RE: Daytime lights issue hots up
RE: Daytime lights issue hots up
Tuesday 14th November 2006

Daytime lights issue hots up

Could DRL lead to environmental damage?


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The arguments against current EU proposals to make Volvo-style daytime running lights (DRL) compulsory have just taken an environmental flavour.

According to campaigners against DRL, daytime running lights on a Volvo need 170W of electrical power but, after taking into account engine heat losses, mechanical losses, drive belt losses and alternator losses, they need about 970W of primary energy. The result, say campaigners, is that each vehicle with headlights on emits 0.25kg of CO2/hr.

Further, they argue that, if adopted, daytime lights will add 1.85 million tonnes annually of CO2 into the UK's atmosphere. The UK overall emits around 560 million tonnes of CO2 annually.

During 2005/06 the Carbon Trust UK saved 3.9 million tonnes of CO2 using an army of 250 energy surveyors. The use of daytime running lights will negate 50 per cent of these hard won environmental gains, said the Drivers against Daytime Running Lights (DADRL) campaign.

As other countries will be forced to follow suit, a decision by the EC to mandate daytime lights will have untenable environmental consequences across the world, said DADRL.

As a compromise, the EC has the option of permitting low power 13W non-glaring dedicated daytime lights on new vehicles but then intend to make the existing 200 million vehicles in the EU use full power headlights in good daylight, said DADRL's UK co-ordinator Roy Milnes.

For existing vehicles, the EC could allow the rarely used (and often misused) fog lights on many vehicles to accept 13W lamps.  On vehicles without auxiliary lamps, they could permit the fitting "by competent persons" of two regulation-sized light emitting diode discs.

Low power lamps would minimise the environmental impact yet provide a good degree of conspicuity, reckoned Milnes.

The deadline for requests for comment on the issue is Friday this week  -- see link below.

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Author
Discussion

timberwolf

Original Poster:

5,374 posts

241 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
I will admit a certain degree of Schadenfreude in that I'd been waiting for this.

As we all know, in the usual case of Nanny vs. public, eventually the public have to back down because they've got jobs to go to, lives to live, and beer to drink.

But now, the gloves are off - in the red corner is Safety Nanny, angry that drivers are still having to use their discretion and judgement as to whether lights are appropriate. In the green corner, Environmental Nanny is stepping up and counting the carbon dioxide.

Neither have anything more useful or more fun to do than this. Neither are used to battling against an opponent equally illogical, persistent and dedicated.

Place your bets, please.

SuPaSpArK

2,105 posts

261 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
What a great post..well done timberwolf.
Nail...head.
Supes.

mafioso

2,408 posts

237 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
I really cannot understand people who have their bloody lights on in the day! Sometimes even when wearing sunglasses! F***ing idiots! (And I'm not talking about Volvos or other) Why do they do it!??

mattyboy101

16,664 posts

241 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
Simple solution, tax them more to make up for the CO2, we may have global warming but at least the government will have more money to waste.

kawasicki

14,130 posts

258 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
they do it because stats say it is safer.

don't stats say lots of things!

good post timberwolf

shane

ewenm

28,506 posts

268 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
mafioso said:
I really cannot understand people who have their bloody lights on in the day! Sometimes even when wearing sunglasses! F***ing idiots! (And I'm not talking about Volvos or other) Why do they do it!??

It makes the low, small Caterham more visible to other road users.

robm3

4,930 posts

250 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
Oh dear, CO2 emmisions from using side lamps whatever next?
Compuslory thermal underwear for everyone?

Great post TW.

jackass

135 posts

282 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
ewenm said:
mafioso said:
I really cannot understand people who have their bloody lights on in the day! Sometimes even when wearing sunglasses! F***ing idiots! (And I'm not talking about Volvos or other) Why do they do it!??

It makes the low, small Caterham more visible to other road users.


It makes all cars more obvious, if you are driving out of bright sunlight it helps just as much as driving in gloom.

henrycrun

2,473 posts

263 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
If you cannot see in daylight then perhaps you should wear glasses.
If you don't know when to light up in poor weather conditions then you should not be driving.
DRL will not help Pedestrians, Cyclists, Horseriders and Bikers

Edited by henrycrun on Tuesday 14th November 12:19

von stig

882 posts

236 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
i find them more distracting than useful and im frequently left looking at the one tool that has lights on the goverment can stick this up their A**E

kurtiejjj

164 posts

240 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
Blimey it seems to be getting more awful to drive (dare I say life) in Britain each day doesn't it? First these stupid reports on climate to get more tax and now this! It's ridiculous, silly and whatever! Isn't there anything you as Brits can do about these silly ideas? Protest against the government or something I don't really get the impression from what I see on TV that a lot of people are happy with Bliar and his communist regime?

rchadd

123 posts

240 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
don’t these bloody EU bureaucrats have anything better to do?

is it really necessary to drive with lights on in the middle of summer?

Can’t drivers use their discretion in poor visibility – it’s really a driver education issue!

think I’d better buy some shares in a lamp manufacturing company.

i hear that government is going to outlaw baked beans next for environmental reasons


Edited by rchadd on Tuesday 14th November 12:33

turbobungle

576 posts

247 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
Get out of the EU and all their f*@king stupid ideas will go too! Only Britain ends up sticking to them anyway, everyone else chooses to ignore the laws they don't like!

mat205125

17,790 posts

236 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
ewenm said:
mafioso said:
I really cannot understand people who have their bloody lights on in the day! Sometimes even when wearing sunglasses! F***ing idiots! (And I'm not talking about Volvos or other) Why do they do it!??

It makes the low, small Caterham more visible to other road users.


Very true, and that's also the same reason why it is normal, and advised, for motorcycles to have their lights on at all times.

Would everyone having their lights on make the rest of the cars more visible, or simply mean that the small sports car and motorcycle blended into the background more?

MTv Dave

2,101 posts

279 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
170W? really? That's more bright than any home lights I've ever used! I thought the bulb carriers were only rated at something like 25W?
And I really can't believe it needs nearly a kiloWatt from the engine! That's just mad!

jester

Philbes

4,780 posts

257 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
Part of my drive to work is along a narrow lane under thick, low overhanging trees. At that time of the morning most of the traffic is coming towards me. I always put my headlamps on for this stretch. In the summer the contrast from driving in bright sunlight to under the trees serverely lowers visibility - despite this many drivers keep on their sunglasses! I want to make sure that they see me.
If research really shows that driving with lights on really has a safety benefit then I'm all for it - lives before a saving in CO2 emmissions.

Richnan

2 posts

232 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all

If you cant see a bl**dy car in daylight,without lights on,
you shouldnt be driving anyway!

lolaking

11 posts

239 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
Good post mat205125. I'm an avid biker and the EU made lights on motorcycles compulsory some time ago. My Ducati doesn't even have a light switch they are just on. The only decision I can make is high/low beam.

My concern with this ridiculous proposal is that vehicles that have a very good safety reason to run lights in daylight; motorbikes, cycles, Sinclair C5's, low sports cars, etc. will be simply lost in a sea of lights and therefore will have to find another way of being seen. Perhaps colour will be next for vehicle lights.

Nostrils

103 posts

250 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
I always use my lights when the light levels are low, when its overcast, raining etc. I will continue to use them until this government or the next no-mark administration makes it illegal!

What gets right up my nose, Fog Lights!! DRL are a breeze compared to some of the newer LED versions etc - When you try and indicate their mis-use you get nothing but gestures!!

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

278 months

Tuesday 14th November 2006
quotequote all
George Monbiot won't like that...oh, no.

Do you realise the enormity of this revelation?

The Moonbat will have to campaign for something WE want to achieve...

Holy...