RE: Petition Congestion
Tuesday 20th March 2007
Inevitable...?The Sunday Times has revealed an interesting insight into the government’s thinking over the proposed road charging scheme.
Petition Congestion
Road charging scheme delayed, but for how long?
Inevitable...?
The information came to light in an undercover operation by a reporter into the world of private lobbying firms. Highlighting the close links between current ministers and the senior staff of a particular lobbying agency, the paper reported on a conversation said to have taken place between the current transport minister Stephen Ladyman and a former ministerial aide, Ivan Henderson.
Ladyman is said to have told Henderson that the “pay-per-mile” road charging scheme had been delayed after the support shown against the scheme on a petition. “The transport bill is now going to be delayed until after the local elections in May ... they don’t want that to be an issue before the elections so they’re putting that off, road charging” Ladyman is reported as saying.
The article goes on to quote the minister as highlighting Manchester as the chosen pilot area for the scheme, once things had quietened down.
So what does this tell us? That taking the time to sign a petition on the government’s website was worthwhile after all. And that if there’s a united voice, maybe there is a chance to influence matters. Just expect to have to do it again…
Discussion
The author has missed the point completely.
The governement has a record of delaying unpopular policy implementation until after local elections so as not to jepordise its candidates from a voting backlash. As soon as the elections are done, the unpopular policies get implemented. That leaves us with an unappy voter population that can do little to change the status quo due to the fact that you can only really make a change at the following elections (probably 2 years afterr the event).
The government then relies on the voter 'forgetting' the things that hacked them off in the first place, as in general terms, Joe Public has a relativly short memory span of such things and the media's attention will be elsewhere.
So in fact, any affect the petition may have had in this is simply alerting the government to dodge public opinion by implementing 'bad news' policy after the only chance the public has of actually stopping them.
Once the government has decided a cause of action there is very little the 'democratic public' can do about it, especially when the choice of alternative government is so small. (as in non existant)
The governement has a record of delaying unpopular policy implementation until after local elections so as not to jepordise its candidates from a voting backlash. As soon as the elections are done, the unpopular policies get implemented. That leaves us with an unappy voter population that can do little to change the status quo due to the fact that you can only really make a change at the following elections (probably 2 years afterr the event).
The government then relies on the voter 'forgetting' the things that hacked them off in the first place, as in general terms, Joe Public has a relativly short memory span of such things and the media's attention will be elsewhere.
So in fact, any affect the petition may have had in this is simply alerting the government to dodge public opinion by implementing 'bad news' policy after the only chance the public has of actually stopping them.
Once the government has decided a cause of action there is very little the 'democratic public' can do about it, especially when the choice of alternative government is so small. (as in non existant)
tony*t3 said:
The author has missed the point completely.
The governement has a record of delaying unpopular policy implementation until after local elections so as not to jepordise its candidates from a voting backlash. As soon as the elections are done, the unpopular policies get implemented. That leaves us with an unappy voter population that can do little to change the status quo due to the fact that you can only really make a change at the following elections (probably 2 years afterr the event).
The government then relies on the voter 'forgetting' the things that hacked them off in the first place, as in general terms, Joe Public has a relativly short memory span of such things and the media's attention will be elsewhere.
So in fact, any affect the petition may have had in this is simply alerting the government to dodge public opinion by implementing 'bad news' policy after the only chance the public has of actually stopping them.
Once the government has decided a cause of action there is very little the 'democratic public' can do about it, especially when the choice of alternative government is so small. (as in non existant)
The governement has a record of delaying unpopular policy implementation until after local elections so as not to jepordise its candidates from a voting backlash. As soon as the elections are done, the unpopular policies get implemented. That leaves us with an unappy voter population that can do little to change the status quo due to the fact that you can only really make a change at the following elections (probably 2 years afterr the event).
The government then relies on the voter 'forgetting' the things that hacked them off in the first place, as in general terms, Joe Public has a relativly short memory span of such things and the media's attention will be elsewhere.
So in fact, any affect the petition may have had in this is simply alerting the government to dodge public opinion by implementing 'bad news' policy after the only chance the public has of actually stopping them.
Once the government has decided a cause of action there is very little the 'democratic public' can do about it, especially when the choice of alternative government is so small. (as in non existant)
Agreed. Ladyman is just saying that none of their marginal seats need to be lost to this when they can just put it back a few months.
That said, let's see what happens in tomorrow's budget, as that may still give us reason to kick the
ers anyway! This is the not the only policy idea being delayed, or that has been delayed in the past. It would be interesting to keep a list of all policies that are being delayed or put on hold until after the next local or general elections.
Wasn't reform for public sector pensions shelved before the last general election and hasn't it been lying on the shelf since ?
PH article said:
So what does this tell us? That taking the time to sign a petition on the government’s website was worthwhile after all. And that if there’s a united voice, maybe there is a chance to influence matters. Just expect to have to do it again…
Ooh the voice of negativity.
Did Cromwell say, "Stuff that, I cannot be bothered?"
Did Maggie stand idly by and let the Faulklands be invaded?
Are we going to sit down like sheep and be dictated to?
Or are we going to keep on signing petitions and make our voices heard?
It's our choice - we can sit and do nothing and let the governments erode all our interests or we can fight.
This article is the biggest depressing reading I have yet to see on PH. Pull it out boys and put some positive spin in it. Surely the fact that the government has had to put back their plans is a small victory in itself??
See the positive in the negative however small.
SS HSV said:
PH article said:
So what does this tell us? That taking the time to sign a petition on the government’s website was worthwhile after all. And that if there’s a united voice, maybe there is a chance to influence matters. Just expect to have to do it again…
Ooh the voice of negativity.
Did Cromwell say, "Stuff that, I cannot be bothered?"
Did Maggie stand idly by and let the Faulklands be invaded?
Are we going to sit down like sheep and be dictated to?
Or are we going to keep on signing petitions and make our voices heard?
It's our choice - we can sit and do nothing and let the governments erode all our interests or we can fight.
This article is the biggest depressing reading I have yet to see on PH. Pull it out boys and put some positive spin in it. Surely the fact that the government has had to put back their plans is a small victory in itself??
See the positive in the negative however small.
Its not about negativity. Its about correcting the misrepresentation of the facts as reported by the story above. There is no 'victory' from the petition. As Blair said - 'not bovvered'.
A million people got of their collective arses and protested vehemently against the Iraq invasion (before it happened) by marching on London. The government however did not listen and progressed what surely has to be one of the biggest cock ups in forign policy ever.
tony*t3 said:
Its not about negativity. Its about correcting the misrepresentation of the facts as reported by the story above. There is no 'victory' from the petition. As Blair said - 'not bovvered'.
nice to see that sketch come back and bite him tony*t3 said:
A million people got of their collective arses and protested vehemently against the Iraq invasion (before it happened) by marching on London. The government however did not listen and progressed what surely has to be one of the biggest cock ups in forign policy ever.
Your right but it's a long battle, the embarassment the Toll Tax petition caused the govt along with the media uproar made a lot of copy and, hopefully, these polls will be used as a measure of public opinion. Any press is bad press for our govt when it comes to petitions
tony*t3 said:
Its not about negativity. Its about correcting the misrepresentation of the facts as reported by the story above. There is no 'victory' from the petition. As Blair said - 'not bovvered'.
A million people got of their collective arses and protested vehemently against the Iraq invasion (before it happened) by marching on London. The government however did not listen and progressed what surely has to be one of the biggest cock ups in forign policy ever.
As much as I take onboard what you are saying, they didn't take too kindly to the lorry drivers when they blocked the streets of London did they?
Blair may well give the impression that he is 'not bovvered' but of course he is, especially when the polls aren't in his favour for the election. I don't think most people have anything positive to say about him or his leadership 'skills', and the fact that he has put back the bill only relfects that.
C'mon chaps, did anybody really think the Government would say "oh - OK - large petition, we'll scrap that then" when they have three party support for it? It'll be a long drawn out afair, with the Gov't constantly squirming & changing details in the hope of finding support. Those of us who oppose it will have to KEEP on writing to MPs, & keep getting things like this in the papers & keep the "debate" simmering.
The delay should be seen as a victory - albeit a small one, as long as the protests & media coverage continue, the delays will build - no minister will want the implementation "on his / her watch", but they'll continue to talk it up as long as it's party policy.
Don't think they'll turn away from this, the best we can hope for is that it'll fade away over a period of years. Keep irritating you MP with it - it will wither & die.
T
The delay should be seen as a victory - albeit a small one, as long as the protests & media coverage continue, the delays will build - no minister will want the implementation "on his / her watch", but they'll continue to talk it up as long as it's party policy.
Don't think they'll turn away from this, the best we can hope for is that it'll fade away over a period of years. Keep irritating you MP with it - it will wither & die.
T
apache said:
tony*t3 said:
Its not about negativity. Its about correcting the misrepresentation of the facts as reported by the story above. There is no 'victory' from the petition. As Blair said - 'not bovvered'.
nice to see that sketch come back and bite himCan anybody do a quick editing job and put something on YouTube?
ingrowtn said:
Speaking as a Mancunian, bring on the petitions and demonstrations.
Perhaps we should "make" it an agenda in the local elections and force the issue into the open.
Perhaps we should "make" it an agenda in the local elections and force the issue into the open.
Of course! as soon as some prospective votee turns up on your doorstep asking for your support, ask pointed questions & make it clear you will not be voting for any party that supports the toll tax. The word WILL filter up the chain. If these people think that support for toll tax = a return to the day job & working for-a-living, the idea will die.
vladd said:
And another thing. The estimated cost is £64 Billion. However, given the usual cost spiral that is associated with government projects, what do we estimate the final cost will be?
Usually it can be doubled or tripled, it seems. Nice, eh? I think everyone needs to go out and buy a copy of 'V for Vendetta'...
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