Norway is forbidding normal fuel car's
Discussion
thunderbelmont said:
I think it's a bloody good idea.
Norway are thinking outside of the box when it comes to reducing fossil fuel consumption.
Our government wouldn't dare do something like that, they love the revenue from the oil too much.
I absolutely agree. Norway are thinking outside of the box when it comes to reducing fossil fuel consumption.
Our government wouldn't dare do something like that, they love the revenue from the oil too much.
The motorist must be the highest taxed group in this Sceptered Isle, and as such would have the biggest political voice, (if they wanted it).
Despite this governments hidden laws and bills it would still be possible to bring the country to its knees within days if we all stopped buying Petrol!
Therefore starving them of tax.
If they follow Norways lead here, I for one, would be happy to run on ethanol.
Roy
P100 said:
thunderbelmont said:
I think it's a bloody good idea.
Norway are thinking outside of the box when it comes to reducing fossil fuel consumption.
Our government wouldn't dare do something like that, they love the revenue from the oil too much.
I absolutely agree. Norway are thinking outside of the box when it comes to reducing fossil fuel consumption.
Our government wouldn't dare do something like that, they love the revenue from the oil too much.
The motorist must be the highest taxed group in this Sceptered Isle, and as such would have the biggest political voice, (if they wanted it).
Despite this governments hidden laws and bills it would still be possible to bring the country to its knees within days if we all stopped buying Petrol!
Therefore starving them of tax.
If they follow Norways lead here, I for one, would be happy to run on ethanol.
Roy
When we say "running on ethanol", it'll be E85 which is 15% guzzoline, simply because conventional engines would be a bitch to start on pure ethanol without a starter what whizzed it over at 2000rpm or thereabouts.
Morrisons are flogging E85 at their supermarket pumps in some areas, and are rolling it out across their estate.
Shell are close to committed to rolling out E85 pumps in the near future.
BP and ESSO are following suit - Esso probably faster because their tie-up with Greenergy.
To achieve the CO2 targets that the Government has committed itself to, they could change the spec of unleaded from E5 (as it is now) to E15 or E20. Most cars could run on a 20% blend of bio-ethanol with little or no modifications. I feel that over 20%, you'd need to consider replacing the fuel lines with stainless steel, removing all rubber from the fuel system (Ethanol eats rubber!)
With a 20% blend of Bio-ethanol, you immediately reduce the fossil fuel CO2 emissions by 15% over current levels (for motor transport).
Make all of those red tins, and black slugs in the capital run on Bio-Diesel, which would not only be good for the air quality, it would be good for the buildings - no more black soot particulates.
So much they could do, if they wanted to.
If the government decree that it will happen, then the fuel companies will roll out the pumps.
And to save the environment further, ban all Toyota Pius's and Lexus hybrids. Those half-tonne nasty batteries will need replacing ever 5-7 years, and they are very very toxic and very nasty for the environment, out weiging anything that they might achieve by running on electrickery with no infernal combustion engine running.
I can't wait for the MrFusion home energy reactor. 1.21 Gigawatts from a couple of old banana skins and the dregs from a 7up tin.
Morrisons are flogging E85 at their supermarket pumps in some areas, and are rolling it out across their estate.
Shell are close to committed to rolling out E85 pumps in the near future.
BP and ESSO are following suit - Esso probably faster because their tie-up with Greenergy.
To achieve the CO2 targets that the Government has committed itself to, they could change the spec of unleaded from E5 (as it is now) to E15 or E20. Most cars could run on a 20% blend of bio-ethanol with little or no modifications. I feel that over 20%, you'd need to consider replacing the fuel lines with stainless steel, removing all rubber from the fuel system (Ethanol eats rubber!)
With a 20% blend of Bio-ethanol, you immediately reduce the fossil fuel CO2 emissions by 15% over current levels (for motor transport).
Make all of those red tins, and black slugs in the capital run on Bio-Diesel, which would not only be good for the air quality, it would be good for the buildings - no more black soot particulates.
So much they could do, if they wanted to.
If the government decree that it will happen, then the fuel companies will roll out the pumps.
And to save the environment further, ban all Toyota Pius's and Lexus hybrids. Those half-tonne nasty batteries will need replacing ever 5-7 years, and they are very very toxic and very nasty for the environment, out weiging anything that they might achieve by running on electrickery with no infernal combustion engine running.
I can't wait for the MrFusion home energy reactor. 1.21 Gigawatts from a couple of old banana skins and the dregs from a 7up tin.
Has anyone tried running a classic engine on E85 with lead substitute added as my TVRs havn't even moved onto unleaded yet or would the ethenol destroy parts of the fuel system. Also my Taimar has a foam filled tank fitted in the late 80s, does anyone know if the foam filling would be attacked.
They're massively ahead of us on looking for ways to reduce fossil fuel usage without shitting on everyone's quality of life, but there you have the difference between government with a societal conscience, and the lot we've been left with who care only about the wellbeing of themselves and a few select friends, regardless of what happens to the rest of the country.
It's the kind of thing you'd never see here, one of the biggest arguments of the anti-car lobby (pollution, limited resources, etc.) would implode overnight, remember they don't want solutions they want a fight.
OPEC are already rattling sabres and shooting across the bows, apparently if the world starts using biofuels the price of drilled oil will go up - oh really? - which is a threat to any would-be monopoly-breakers if ever there was one.
It's the kind of thing you'd never see here, one of the biggest arguments of the anti-car lobby (pollution, limited resources, etc.) would implode overnight, remember they don't want solutions they want a fight.
OPEC are already rattling sabres and shooting across the bows, apparently if the world starts using biofuels the price of drilled oil will go up - oh really? - which is a threat to any would-be monopoly-breakers if ever there was one.
Timberwolf said:
They're massively ahead of us on looking for ways to reduce fossil fuel usage without shitting on everyone's quality of life, but there you have the difference between government with a societal conscience, and the lot we've been left with who care only about the wellbeing of themselves and a few select friends, regardless of what happens to the rest of the country.
.
Do you think they don't have road tolls, fuel tax, annual road tax, vehicle purchase tax in Norway? Cars in Norway are twice the UK price..
herewego said:
Timberwolf said:
They're massively ahead of us on looking for ways to reduce fossil fuel usage without shitting on everyone's quality of life, but there you have the difference between government with a societal conscience, and the lot we've been left with who care only about the wellbeing of themselves and a few select friends, regardless of what happens to the rest of the country.
.
Do you think they don't have road tolls, fuel tax, annual road tax, vehicle purchase tax in Norway? Cars in Norway are twice the UK price..
kfozz said:
Has anyone tried running a classic engine on E85 with lead substitute added as my TVRs havn't even moved onto unleaded yet or would the ethenol destroy parts of the fuel system. Also my Taimar has a foam filled tank fitted in the late 80s, does anyone know if the foam filling would be attacked.
Firstly, you'd need to replace your rubbery fuel lines with stainless, the Taimar's tank would be eaten alive by the Ethanol. ATL recommend draining their tanks after each race meeting to prevent the degredation of the foam, and seals.E85 has an equivalent octane approaching 110. To make best use of it, you should look at increasing your compression ratio. In the old days (when I was a little boy), they tell me that it was common to run racing motorcycles on "dope", ie: Methanol. If the engine ran a 10:1 on petrol, you'd raise it to 11:1 or 11.5:1 on Methanol. That rule of thumb still applies, though you may find that 12:1 is fine with a spot of engine management on a fuel injected engine.
Isn't the Taimar a carb engine? (3.0V6) If so, it'll need a fairly big increase in the jet size. You can expect to pour as much as 30-40% more fuel into the engine, though you can get a big chunk more power back in return.
The easiest engines to make work on E85 are turbocharged, with management systems that have good knock sensing, ie: can be set for E85, but will lean it off, and back off the timing when running on guzzoline (how Saab have done it).
Great, no more fossile fuels used...and what then? Electric cars...great, more coal burnt and more nuclear waste....bio ethanol? Guys, already today, we have a massive water problem on this planet. Bio-ethanol is a massive step in the wrong direction...
What about wind-powered cars...land-jachts, kind of
What about wind-powered cars...land-jachts, kind of
bio-ethanol has a long way to go before it's a good idea, certainly in terms of CO2. bio-diesel is a little better but not much. the only reason biofuels are getting so much exposure is because governments are pushing it. and trust me they aren't pushing it cos it's actually going to save the planet, they are pushing so that they can be seen to be doing to something green.
skinny said:
bio-ethanol has a long way to go before it's a good idea, certainly in terms of CO2. bio-diesel is a little better but not much. the only reason biofuels are getting so much exposure is because governments are pushing it. and trust me they aren't pushing it cos it's actually going to save the planet, they are pushing so that they can be seen to be doing to something green.
It looks as though there won't be much available anyway so we need to slash consumption.Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff