed bridges, walls and trucks stuck later, we had to sign the alternative routes to ward off HGV's from using them.
Its a bit weird going from using a car with SatNav for a few years, to suddenly being in one without Satnav installed - all of a sudden, you realise you've lost the ability to descern the difference between your ass and your elbow..... and you no longer own an atlas....
Funny thing is, I cant ever remember actually getting lost before I had Satnav available.... you just prepared for the journey a little better....
Funny thing is, I cant ever remember actually getting lost before I had Satnav available.... you just prepared for the journey a little better....
nitro-besty said:
In terms of the article, I agree it can causes problems, an example being at my last employer, where we'd arranged a road closure, which resulted in a signed diversion route which was suitable for everyone. However, HGV traffic with GPS fitted were using routes plucked out of the air, which you'd just about get a smart car through. Several smashed bridges, walls and trucks stuck later, we had to sign the alternative routes to ward off HGV's from using them.
Valid point- I get HGVs coming to my business & drivers often tell me Sat Navs cannot distinguish roads that are inaccessible to 7.5 Ton + wagons & the usual sending down 1 way streets wrong way of course.
Sat Nav on my 6yr old Jag also gets confused by large roundabouts with multiple exits. I just rely on own knowledge/map & sat nav only if lost. Whatever happend to old fashioned map reading & prepping before setting off as said by someone else??
My 18-month old Miotech 269 has been excellant. Certainly uses 'white' roads and has found me a number of short-cuts that I didn't know existed. Sometimes gives confusing directions on round-abouts with service roads (to supermarkets, services,etc.) - sometimes it includes them in its description of which number exit to take and sometimes it doesn't.
However, some of the suggested routes would be impossible in a truck. Does any sat-nav have a setting to provide routes suitable for trucks?
However, some of the suggested routes would be impossible in a truck. Does any sat-nav have a setting to provide routes suitable for trucks?
Is anyone else suspicious?
Yes - sure the routing could be better sometimes. But SatNav has achieved something "the planners" really didn't want - people getting to know about "rat runs" and alternative routes.
This strikes me as an opportunity for the Highways Agency et al to complain not just about silly routings - but also routings wherein a perfectly good route was calculated - its just that it passes the council chief's house! etc etc.
I'd MUCH rather there was NO regulation introduced - and that users of the system complained to the suppliers of systems. Let market forces fix this problem.
Once you have regulation - you have corruption. And frankly - this country has got too much of both for my liking.
Yes - sure the routing could be better sometimes. But SatNav has achieved something "the planners" really didn't want - people getting to know about "rat runs" and alternative routes.
This strikes me as an opportunity for the Highways Agency et al to complain not just about silly routings - but also routings wherein a perfectly good route was calculated - its just that it passes the council chief's house! etc etc.
I'd MUCH rather there was NO regulation introduced - and that users of the system complained to the suppliers of systems. Let market forces fix this problem.
Once you have regulation - you have corruption. And frankly - this country has got too much of both for my liking.
I use TomTom 5 on my QTEK 2020 with a 32channel wireless GPS receiver and since i've had it it hasn't let me down. I used it recently when i got lost a bit on the Northants Run and it got me to Champ Cars when i lost the others. It also works out a new route very quickly if you are stupid enough not to follow it's directions (as i am at times). However, i also carry an up to date large scale map and i use that too if i am not sure, just to see where i am overall. TomTom uses lots of white roads, works out great short cuts and i use it sometimes on foot when walking about in towns i don't know, use it on my mountian bike too as i have other navigation software i run for offroad excursions, and it's well up to date on Scameras (i do monthly updates). Great bit of Software. 10/10
Edited by scoobiewrx on Monday 6th November 11:16
Don said:
Is anyone else suspicious?
Yes - sure the routing could be better sometimes. But SatNav has achieved something "the planners" really didn't want - people getting to know about "rat runs" and alternative routes.
Yes - sure the routing could be better sometimes. But SatNav has achieved something "the planners" really didn't want - people getting to know about "rat runs" and alternative routes.
I regularly travel between Essex and Northants… generally doing the M25/M1 or M25M11/A14.
I see hundreds of cars with sat navs fitted, yet they're perfectly happy to sit in a queue, rather than re-route. It has now got to the stage where from virtually any junction on the M1 or A14 I know a rat-run around the traffic…
They ARE useful.
But to be honest, I get by quite happily (and a lot more cheaply) with a good high-res atlas and a couple of local Streetmap prints.
It's called having a sense of direction...if Pigeons can manage it without signposts, maps or a mileometer, I'm damn sure I can work it out WITH those aids.
And I can't recall the last time I got lost. Actually...scrub that...Wigan 5 years ago - they'd changed their postcodes and streetmap sent me the wrong side of the river to a residential area.
But to be honest, I get by quite happily (and a lot more cheaply) with a good high-res atlas and a couple of local Streetmap prints.
It's called having a sense of direction...if Pigeons can manage it without signposts, maps or a mileometer, I'm damn sure I can work it out WITH those aids.
And I can't recall the last time I got lost. Actually...scrub that...Wigan 5 years ago - they'd changed their postcodes and streetmap sent me the wrong side of the river to a residential area.
Whats the betting that sat-navs which also give scamera information are given a low or zero rating... Or more likely the government will use this to force scamera details to be removed from units.
The system in my '05 Lexus GS430 (currently for sale on Pistonheads
) is absolutely superb and never given me any problems - even counts the exits on roundabouts and auto-routes you around traffic or incidents. Recently on a trip to Bristol it diverted me off the Motorway to avoid traffic and my colleague travelling the same route arrived 2 hours later than me! (I was travelling on to Cardiff afterwards before you cynics ask why we weren't in the same car... 
)
The system in my '05 Lexus GS430 (currently for sale on Pistonheads
) is absolutely superb and never given me any problems - even counts the exits on roundabouts and auto-routes you around traffic or incidents. Recently on a trip to Bristol it diverted me off the Motorway to avoid traffic and my colleague travelling the same route arrived 2 hours later than me! (I was travelling on to Cardiff afterwards before you cynics ask why we weren't in the same car... ) Edited by john_r on Monday 6th November 11:36
I drive a truck delivering industrial gases, I know my way round the country pretty well, My new company provides me with a sat nav system. quiet often i find it says time of arrival for example is 14.00, then It says turn left and I think surly its quicker to turn right so i turn right, it re calculates then knocks ten mins of my arrival time. In my opinion for a truck driver if you know your way round it can be a helpfull device but if you have no idea where your going it could get you into some serious problems.
sprinter885 said:
Valid point- I get HGVs coming to my business & drivers often tell me Sat Navs cannot distinguish roads that are inaccessible to 7.5 Ton + wagons & the usual sending down 1 way streets wrong way of course.
There are route planning applications that will adjust their calculations based on a database of roadworks, size of vehicle, current traffic information and the needs of the deliveries and the driver's driving hours records. I assume they work quite well if properly applied.
But I guess the cost would be more than buying a portable sat nav unit so long as the unit lasts for more than a few months before being nicked or damaged.
The maps, common to many systems and just a few suppliers, are never going to be perfect in terms of roads and restrictions. Better than the governments records though which are unlikely to exist as a complete set anyhwere and which, due to their policies, are constantly changing.
Daily updates anyone? Such systems are already around if you can justify the cost.
When driving from London to Bicester once it took me off at an earlier exit than expected so i thought, great, a short cut...
It then took me down a nice long A-road, round a couple of roundabouts and then back on to the M40 at the next exit for a junction and then off again to Bicester - i guess even computers (tomtom) make mistakes sometimes eh!
It then took me down a nice long A-road, round a couple of roundabouts and then back on to the M40 at the next exit for a junction and then off again to Bicester - i guess even computers (tomtom) make mistakes sometimes eh!
Philbes said:
My 18-month old Miotech 269 has been excellant.
My 269+ has been superb in the last year. It was interesting to compare the Mio against the TomToms on my last event. The Mio took us from Calais to Montelimar pretty directly. The TomTom powered teams all went via Paris for some reason, which is slightly longer and 45 minutes slower.
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