US Senate Pass "More Mileage" Bill
Discussion
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
Los Angeles said:
Therefore, 35mpg in US money is 40mph in English.
That means that the manufacturers will have a shedload of work to do to achieve that.
Your Ford F150 with it's 1.8Litre Turbo-diesel.......
Dodge Ram LT4.........
Los Angeles said:
Now the Bill is passed manufacturers will suddenly discover innovative ways to decrease gas consumption. And perhaps, just maybe, they will stop window dressing alternative fuel research and make a genuine commitment to the cause of safer cars, better built, more reliable, good to drive, and fit for the 21st century.
They won't. Trust me.They'll whine, moan, and then use grubby stopgaps to (barely) fulfill those obligations -- "smog equipment circa 1974" ring a bell?
CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards are nothing more than a governmental ruse used to bilk manufacturers out of money. Anyone know what the current CAFE standards are? 27.5 MPG. Raising to 35 MPG by 2020 is just an attempt to raise civil penalties from manufacturers as that is the end result for not meeting the standard. European manufacturers constantly pay civil penalties for not being able to meet the standard. It's the cost of entry to do business in the US market.
More complete information here:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview....
In additon to this "stealth tax" (Companies don't pay taxes, people do. Any penalties are passed on to the customer via higher prices) there is also the gas guzzler tax.
Bottom line, the only way that government will ever force the manufacturers to pay more attention to higher MPG cars is to prohibit them from selling in the US market if they don't meet CAFE standards.
That would be political suicide.
ErnestM
More complete information here:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview....
In additon to this "stealth tax" (Companies don't pay taxes, people do. Any penalties are passed on to the customer via higher prices) there is also the gas guzzler tax.
Bottom line, the only way that government will ever force the manufacturers to pay more attention to higher MPG cars is to prohibit them from selling in the US market if they don't meet CAFE standards.
That would be political suicide.
ErnestM
Los Angeles said:
Is there member of PH who is certain their car returns more than 35 mpg?
My Vectra can - but not on the "combined cycle". Neither of my sports cars do...even when driven like a granny.One reason the tiny cars of the sixties returned excellent fuel consumption figures was that they were light. These days legislation virtually precludes this given the requirement to meet safety standards.
Personally I see this as a REAL challenge for the mass market auto manufacturers - Safety, Lightness Frugality - these will be difficult to achieve. Then there's making all that desirable.
Thinking of desirable - I saw a Tesla Roadster at the Festival of Speed: now there's a "green" car I could buy. I want one so badly I can taste it. 0..60 in under four seconds.
That's green, baby. Yeah. I could use one for 95% of my motoring needs - the remaining being met by a Caterham and a Vectra Estate. 
Los Angeles said:
Is there member of PH who is certain their car returns more than 35 mpg?
I drive my 306 Hdi hard everywhere and it's returning 43mpg average, about. Steady it'd hit 48mpg I rekon.I think the key though is weight with a modern engine. Any decent modern engines of siginificant power are all in big heavy cars. The closest I can think of is the old Clio Sports. They were pretty good on a run with a big engine and low weight, so no reason why a very advanced big engine in a light car still won't make a fast car.
Doesn't a VX220 Turbo also do pretty well on the combined cycle?
Weight weight weight, thats what it's all about
Dave
Mass market manufacturers will be just fine.
They will pay the penalties, increase the price of their cars to cover it and then move on. Look at it this way, it is much easier for a mass market manufacturer to add, say $500 to the price of 1,000,000 cars sold than it is for a low volume manufacturer to add the price of $5000 to 100,000 cars sold.
The consumer is actually the loser here.
What drives the car industry is volume and consumer demand. If consumers demand more fuel efficient vehicles, then manufacturers will make them.
All government regulations come with loopholes, fixed penalties (that can be passed on) and the ability to get exemptions. Lotus was exempted from a great many US regulations for YEARS simply because it was a low volume manufacturer. In fact, the Elise is STILL exempted from certain bumper crash regulations. All you have to do is look at the big NHTSA sticker on any Elise sold in the US.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan
ErnestM
They will pay the penalties, increase the price of their cars to cover it and then move on. Look at it this way, it is much easier for a mass market manufacturer to add, say $500 to the price of 1,000,000 cars sold than it is for a low volume manufacturer to add the price of $5000 to 100,000 cars sold.
The consumer is actually the loser here.
What drives the car industry is volume and consumer demand. If consumers demand more fuel efficient vehicles, then manufacturers will make them.
All government regulations come with loopholes, fixed penalties (that can be passed on) and the ability to get exemptions. Lotus was exempted from a great many US regulations for YEARS simply because it was a low volume manufacturer. In fact, the Elise is STILL exempted from certain bumper crash regulations. All you have to do is look at the big NHTSA sticker on any Elise sold in the US.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan
ErnestM
Los Angeles said:
Is there member of PH who is certain their car returns more than 35 mpg?
A Smart car should do well. Some small city cars of the sixties can get over 35 mpg - oh, how we have progressed - not. From years of testing and driving cars I get the distinct impression manufacturer claimed, and official mpg figures, are often widely off the mark or fictional.
Current car is averaging 52 mpg and do a lot of driving - ford focus diesel estateA Smart car should do well. Some small city cars of the sixties can get over 35 mpg - oh, how we have progressed - not. From years of testing and driving cars I get the distinct impression manufacturer claimed, and official mpg figures, are often widely off the mark or fictional.
Edited by Los Angeles on Monday 25th June 17:32
Los Angeles said:
Is there member of PH who is certain their car returns more than 35 mpg?
On my 3 mile drive to and from work my Mitsubishi Colt diesel does over 40 mpg. The wifes Colt diesel does 50mpg everyday on a 40 mile round trip. My Little sister (the environmentaly friendly member of the family) gets 50 mpg when she uses her 1.1 Petrol Colt, note that she lives and works in Basingstoke.My 'proper car' more then makes up for it - I have been known to get rid of £55 of Shells finest in 91 miles
Los Angeles said:
mmrStig said:
The wifes Colt diesel does 50mpg everyday on a 40 mile round trip. My Little sister (the environmentaly friendly member of the family) gets 50 mpg when she uses her 1.1 Petrol Colt.
That's pretty impressive; makes hybrid cars look silly. I don't mind folk investigating the technology, as long as they don't rip away the passion during the process (Oh, and don't try to foist claims that nobody in the real world can duplicate)
Personally, I'd love to have a hydrogen car. Not even that troubled about the soundtrack (although a nice jet turbine sound wouldn't be bad) Just give me a good 0-60 time, ability to corner like it's on rails and something as curvy as Cindy Crawford...
ErnestM
I have a Ford F250 Pick up truck with a 7.3 litre turbo engine which returns around 12 US miles per gallon which works out about 14miles to the UK Gallon,
Not bad for a 3 ton truck with that size of engine. Ans that's wether it's towing 4 tons or not. I know someone with a 2.2 litre Toyota Previa which just scrapes 20 mpg, thats pathic, my wifes 1993 Jeep Cherokee 4 litre rolls home with 22 mpg ave and 25 mpg when shes feeling gentle, the thing also has the aerodynamics of a breeze block. I think before we start slagging off American engines, our tiny European cars and Jap stuff need to look at their returns compared to the size of engine and weight.
My mates Subaru WRC barely gets 15mpg and he drives like a an old lady on her way to the church fete.
Not bad for a 3 ton truck with that size of engine. Ans that's wether it's towing 4 tons or not. I know someone with a 2.2 litre Toyota Previa which just scrapes 20 mpg, thats pathic, my wifes 1993 Jeep Cherokee 4 litre rolls home with 22 mpg ave and 25 mpg when shes feeling gentle, the thing also has the aerodynamics of a breeze block. I think before we start slagging off American engines, our tiny European cars and Jap stuff need to look at their returns compared to the size of engine and weight.
My mates Subaru WRC barely gets 15mpg and he drives like a an old lady on her way to the church fete.
That is true, I generally don't believe figures unless I have proof of them myself, I have had my truck since Nov last year and I have been pretty consistant with my fuel consumption, after all, it's my wallet that pays for it. I am quite impressed that I get that kind of MPG out of that beast, not that I bought it for MPG in any case. My wife has had her Cherokee for over 4 years now, and again, I can't fail to be impressed with it, it's a damned good 4 litre straight 6 and pulls like a train, I must admit, I haven't managed my wifes amazing 25 mpg, I guess my right foot just dosen't allow it. I had another friend a while ago and he had a Range Rover 3.5 V8, unfortunately for him, he would struggle to get 15 to the gallon, whick makes my truck seem almost economical for a 7.3!
Edited by francush on Wednesday 4th July 18:59
Now remember . . . . . In its infinite wisdom, Congress gave the US automakers 12 years to make this happen.
Gee, do you think they can make it that fast . . . .
I'd rather see the standards raised in 5 years as we haven't figured out yet that it is OUR problem, not somebody else's, and we need to start now, not *tomorrow*.
Gee, do you think they can make it that fast . . . .
I'd rather see the standards raised in 5 years as we haven't figured out yet that it is OUR problem, not somebody else's, and we need to start now, not *tomorrow*.
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