RE: Road charging pressure grows
Tuesday 21st November 2006
More congestion chargingThe squeeze on road users in London looks to tighten even further, if the latest reports are to be believed.
Road charging pressure grows
Londoners to face more tolls from 2008?
More congestion charging
London Mayor Ken Livingstone has started detailed consultation on the introduction of a city-wide Low Emissions Zone, aimed at cutting emissions from the most polluting diesel engines, such as lorries, coaches, buses, and big vans.
The overall aim is the improvement of air quality, said to be among the lowest in Europe. The implementation could result in another road charge, to act as an incentive to operators to clean up their act. According to one report, it could go live as early as February 2008, and then be extended by 2010 to oilburning light goods vehicles and minibuses.
On top of this has come pressure for a Greater London road toll to pay for the stalled Crossrail scheme.
This £11.2 billion plan for an east-west rail link across the capital, from Maidenhead in the west into Essex and Kent in the east, has been in the planning stage for decades. It promises benefits such as lower traffic levels while making it easier to get across the city. Although a bill is going through Parliament to get authority to build the system, it's been held up since its inception in the 1980s largely by the huge cost of implementing it.
However, a transport economist has claimed that a road user charging scheme is required to net £3 billion annually to pay for both Crossrail and the capital's numerous other rail, road and tram infrastructure schemes that would otherwise remain “lines on maps”.
Imperial College professor of transport and infrastructure Stephen Glaister has produced a report, “Paying for a bigger, better quality London”, in which he warns that he sees no way to find the estimated £50 billon needed for new infrastructure in the capital other than road charging.
If you're still there, it's time to move out...
Links
Discussion
Whenever i see Red Ken's name in one of these posts the crosshairs on a sniper rifle scope come to mind with Ken's fizzog in view. Another excuse to squeeze more lifeblood out of UK drivers. When will he stop this greedy b**t**d nonsense. It seems to me that any initiative he puts into place doesn't actually ever cost him a penny, he just gets the rest of us to stump up the cash.
He is nothing but a total Tw@, and i really don't see him being voted in again. However...whats the betting the next encumbent just carries on his bad works!!
He is nothing but a total Tw@, and i really don't see him being voted in again. However...whats the betting the next encumbent just carries on his bad works!!
All the talk in the media about congestion charging. Doesn't it already exist in the form of fuel tax? Doesn't that penalise gas guzzlers and congestion already. Why not just double the tax on fuel? The whole thing is so silly! The green media types seem to back it though, public opinion is already one of resigned acceptance.
The green argument has replaced the safety argument as one which may not be argued with.
The green argument has replaced the safety argument as one which may not be argued with.
"No way other than road charging"?!?
Can't be that clever then can he if he's only got one idea. I can think of several, including making the people who're going to use things pay for them, instead of heaping more taxes on the motorist.
Problem with road charging as a source of revenue is that once it gets to a certain level, people stop driving and use the rail system you want to build, which is then inadequate AND insufficiently funded. In other words, this 'Professor' has no grasp of the real world, or of cause-and-effect!
Can't be that clever then can he if he's only got one idea. I can think of several, including making the people who're going to use things pay for them, instead of heaping more taxes on the motorist.
Problem with road charging as a source of revenue is that once it gets to a certain level, people stop driving and use the rail system you want to build, which is then inadequate AND insufficiently funded. In other words, this 'Professor' has no grasp of the real world, or of cause-and-effect!
Why do the London electorate keep on voting this man in to power knowing about all these autocratic decisions they can keep on expecting.
The Olympics was to cost £3.75 BN today the estimate is £8BN and its the London taxpayers who will pay the extra on their council taxes.
Next is to be £300 to park outside your house and £25 a day to drive in London , the zone expands massively in the next couple of weeks. This all on top of 83% of the price of a gallon of petrol is tax, £200 road tax and 17 1/2 % VAT on everything
London Turkeys keep on voting Christmas so they only have themselves to blame.
Best thing is to all keep well away from the place on a permanent basis its rapidly become rip off city.
The Olympics was to cost £3.75 BN today the estimate is £8BN and its the London taxpayers who will pay the extra on their council taxes.
Next is to be £300 to park outside your house and £25 a day to drive in London , the zone expands massively in the next couple of weeks. This all on top of 83% of the price of a gallon of petrol is tax, £200 road tax and 17 1/2 % VAT on everything
London Turkeys keep on voting Christmas so they only have themselves to blame.
Best thing is to all keep well away from the place on a permanent basis its rapidly become rip off city.
Does he really think that Londoners won't simply leave ? Businesses have no loyalty to geography and many are already suffering from the existing charge. Workers migrate to where the work is. And if he thinks the City is a limitless source of high-earners to pay for his toys, he should consider just how hard places like Frankfurt are actively trying to supplant it.
What a silly twunt.
What a silly twunt.
The more I read about London transport the more I want to move out. It's a shame it tends to overshadow what could otherwise be an excellent city. There is such variety and vibrancy it can be amazing. But this seems to come at quite a premium, especially if you like to drive, or drink, or use public transport, or have a roof over your head etc etc ... what the hell am I still doing here?!
! 
scoobiewrx said:
Whenever i see Red Ken's name in one of these posts the crosshairs on a sniper rifle scope come to mind with Ken's fizzog in view. Another excuse to squeeze more lifeblood out of UK drivers. When will he stop this greedy b**t**d nonsense. It seems to me that any initiative he puts into place doesn't actually ever cost him a penny, he just gets the rest of us to stump up the cash.
He is nothing but a total Tw@, and i really don't see him being voted in again. However...whats the betting the next encumbent just carries on his bad works!!
He is nothing but a total Tw@, and i really don't see him being voted in again. However...whats the betting the next encumbent just carries on his bad works!!
Like his tram scheme.... Whats wrong with buses? With a tram its a limited systems and costs loads to put in place. I can only presume that cars are not allowed along the same route.
scoobiewrx said:
Whenever i see Red Ken's name in one of these posts the crosshairs on a sniper rifle scope come to mind with Ken's fizzog in view. Another excuse to squeeze more lifeblood out of UK drivers. When will he stop this greedy b**t**d nonsense. It seems to me that any initiative he puts into place doesn't actually ever cost him a penny, he just gets the rest of us to stump up the cash.
He is nothing but a total Tw@, and i really don't see him being voted in again. However...whats the betting the next encumbent just carries on his bad works!!
He is nothing but a total Tw@, and i really don't see him being voted in again. However...whats the betting the next encumbent just carries on his bad works!!
I heard he was planning to remove the motorists' right to vote!
www.turbobungle.com
What really annoys me with these calls for road charging is that the tree huggers and the media conveniently forget that we have already had road charging for many years. Its called Road tax and other motoring taxes, Why will I have to now pay twice to use a particular road?. It has never been the case, but if they actually used ALL the money they got from road/motoring taxes on the roads we should have had the best road system on the planet. Its just that it gets wasted on the crap social schemes, buying wasters, criminal and illegal immigrants accommodation and spending money and all the other nonsense these fools dream up. If only they were accountable, they would all be in prison on fraud charges. The people of this country don't need enemies, we already got them in place, in this government and its officials.
kawasicki said:
All the talk in the media about congestion charging. Doesn't it already exist in the form of fuel tax? Doesn't that penalise gas guzzlers and congestion already. Why not just double the tax on fuel? The whole thing is so silly! The green media types seem to back it though, public opinion is already one of resigned acceptance.
The green argument has replaced the safety argument as one which may not be argued with.
The green argument has replaced the safety argument as one which may not be argued with.
This is so true, why can nobody in government see this?! Why does our tax money go on trying to figure out fair (or unfair depending on your point of view) road-use charging schemes when the simplest way already exists. Bigger engine, more fuel, more tax: less efficient engine, more fuel, more tax: driving further or for longer, more fuel, more tax. C'mon Ken it's not rocket science! Of course I don't want higher taxes on driving but if you're going to stiff us you may as well do it in the least bureaucratic way possible and save a bit of our cash!
Stace.
stace3610 said:
...but if you're going to stiff us you may as well do it in the least bureaucratic way possible and save a bit of our cash!
Stace.
Stace.
But this isn't about fair, or simple, taxation. More fuel duty is of no use to the Newt-lover as that revenue goes to the Chancellor, and Ken doesn't want to swallow his pride and go cap-in-hand to Gordo, who doesn't much like him. So a shiny new tax is born, and damn the admin costs (it is us paying that too, anyway).
Sadly, now the lesson being learnt around the country is that any quasi-govermental beaurocracy can raise it's own taxes and the goverment will do nothing to stop them.
Australia is looking better and better.
r666 said:
Agree with all the above especially TOOFM.
I am working hard to save up enough to move my family to somewhere abroad (any suggestions!?) where there is some sense of reality, and where our every move isnt videod or tracked on top of the waste of government...
I am working hard to save up enough to move my family to somewhere abroad (any suggestions!?) where there is some sense of reality, and where our every move isnt videod or tracked on top of the waste of government...
Definately Spain.....I could go on all day about Spain, being Spanish i have an insight into the way of life and it is simply the best place to live in europe IMO. Forget France as it's getting just like the UK, and in any case it's full of French people. Germany and Belgium are as expensive as they UK but the Netherlands strikes me as somewhere quite appealing, they seem to have a good standard of living but i don't know anything about their politics and what it's like to live there. I hear the people are really nice, and although their weather is much like here after spain i would definately consider NL and then Scandinavia just because i like the people and their way of life.
That's my tuppence in TA
Edited by scoobiewrx on Tuesday 21st November 14:04
scoobiewrx said:
[Netherlands strikes me as somewhere quite appealing, they seem to have a good standard of living but i don't know anything about their politics and what it's like to live there. I hear the people are really nice
NL is so pro-cyclist it makes Ken look like an oil baron. And they've GATSOs too. Wouldn't be top of my list as a committed petrolhead...and their driving standards are IMHO worse than UK (see below).
As for the people...nice enough, more laid back than UK, but have NO concept of personal space...visited A'dam a couple of times and lost count of the number of people who bumped into us on the streets, making NO effort to avoid us...was like Regent Street at Xmas, except it wasn't that busy (if that makes sense!). And they tailgate like you wouldn't believe.
Italy sounds appealing. Spain possibly but I'd probably get frustrated by the 'pace' of life. Australia is as rabidly anti-car as the UK now, by all accounts...and they HIDE their speed cameras and speed-traps.
scoobiewrx said:
r666 said:
Agree with all the above especially TOOFM.
I am working hard to save up enough to move my family to somewhere abroad (any suggestions!?) where there is some sense of reality, and where our every move isnt videod or tracked on top of the waste of government...
I am working hard to save up enough to move my family to somewhere abroad (any suggestions!?) where there is some sense of reality, and where our every move isnt videod or tracked on top of the waste of government...
Definately Spain.....I could go on all day about Spain, being Spanish i have an insight into the way of life and it is simply the best place to live in europe IMO. Forget France as it's getting just like the UK, and in any case it's full of French people. Germany and Belgium are as expensive as they UK but the Netherlands strikes me as somewhere quite appealing, they seem to have a good standard of living but i don't know anything about their politics and what it's like to live there. I hear the people are really nice, and although their weather is much like here after spain i would definately consider NL and then Scandinavia just because i like the people and their way of life.
That's my tuppence in TA
Edited by scoobiewrx on Tuesday 21st November 14:04
I keep thinking about this question too. Where to go? I think if I were going to go through the upheaval it would have to be outside the EU to get away from the stifling restrictions, so although I too love Spain it's too close for comfort. Australia is as has been said also very anti-car. What about NZ? Canada is just 2nd-class USA so perhaps USA but that's not to everyone's taste. If I could find a job I love Iceland, but I'm not sure I could stand the cold winters. South Africa? If we can agree on somewhere, we could start a PH colony, declare UDI and get rid of taxes, speed limits and fuel duty
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